Not Happy

[bt4421]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

 

[OrangeAl]

Do you really think Coyle is searching for a user?

 

[cuseman404]

If he uses us, that means he turned this program around which I am fine with. Let's keep someone who is loyal but just not getting the job done

 

[Toga]

Well which one are you? (sorry - punchline to an old joke)

 

[TheCusian]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company. The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced. I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years. I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position. Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

Wait it out and see before you jump to conclusions. Way too early to give up.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's awful easy to be loyal when no one else is offering you a job.

 

[MadNY3]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

I hope we get someone equipped to succeed in the job. That is the best thing he can do for the University, the community and the program.

 

[orangenirvana]

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

 

[jekelish]

Really good job, just immediately suggesting that whoever gets hired is automatically going to be a "user" with no real interest in Syracuse.

Here's a newsflash:

Doug Marrone, an alum, wound up just using his alma mater to get an NFL head coaching gig.

Scott Shafer, who had ZERO ties to the University, would have been a lifer if things had worked out.

You have zero clue what's going to happen with any head coach. No one knows who will and won't decide to stick around. If Ed Orgeron winds up being the head coach, assuming he's successful, I'd wager he's a long term guy at his age. And while I don't think a guy like Frost is sticking around longer than 5-6 years, 1) so what? If he's in good enough position to take a better job, it means he's leaving SU in better shape, and 2) you never know.

Just assuming everyone is a "user" at this point is ridiculous. You're putting wild assumptions on a group of men you're more or less unfamiliar with, and have no clue what is going on in their heads at this point.

In conclusion, your honor: settle the hell down and actually wait to see what happens first before you break out the jump to conclusions mat.

 

[Bayside44]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

Scott Shafer should be massively loyal to Syracuse - it's the only P5 school that would pay him over a million dollars to be HC.

He wasn't a good HC, he made bad decisions in games, demonstrated a lack of discipline on the field, and other things that have been debated. It's time for a change.

I'm amazed at people lobbying for a guy with back to back 3 win seasons.

 

[Rocco]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

One of the hardest parts about letting Shafer go is that he could've been THE guy for many, many years to come had it panned out. Unfortunately, Syracuse is not a destination coaching job and we all just need to accept that. Unless the BOT opens up checkbook about 3x what is currently doing, no chance we would be able to hang on to someone who is successful here. The college football environment is so incredibly competitive and schools are pulling out all of the stops to get the best coaches available, regardless of cost. I slightly disagree with the argument that then we would be in better shape with a "stepper" or "user" because we would then have to find another HC, who could then turn out to be a flop and we're back to square one.

I want to see consistency and I hope that if Coyle's hire turns out to be a success, that Syverud and the BoT, give him the green light to greatly increase the terms of the deal via extension. I do not want to be a stepping school, but we will be until we get serious financially about where we're headed.

 

[CNY in Miami]

I agree with BT SS deserved one more year, SU is on a coach merry go round and the only way to get off is give the coach enough time to succeed. SS was the guy.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I mean, set low enough expectations and you'll never be disappointed, amirite?

 

[VirginiaOrange]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

This is major college football. This is not a management trainee program. If after 3 years - in your words - SS still has a good amount of room for improvement and in a couple of more years he MIGHT have grown into the position - he had to go.

What company hires any of us and after 3 years of us sucking decides to give us a few more years hoping that we grow into our job.

Nice guy - terrible (or at least below average) head coach.

And this is a higher stakes game than most of our jobs.

 

[tep624]

One of the hardest parts about letting Shafer go is that he could've been THE guy for many, many years to come had it panned out. Unfortunately, Syracuse is not a destination coaching job and we all just need to accept that. Unless the BOT opens up checkbook about 3x what is currently doing, no chance we would be able to hang on to someone who is successful here. The college football environment is so incredibly competitive and schools are pulling out all of the stops to get the best coaches available, regardless of cost. I slightly disagree with the argument that then we would be in better shape with a "stepper" or "user" because we would then have to find another HC, who could then turn out to be a flop and we're back to square one.

I want to see consistency and I hope that if Coyle's hire turns out to be a success, that Syverud and the BoT, give him the green light to greatly increase the terms of the deal via extension. I do not want to be a stepping school, but we will be until we get serious financially about where we're headed.

It's actually tragic it didn't work out. We had an opportunity with Shafer to have a Boeheim or Coach P type situation with consistency and continuity. And he was a fantastic character guy to boot. Unfortunately, it just didn't work out on the field where it counts most. I'm saddened by that but this move had to be made.

In a lot of respects, Terrel Hunt and Shafer had a direct link to one another and both of their inability to improve on the field was ultimately the downfall for the Shafer regime.

 

[CNY in Miami]

Terrel Hunt didn't improve on the field? He hasn't played in two years, HCSS has had freshman ar QB for two years, that's why firing him makes no sense.

 

[tep624]

Terrel Hunt didn't improve on the field? He hasn't played in two years, HCSS has had freshman ar QB for two years, that's why firing him makes no sense.

Terrel Hunt regressed last year prior to the injury and this year threw an INT against URI of all opponents before getting injured again. So no, he didn't improve on the field even when he was healthy.

 

[Statesman1]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

That's the spirit!

