Not sure where to begin...

[Jake]

as someone has said before...we look like a bag of parts that don't fit together.

I don't think it's fair to look at just this year as part of the issue. We were one committee member or so from being in the NIT last year, so there's been a bit of talent erosion that's been masked.

However, I think we learned a lesson or two this year. I'm not blaming the players, but when you bring in a 5th year senior who was shopping himself for the "best chance to get to the league", you get a player who clearly stated his top priority.

Gillon in the other hand, is here because he wants to win. I love his attitude, hate that he's 5'8" trying to deny entry passes to the high post.

Battle hasn't figured out how to get to the rim consistently and Frank looks so lost. No confidence in his ability to run an offense.

The leadership thing is a problem. No doubt in my mind. I think the team dynamics are just a horrible mess. I think benching Roberson was a huge mistake, you can limit his minutes without publicly shaming him. He has checked out completely.

There is talent here, but little chemistry or "intestinal fortitude".

I don't know how it gets fixed. We run a unique system that requires buy-in and repetition. Hard to make that work with 5th year guys and guys who don't care.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Leadership is huge, on the court AND off the court (...coaches).

If I was Roberson, I wouldn't care either.

 

[Alsacs]

JB has always had one whiping boy.
He has hammered Roberson, he would hammer Scoop, he hammered Paul Harris and Devo.

However what he has done to Roberson is just mean. He said he wouldn't play last year if he had anybody else. Well that really makes a kid who isn't paid feel good.
How about having the assistants develop the kid?
Roberson has stayed out of trouble and is the Senior on a team with no leader. Well it's obvious Roberson isn't going to lead and Coleman the other Senior isn't leading either.
We have no Juniors so we are leaderless.

 

[pfister1]

The leadership thing is a problem. No doubt in my mind. I think the team dynamics are just a horrible mess. I think benching Roberson was a huge mistake, you can limit his minutes without publicly shaming him. He has checked out completely.

There is talent here, but little chemistry or "intestinal fortitude".

I don't know how it gets fixed. We run a unique system that requires buy-in and repetition. Hard to make that work with 5th year guys and guys who don't care.

I don't like to count JB out on anything, but this is looks like it is irreparable for this season. My bigger question is how does it get repaired for next season and beyond?

Obviously Gillon, White, Roberson and Coleman move on, but it doesn't appear that we have adequate new blood coming in next year to repair the situation.

If I was Lydon looking at the situation and I still have a real opportunity to be drafted at the end of the year, that would really have to be a big consideration and it would weigh heavily in favor of leaving now.

If I am Battle, I'm facing a serious question about what the likely state of the team next season means for my future?

We've seen guys leave before because they don't really fit into our plans. I can't recall guys who would be big parts of our team leaving because they think what they have a chance to be a part of won't be good enough to keep them moving towards their long term goals. It seems to me that could really be the case next year.

 

[Funk Doc]

Yeah, I don't care that Robey played 38 minutes(or whatever it was) and only had 1 point. He is the only player that when he's checked into the game, plays the way we need these guys to play! He's our best defender and best rebounder! He has not been asked in three years to do anything but rebound and hustle. Now as a senior, he gets benched because he can't score! It's no secret that he has zero offensive skills other than a possible putback once in a while. He needs to play and play more in order to get checked in. Book it now...this team will not improve until Robey gets back into playing serious minutes. The other issue is PG play, and that mess I feel may not be fixable!

 

[NineOneSeven]

Last year Roberson averaged 8.5 rebounds a game (many offensive), while battling against some big time ACC players, while we had a shooting guard playing the wing and an undersized 4 (who was a freshman) playing C most games. But tell me Jim... "if you had anyone else he wouldn't play". Guess what? That's YOUR fault you don't have anyone else. And YOUR fault you have everyone playing out of position.

I get it- the guy can't shoot and has a REALLY limited offensive game. It's too bad. But don't tell me he didn't battle hard last year.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Yeah, I don't care that Robey played 38 minutes(or whatever it was) and only had 1 point. He is the only player that when he's checked into the game, plays the way we need these guys to play! He's our best defender and best rebounder! He has not been asked in three years to do anything but rebound and hustle. Now as a senior, he gets benched because he can't score! It's no secret that he has zero offensive skills other than a possible putback once in a while. He needs to play and play more in order to get checked in. Book it now...this team will not improve until Robey gets back into playing serious minutes. The other issue is PG play, and that mess I feel may not be fixable!

You said exactly what I feel about Roberson.

