Not sure where to begin...

[Cusefan0307]

As a program over time, I agree. But recently Villanova has been more successful. Jay Wright gets it done. I'd love him to be at SU. I just don't know if that would ever happen.

Last year. If we had the 5 years prior to him winning the Natty this board would have wanted Wright gone.

 

[tbonezone]

30 point loss at home to an unranked team. did st. john's have :
a. better coaching
b. better players
c. better system
d. more desire.

( if you selected (d) then you just de facto answered "all of the above")

 

[Doc5120]

Last year. If we had the 5 years prior to him winning the Natty this board would have wanted Wright gone.

The last 3 seasons they've been a 2 seed, a 1 seed and a 2 seed. Yes, they were bounced early twice, and people would have b*tched about that (myself very much included), but overall their regular seasons have been superior to ours. I absolutely believe he's a better coach than JB.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The last 3 seasons they've been a 2 seed, a 1 seed and a 2 seed. Yes, they were bounced early twice, and people would have b*tched about that (myself very much included), but overall their regular seasons have been superior to ours. I absolutely believe he's a better coach than JB.

You forget they were 54-51 the previous three years before they were bounced early. The last 3 years of the old Big East.

 

[Doc5120]

You forget they were 54-51 the previous three years before they were bounced early. The last 3 years of the old Big East.

I didn't forget that. I suppose recent history could be taken any number of ways. I should have specified - in our 3 year downward spiral Villanova has been much more successful than us. Clearly, CBB is a cyclical thing. I'm just hoping we start trending upward for the '17-'18 season.

 

[SBU72]

Yes, the eyes always give it away. It does seem logical that Wildhack might have different plans, doesn't it. It is also obvious that there is a major problem there, something deeper than the usual team development issues.

If Widhack has changed the plans, then SU will get what it deserves. If knowing who the next head coach is going to be hurts recruiting, what do you think will happen if the entire staff disappears. What happens to the kids they were cultivating.?

 

[suttree]

I believe it can be fixed this year...fixed in the sense that we are playing together and competing hard. It's going to take some heart to heart meetings with all the folks involved but it starts with JB being humble with the kids and building them back up. It's going to take time and we may not be capable of getting to the dance this year.

Tearing kids down has diminishing returns at any level. Coach needs to own that and he needs to own our decline in recruiting. We are trending down and everyone should be concerned about that.

The last paragraph above raised a thought that's been bouncing around in my head the last few years. It's always great to see a coach stick up for players, even if it means getting salty in the process (e.g., "Not ten ***ing games"), but the frequency and intensity of JB's rants--both to the press and his players--seem to have been on a rather toxic upswing. As some of you know, I've lived in Austin for most of the last 22 years and have followed the UT men's hoops program for a while now, and I've managed to obtain some insights from program insiders along the way. The book on Rick Barnes--apart from many people insisting that he could recruit like crazy but wasn't so great on Xs and Os--eventually became that he had become too much of a disciplinarian, and got far too negative with the kids--to the point where the kids just shut down. JB's incredibly negative comments about Roberson, plus what seems like an uptick in the quick hook factor, plus his furious, raging demeanor when addressing his doghouse residents, all leave me thinking that he may have lost this team just as we saw down here with Barnes.

There are so many other factors--including NCAA sanctions, recruiting strategies, player development, early departures, etc.--about which I know far too little, and which undoubtedly have some influence. I'm nowhere near close enough to the Orange nucleus to say what's happening with us, but there seem to be some symptoms that remind me, hauntingly, of the demoralization that I saw here in Austin just before Barnes departed for Tennessee. Here's hoping it ain't true.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Just because he wears fancy suits & has a full head of hair does not make him 35-40 years old.

No, but to some it makes him a "great guy." I hear this phrase so much when people talk about St. Jay it makes me want to puke. Never a mention of his recruiting violations 10 years ago for which the NCAA gave him a slap on the wrist. This was after he admitted to said violations while also admitting he knew they were violations and kept committing them anyway. But hey, he's a great guy. Nice suits too. What do you think would happen to JB under those circumstances? I'd guess a 5 year suspension and vacating 950 wins. Never a mention of Mr. Great Guy's Pitinoesque off the court issues either. Everybody just looks the other way.