 

[qdawgg]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

Or you can view it the way a girl I used to be friends with looked at the world.

"He's not using me, I'm using him". So if you look at it like were using him, it'll make you feel better.

 

[billsin01]

Was so pulling for coach and his staff and definitely believe he deserved one more year to show something. Whats done is done. We wish him the best and thank him for the many good things he did do. He certainly did not leave the cupboards empty. Should the new staff have some first year success, they will owe much of it to HCSS and company.

The thing that is bothering me even more now, is the fact that I think I'm going to be even more disappointed when the new hire is announced.

I just cant get excited about a coach who will use the university, use our storied program, use the young men, use the fans, and use the community. Someone who has no passion for Syracuse, just himself and his future. I fear who we get will either not perform well and we'll pushing the reset button all over again in three years, or will fare well enough that we'll be pushing the rest button all over again in three years.

I tired of this, and want stability. I thought we had a real chance at that. Yes, SS had a good amount of room for improvement, but his upside was better and given a couple more more seasons and small changes, and I think he would have grown into the position.

Oh, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we can get a HC who is not any of the above, and one who doesn't think defense is an after thought. sorry, but I'm just not too optimistic at this point.

A couple of points need to be made here relative to the simplistic ways people talk about choosing a head coaching candidate -- in other words should we get a 'user' or a 'lifer.' (second only to to 'should we get a recruiter or a guy who can coach them up?' among coaching hire pet peeves, IMO).

1) SU will likely command more 'loyalty' if it buys it. In other words, part of the reason a coach runs off to Ohio State after two years is because Ohio State pays him $38M, buys him a house, pays for his wife's implants, buys him a team of Chinese workers to build him his own personalized iPhone ... Point is, if SU wants to pay, they can likely make the decision to leave at the very least much more difficult.

2) This is a hard job. Probably the biggest compliment I'll pay Shafer the head coach -- who seemed like a good guy and was a great defensive coordinator -- is that he was faced with a big job. This is a program that will simply always have a more difficult hill to climb than the blue bloods. It just will. But the bottom line is, you can't control those types of things. To argue that some coach should move from wherever he lives (even if he spent time in CNY at some point) and jump in head first, vowing to never leave the university unless kicked out on his keyster, is not only unfair to said coach, it's absolutely insane to suggest. A guy comes here, wins a bunch of games and some huge programs are going to come calling and try to woo him. To suggest there's anything wrong with that is bizarrely naive.

3) To get courted by the big boys, you have to earn it. Say what you will about DM -- and perhaps most if not all of it is deserved -- but he took an absolute disaster of a program, righted the ship quickly and looked to have the trajectory pointing upward as he was walking out the door. What he did here was legitimately short of remarkable, but it was a really, really solid job and he clearly had some fans in the NFL. If a coach comes here and gets hired away by, for the sake of argument, Texas, it means he will have won a BOATLOAD of games in three or four years. Was he using us? I'll answer that later. But whatever your answer to that question, if a guy walks through the door next season and has us with back-to-back double-digit win seasons and two impressive bowl appearances by 2019, not a soul here should begrudge him for taking a Texas-type job. And, for the record, it's up to the university to fight for it's coach.

4) Is a coach 'using' a university anything other than status quo for college athletics these days? It's funny to me that people get upset about this based on some sort of 'purity of program' type theory. Yet the program they are so concerned is getting used, sold it's soul to leave a conference it not only helped to found, but put on the map and, quite literally, was at the heart of geographically. I mean, I have no major qualm with it, but let's be clear -- this university decided it should be part of a traditionally southern conference for no particular reason other than a few extra mill. To act like there is some sort of sanctity in this program or to act like we're any different from Toledo an FCS team or a Florida State (which is to say a desperately money-hungry program) is absurd.

 

[billsin01]

I agree with BT SS deserved one more year, SU is on a coach merry go round and the only way to get off is give the coach enough time to succeed. SS was the guy.

Based on what? Listen, I'm not out for blood on head coaches. I think they have a tough job, but there comes a point where after three years you need to be able to point to something, right? Some sort of a sign that things are truly headed in the right direction. other than playing a lot of young guys -- which does not in any way, shape or form guarantee wins next year or in 2017 -- what would you point to that Shafer did to justify another year? I'm not saying it would have been absurd but if you don't have something to hang your hat on, it's pretty difficult to make the case you got screwed.

 

[cuseguy]

Shafer made the mistake of winning a bowl game in his first year as coach.

If he reversed things, he'd be here next year.

 

[qdawgg]

Shafer made the mistake of winning a bowl game in his first year as coach.

If he reversed things, he'd be here next year.

Unfortunately for him, his trajectory was pointing down.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I have no major qualm with it, but let's be clear -- this university decided it should be part of a traditionally southern conference for no particular reason other than a few extra mill..

That's not entirely accurate.

 

[billsin01]

That's not entirely accurate.

That's fine -- not looking to derail a thread. My point was that $$ is pretty much the driving factor for every single decision made by athletics departments today. If you want to argue that or disagree, I'm OK with it, but to criticize coaches for being lured by huge $$ seems hypocritical if you're doing it from the perspective of the sanctity and tradition/history of your football program. Everything's for sale, IMO.