On the rest of the issues. If I'm JB, I focus on the defense. I tell Gillon/White/Frank that unless they play defense they don't play. I also move White to the 2 with Roberson at the 4 and let Gillon and Battle share the point. Gillon is too short, and Battle is a freshman. So both will struggle. On White, I tell him, you're moving to the 2, deal with it. And if you don't play defense you can sit...

 

[Fly Rodder]

I do think the NCAA sanctions really crippled the program and that the smart move at the time should have been to retire JB. It was never going to happen like that due to his stature and that the SU Admin was in disarray. But that should have been the end. Since the sanctions came out recruiting has steadily taken a nose-dive and talent evaluation has really struggled. The zone defense can be very effective with the right mix of players, but the focus on zone players over offense combined with the sanctions has just been brutal. It's time to stop putting short small forwards in the PG/CG position.

 

[PhatOrange]

as someone has said before...we look like a bag of parts that don't fit together.

I don't think it's fair to look at just this year as part of the issue. We were one committee member or so from being in the NIT last year, so there's been a bit of talent erosion that's been masked.

However, I think we learned a lesson or two this year. I'm not blaming the players, but when you bring in a 5th year senior who was shopping himself for the "best chance to get to the league", you get a player who clearly stated his top priority.

Gillon in the other hand, is here because he wants to win. I love his attitude, hate that he's 5'8" trying to deny entry passes to the high post.

Battle hasn't figured out how to get to the rim consistently and Frank looks so lost. No confidence in his ability to run an offense.

The leadership thing is a problem. No doubt in my mind. I think the team dynamics are just a horrible mess. I think benching Roberson was a huge mistake, you can limit his minutes without publicly shaming him. He has checked out completely.

There is talent here, but little chemistry or "intestinal fortitude".

I don't know how it gets fixed. We run a unique system that requires buy-in and repetition. Hard to make that work with 5th year guys and guys who don't care.

totally agree but what do you do with roberson? he gets a chance and then butchers an easy layup/dunk attempt, gets the rebound and butchers it again, then fumbles the ball away. lather rinse repeat. And it's the same for Coleman. they've both been doing this for 4 years.

Clearly no chemistry and Frank is lost. I think it was a bit pie in the sky to assume it was going to be plug and play. You nailed that JB's system is a lot of repetitions, a lot like Dino's is.

 

[RF2044]

There is talent here, but little chemistry or "intestinal fortitude".

I don't know how it gets fixed.

It really is a shocking turn of developments, for this collection of players. I agree with both of the statements clipped from your OP above. This team has very little heart. It also expends very little of the effort needed to succeed at the high major collegiate level. That's a bad combo.

My father remarked last night that in the 41 years he's had season tickets, this is the worst team he's ever seen JB field. Which is a travesty, given what JB had to say about the squad in the preseason.

To your last sentence quoted above--I don't think it CAN be fixed. There is something systemically wrong with this group of players. We've never had a breakdown like this--ever. Don't get me wrong, we've had some teams that have been less talented than others, but we've never had a group as soft as this group, or so willing to fold like a pup tent at the first sign of adversity. We've gotten absolutely rolled by some mediocre teams, and these guys haven't shown a lick of improvement since the first game.

It's going to be a long winter.

 

[JeremyCuse]

The sanctions are playing a huge role here. Without them this team likely has Thomas Bryant and Huerte from Maryland and probably another wing player as well.

Recruiting misses are also playing a large factor here. We haven't brought in a decent center since Rak. Staff should have known that Coleman is a shadow of what he was in highschool due to the knee injuries, the guy can't jump 6 inches at this point. So who do we bring in a project big man who clearly wasn't a D1 recruit who transferred and Chukwu who looks as bad if not worse. Where was the urgency to get a quality big before this year? I'll give the staff a pass about not getting a shooter with Malachi leaving unexpectedly after one year but its clear this team needs to get a SG or SF somehow for next years team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Lydon doesn't stay it's going to be just as bad next year. Brissett and Sidibe aren't going to be huge helps here in year one and there's not any impact recruits left.

 

[CousCuse]

Hopkins has a look I haven't seen before , really mad , like he has been told that the succession plan isn't cut in stone. If that's the case, then all the assistants would feel like they will be out as well . That seems to be how the team is playing, scared. Setting a retirement date for JB was not smart.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If Lydon doesn't stay it's going to be just as bad next year. Brissett and Sidibe aren't going to be huge helps here in year one and there's not any impact recruits left.