I'd love him to be at SU. I just don't know if that would ever happen.

You can have Jay Wright. He's an a$$ and he coaches like Jamie Dixon. Thankfully your last sentence is 100% correct. Never.

 

[OttoMets]

... I think benching Roberson was a huge mistake, you can limit his minutes without publicly shaming him. He has checked out completely.

...

Someone else predicted this in one of the many lineup threads during the fall.

It should have been clear to anyone that Roberson doesn't have the makeup to handle a public demotion well. If he's a 15- or 20-minute guy, fine. But it was a clumsy and completely avoidable decision to take away his starting spot.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don't know - I think there's a lot of talent on this team. And maybe it's just me, but when you're a hall of fame level coach I think you should be able to switch out of your 'unique system' if the talent doesn't fit and still be a very good team.One that is capable of defeating a team that wasn't able to beat Delaware State or something called LIU Brooklyn. What exactly does he do for team USA since they aren't playing in his unique system?

Been saying for years- it's so much easier to adjust the system to fit the players than it is to adjust the players to fit the system.

It's called coaching and recognizing the strengths, weaknesses, and flat out raw talent and ability of each player.

 

[pfister1]

But Robey has other people in his ear, telling him that he has to score 20 points a game to get to the NBA. And the poor kid just can't hit a jump shot longer than 8'. Yet he keeps trying, and he keeps missing, and he keeps getting benched.

This rings very true to me.

I know someone who is either a friend of the family or a shoestring cousin. I periodically have discussions with him about Cuse and Roberson. He had started to sour on Tyler's experience at SU last year. This year he's been saying JB screwed up Tyler's development, and is making it worse by not allowing him any freedom to participate in the offense. I like the guy and understand that he has an emotional involvement that may preclude him from being completely objective so I don't try to debate the issue with him, but given his comments and feelings I could completely see where the Roberson camp might believe and be feeding Tyler exactly what you are suggesting. At some point reality should have kicked in and I think they should have recognized that he had a limited skill set and that he should maximize his college career on that limited skill set, but I think they choose to continue to dream big instead.

 

[Doc5120]

No, but to some it makes him a "great guy." I hear this phrase so much when people talk about St. Jay it makes me want to puke. Never a mention of his recruiting violations 10 years ago for which the NCAA gave him a slap on the wrist. This was after he admitted to said violations while also admitting he knew they were violations and kept committing them anyway. But hey, he's a great guy. Nice suits too. What do you think would happen to JB under those circumstances? I'd guess a 5 year suspension and vacating 950 wins. Never a mention of Mr. Great Guy's Pitinoesque off the court issues either. Everybody just looks the other way.You can have Jay Wright. He's an a$$ and he coaches like Jamie Dixon. Thankfully your last sentence is 100% correct. Never.

I never said he was a great guy or an @ss. The media seems to love him , but I have no feelings on how "good" a person he is. I think if we took a blind poll of people on this forum, more than half would be OK with Jay Wright being the next coach at SU. Again, it won't happen. Out of curiosity, who would you like to see replace JB? I'm just not sold on Hop taking over. I prefer a proven head coach. Wright would be toward the top of my wish list.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Don't forget Wes was a regular transfer who had a year to integrate himself into the program. Obviously he was a pro and light years better than White and Gillon, but the value of that year of practice can't be understated.

Then what the hell happened with Chukwu this last year?

 

[realorange]

Then what the hell happened with Chukwu this last year?

Wes was light years ahead of Chukwu in ability before he came to Syracuse.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I never said he was a great guy or an @ss. The media seems to love him , but I have no feelings on how "good" a person he is. I think if we took a blind poll of people on this forum, more than half would be OK with Jay Wright being the next coach at SU. Again, it won't happen. Out of curiosity, who would you like to see replace JB? I'm just not sold on Hop taking over. I prefer a proven head coach. Wright would be toward the top of my wish list.

It's fine being not sold on Hop. I get that.

I just think this board fails to realize Jay Wright isn't a perfect coach either. There is a downside.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Then what the hell happened with Chukwu this last year?