Agreed, its going to be imperative he comes back next year barring some unforeseen spring recruiting surprises. I think having Moyer coming of a red-shirt will be a big help, clearly he's not a big time shooter but having essentially a 4/5 star guy with a year in the system added to next years class not only helps on the court but will help prop up what looks to be a somewhat disappointing class for next year.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yeah, I don't care that Robey played 38 minutes(or whatever it was) and only had 1 point. He is the only player that when he's checked into the game, plays the way we need these guys to play! He's our best defender and best rebounder! He has not been asked in three years to do anything but rebound and hustle. Now as a senior, he gets benched because he can't score! It's no secret that he has zero offensive skills other than a possible putback once in a while. He needs to play and play more in order to get checked in. Book it now...this team will not improve until Robey gets back into playing serious minutes. The other issue is PG play, and that mess I feel may not be fixable!

Robey's problem is that he's trying to serve two masters at once.

JB wants him to focus on defense and rebounding, because that's his strength.

But Robey has other people in his ear, telling him that he has to score 20 points a game to get to the NBA. And the poor kid just can't hit a jump shot longer than 8'. Yet he keeps trying, and he keeps missing, and he keeps getting benched.

 

[Trueblue25]

I truly think, at this point, this is a very young/zone inexperienced team with a coach who's on his last legs at this point (which is OK, the man's over 70).

We are young

We aren't experienced in the system yet

Coleman and Lydon can only do so much to lead after discouraging losses.

Another senior, we desperately needed to step up, fell off the map entirely for reason that are up for argument.

We were bound to have a very down year like this after significant, reoccurring whiffs in recruiting. 5th years transfers do not pair well with JB's coaching philosophy, Wes Johnson was a once in a lifetime. The zone's a system to be learned.

CBB is cyclical.

This team will pull it together, but probably a bit too late.

We'll have wins that will encourage us for next year.

Hopefully Lydon/Battle/Howard/Thompson all come back.

 

[Newhouser]

We are an Atltantis Tourney run away from a 3rd straight year not in the dance. JB is going to be interesting to watch here. We are not going to have a good record this year, and I don't see next year being much better with or without Lydon.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The sanctions are playing a huge role here. Without them this team likely has Thomas Bryant and Huerte from Maryland and probably another wing player as well.

Recruiting misses are also playing a large factor here. We haven't brought in a decent center since Rak. Staff should have known that Coleman is a shadow of what he was in highschool due to the knee injuries, the guy can't jump 6 inches at this point. So who do we bring in a project big man who clearly wasn't a D1 recruit who transferred and Chukwu who looks as bad if not worse. Where was the urgency to get a quality big before this year? I'll give the staff a pass about not getting a shooter with Malachi leaving unexpectedly after one year but its clear this team needs to get a SG or SF somehow for next years team.

The staff has been playing with fire for years by slowing down on recruiting and not filling out the roster. They've been too tight with offers. Sanctions hurt, but only offering 10-12 guys with 3-5 openings is what leads to playing with 10 scholarship players. Chino, Buss, Kaleb, BJ, and Diagne were huge misses that left gaping holes in the talent pipeline. Other schools that are in the same class as Syracuse can rebound in one recruiting cycle, but Syracuse doubled down on their guys and philosophy. Promoting GMac to the lead recruiter for the 2017 class has been a complete disappointment. The zone can be a deadly defense, but the focus on it over offense and other basketball skills has been a failure that has crippled the team and program.

As for Malachi, if you as a staff don't know what his goals are as a top-30 McD AA who shot 41.5% from three in conference play, that's on the staff - not the kid. Same goes for Ennis, Grant, McCullough, etc. The staff has to give them reasons to stay and if they don't plan on it then make sure a replacement is waiting in the wings and not a walk-on with a scholarship.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Robey's problem is that he's trying to serve two masters as once.

JB wants him to focus on defense and rebounding, because that's his strength.

But Robey has other people in his ear, telling him that he has to score 20 points a game to get to the NBA. And the poor kid just can't hit a jump shot longer than 8'. Yet he keeps trying, and he keeps missing, and he keeps getting benched.

I really hope your last paragraph/statement isn't true, but I get the feeling you have inside intel on this. That sucks.

 

[PhatOrange]

The sanctions are playing a huge role here. Without them this team likely has Thomas Bryant and Huerte from Maryland and probably another wing player as well.

Recruiting misses are also playing a large factor here. We haven't brought in a decent center since Rak. Staff should have known that Coleman is a shadow of what he was in highschool due to the knee injuries, the guy can't jump 6 inches at this point. So who do we bring in a project big man who clearly wasn't a D1 recruit who transferred and Chukwu who looks as bad if not worse. Where was the urgency to get a quality big before this year? I'll give the staff a pass about not getting a shooter with Malachi leaving unexpectedly after one year but its clear this team needs to get a SG or SF somehow for next years team.

By quality big man do you mean a player taller than 6-9, 6-10 who can actually CATCH the ball and finish simple layups ? That's really all we need.

I think Coleman leads the NCAA all time in getting the ball taken out of his hands when he gives his customary 1 dribble set up. Between he and Roberson over their careers have probably missed, what, 100 bunnies within 1 to 2 feet of the basket?

We all know that good big men don't grow on trees, they're very hard to come by. I'd settle for a kid who can a) catch the ball and hold on, and b) finish a layup 95% of the time.

 

[PhatOrange]

Hopkins has a look I haven't seen before , really mad , like he has been told that the succession plan isn't cut in stone. If that's the case, then all the assistants would feel like they will be out as well . That seems to be how the team is playing, scared. Setting a retirement date for JB was not smart.

you can tell that just by his 'look' ? good grief.

 

[JeremyCuse]

The staff has been playing with fire for years by slowing down on recruiting and not filling out the roster. They've been too tight with offers. Sanctions hurt, but only offering 10-12 guys with 3-5 openings is what leads to playing with 10 scholarship players. Chino, Buss, Kaleb, BJ, and Diagne were huge misses that left gaping holes in the talent pipeline. Other schools that are in the same class as Syracuse can rebound in one recruiting cycle, but Syracuse doubled down on their guys and philosophy. Promoting GMac to the lead recruiter for the 2017 class has been a complete disappointment. The zone can be a deadly defense, but the focus on it over offense and other basketball skills has been a failure that has crippled the team and program.

As for Malachi, if you as a staff don't know what his goals are as a top-30 McD AA who shot 41.5% from three in conference play, that's on the staff - not the kid. Same goes for Ennis, Grant, McCullough, etc. The staff has to give them reasons to stay and if they don't plan on it then make sure a replacement is waiting in the wings and not a walk-on with a scholarship.

I think as you noted its been a combination of both recruiting misses and the uncertainty surrounding the scholarship losses due to the sanctions. Malachi is a prime example, he was 99% returning back for his Soph more year until the second half of the UVA game in April. At that point the staff really has no options other then a grad transfer or I guess a late JUCO. Normally they might have had someone lined up to come in but remember we were down 4 scholarships going into last fall that became 3, staff had to make sure they could actually have the room for these players if they committed and I don't think even the most optimistic Malachi fan had him leaving until after that game. That's where the sanctions kill SU we didn't have that spot already filled because we couldn't now we are left scrambling to basically get a 5th year grad guy over the summer in a year where there really wasn't that much talent available (White, Spike Albrecht, dude form Columbia etc).

Your right about the class with Buss, Chino, Kaleb etc being a complete mess but that was a failure of the staff identifying talent and bringing guys who can't or couldn't complete at this level. We also had to move some of them out to get under the scholarship threshold when the sanctions began. SU had a great record of hitting on kids just outside the very top be it Ennis, Grant, Malachi, etc, at some point we were going to start missing on some of those guys ie Kaleb, Frank Howard, Roberson, when you combine that with lack of scholarships to recruit over them and missing out on top targets the past two seasons this is what you end up with.

 

[CuseTG2003]

I truly think, at this point, this is a very young/zone inexperienced team with a coach who's on his last legs at this point (which is OK, the man's over 70).

We are young

We aren't experienced in the system yet

Coleman and Lydon can only do so much to lead after discouraging losses.

Another senior, we desperately needed to step up, fell off the map entirely for reason that are up for argument.

We were bound to have a very down year like this after significant, reoccurring whiffs in recruiting. 5th years transfers do not pair well with JB's coaching philosophy, Wes Johnson was a once in a lifetime. The zone's a system to be learned.

CBB is cyclical.

This team will pull it together, but probably a bit too late.

We'll have wins that will encourage us for next year.

Hopefully Lydon/Battle/Howard/Thompson all come back.

Don't forget Wes was a regular transfer who had a year to integrate himself into the program. Obviously he was a pro and light years better than White and Gillon, but the value of that year of practice can't be understated.

 

[Trueblue25]

Even blessed Jay Wright had awful down years with NBA talent in Villanova guys.

This shi- happens, we just gotta be the dominant fan base we strut around like and wait it out with undying support.

 

[CousCuse]

you can tell that just by his 'look' ? good grief.

Yes, the eyes always give it away. It does seem logical that Wildhack might have different plans, doesn't it. It is also obvious that there is a major problem there, something deeper than the usual team development issues.