Wes was on the Big 12 All Rookie team, and averaged over 12 points a game at Iowa St.

Chukwu was a 2 & 2 guy at Providence. Not sure why people thought he would become the next Ewing.

 

[realorange]

It's fine being not sold on Hop. I get that.

I just think this board fails to realize Jay Wright isn't a perfect coach either. There is a downside.

But gee, he looks so sharp in his tailor made suits. I think people with a Kardashian complex like Jay a lot.

 

[Frozen]

Wes was on the Big 12 All Rookie team, and averaged over 12 points a game at Iowa St.

Chukwu was a 2 & 2 guy at Providence. Not sure why people thought he would become the next Ewing.

I'd settle for him becoming the next Patrick Ewing, Jr.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Wes was on the Big 12 All Rookie team, and averaged over 12 points a game at Iowa St.

Chukwu was a 2 & 2 guy at Providence. Not sure why people thought he would become the next Ewing.

I wish you had told me that before the season. I thought we had our next great big man.

 

[RF2044]

This rings very true to me.

I know someone who is either a friend of the family or a shoestring cousin. I periodically have discussions with him about Cuse and Roberson. He had started to sour on Tyler's experience at SU last year. This year he's been saying JB screwed up Tyler's development, and is making it worse by not allowing him any freedom to participate in the offense. I like the guy and understand that he has an emotional involvement that may preclude him from being completely objective so I don't try to debate the issue with him, but given his comments and feelings I could completely see where the Roberson camp might believe and be feeding Tyler exactly what you are suggesting. At some point reality should have kicked in and I think they should have recognized that he had a limited skill set and that he should maximize his college career on that limited skill set, but I think they choose to continue to dream big instead.

I remember hearing before Roberson's freshman year that his family expected him to be a one-and-done.

Not mocking them for that, I'm just pointing out that there was some belief inside his nucleus reference group that this was his path. So, imagine him coming back for a 2nd, then 3rd year, and now to have this happen.

Clearly, there is no way in hell that Roberson is going to play in the NBA, and thoughts of him fast tracking to the league were completely off-target. But I'm not surprised to hear insiders express dissatisfaction with how he's been handled.

 

[orangezen]

as tothe next coach any thoughts on Q moving over to the men as hc

 

[NKR1978]

as tothe next coach any thoughts on Q moving over to the men as hc

lol

 

[Orange Barrel]

I never said he was a great guy or an @ss.

I know that and didn't mean to point to you directly. That's why I said to some.

Out of curiosity, who would you like to see replace JB? I'm just not sold on Hop taking over. I prefer a proven head coach. Wright would be toward the top of my wish list.

Hop. People had the same doubts about JB in '76. Those concerns were legitimate then and are now too, but I think Hop will prove to very good. If we end up doing a search, I don't want Saint Jay. I hate his style of play and don't care much for him either.

 

[Doc5120]

It's fine being not sold on Hop. I get that.

I just think this board fails to realize Jay Wright isn't a perfect coach either. There is a downside.

No coach is perfect. If I could handpick a coach - I'd go with Brad Stevens. Young, intelligent, always seems in control. I just hope whoever it is succeeds!

 

[Knicks411]

I remember hearing before Roberson's freshman year that his family expected him to be a one-and-done.

Not mocking them for that, I'm just pointing out that there was some belief inside his nucleus reference group that this was his path. So, imagine him coming back for a 2nd, then 3rd year, and now to have this happen.

Clearly, there is no way in hell that Roberson is going to play in the NBA, and thoughts of him fast tracking to the league were completely off-target. But I'm not surprised to hear insiders express dissatisfaction with how he's been handled.

Tyler also had trouble getting academically cleared, which I'm assuming the family knew would probably be an issue, so I have to to wonder if that also played into possible expectations of a 1 and done; who knows how long he'll be eligible, so maybe try and have a good first year and go pro? Because like you said he was never going to be a 1 and done guy on pure merit.

As for this team/season, man i dunno. I didn't quite expect them to as good as the consensus maybe, but I thought this would be a very strong team, and I don't think I've ever been so wrong about a team before. And it's exacerbated by the fact that I really don't know where we're going from here.