Not sure where to begin...

[310Pigpen]

I think some kumbaya meetings are needed.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think some kumbaya meetings are needed.

Who is that????? Your avatar I mean of course.

 

[RF2044]

Tyler also had trouble getting academically cleared, which I'm assuming the family knew would probably be an issue, so I have to to wonder if that also played into possible expectations of a 1 and done; who knows how long he'll be eligible, so maybe try and have a good first year and go pro? Because like you said he was never going to be a 1 and done guy on pure merit.

As for this team/season, man i dunno. I didn't quite expect them to as good as the consensus maybe, but I thought this would be a very strong team, and I don't think I've ever been so wrong about a team before. And it's exacerbated by the fact that I really don't know where we're going from here.

You and me both.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's fine being not sold on Hop. I get that.

I just think this board fails to realize Jay Wright isn't a perfect coach either. There is a downside.

There is no perfect replacement coach. I couldn't name one in the NCAA that would both competently replace JAB and come to Syracuse.

 

[Knicks411]

This season has made me really glad I decided to bite the bullet and make the trek out to Chicago last year for the Sweet 16/Elite 8, I will say that...

 

[cuseinseattle]

This rings very true to me.

I know someone who is either a friend of the family or a shoestring cousin. I periodically have discussions with him about Cuse and Roberson. He had started to sour on Tyler's experience at SU last year. This year he's been saying JB screwed up Tyler's development, and is making it worse by not allowing him any freedom to participate in the offense. I like the guy and understand that he has an emotional involvement that may preclude him from being completely objective so I don't try to debate the issue with him, but given his comments and feelings I could completely see where the Roberson camp might believe and be feeding Tyler exactly what you are suggesting. At some point reality should have kicked in and I think they should have recognized that he had a limited skill set and that he should maximize his college career on that limited skill set, but I think they choose to continue to dream big instead.

My brother was a college basketball coach at a small division 1 school for 5-6 years. One think I learned from his experience with it is that just about every parent is like what you described. They have no ability to see kids weaknesses. I remember they had a kid who was a good passer and had really good court vision. This kid could not shoot to save his life and literally everyone from my own mother could tell this. I was talking to his parents and I almost said something about it and then his parents say to me, "I wish Ryan would shoot more. He was a good shooter in high school you know." I remember thinking my god are you blind. I told my brother and he just said almost every parent is like that.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

as someone has said before...we look like a bag of parts that don't fit together.

I don't think it's fair to look at just this year as part of the issue. We were one committee member or so from being in the NIT last year, so there's been a bit of talent erosion that's been masked.

However, I think we learned a lesson or two this year. I'm not blaming the players, but when you bring in a 5th year senior who was shopping himself for the "best chance to get to the league", you get a player who clearly stated his top priority.

Gillon in the other hand, is here because he wants to win. I love his attitude, hate that he's 5'8" trying to deny entry passes to the high post.

Battle hasn't figured out how to get to the rim consistently and Frank looks so lost. No confidence in his ability to run an offense.

The leadership thing is a problem. No doubt in my mind. I think the team dynamics are just a horrible mess. I think benching Roberson was a huge mistake, you can limit his minutes without publicly shaming him. He has checked out completely.

There is talent here, but little chemistry or "intestinal fortitude".

I don't know how it gets fixed. We run a unique system that requires buy-in and repetition. Hard to make that work with 5th year guys and guys who don't care.

You think White has been jacking up bad shots to enhance his resume at the expense of the team? I'm not seeing that at all. I see varying levels of effectiveness, but he's not a chucker like Donte, for example. He's not forcing shots unless it's obvious there's nothing else in the flow. I just think White needs a PG that knows how to run a team and to get a SG open shots. We don't have any sense of how to run an offense, so White suffers, as a guy who can't create for himself.

Agreed, on everything else.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

You think White has been jacking up bad shots to enhance his resume at the expense of the team? I'm not seeing that at all. I see varying levels of effectiveness, but he's not a chucker like Donte, for example. He's not forcing shots unless it's obvious there's nothing else in the flow. I just think White needs a PG that knows how to run a team and to get a SG open shots. We don't have any sense of how to run an offense, so White suffers, as a guy who can't create for himself.

Agreed, on everything else.

Yeah, I don't see White as selfish either.

I do see our primary point guard having 14 assists and 14 turnovers in our five losses...that is a problem...

White reminds me a lot of Southerland. Leave him open and he'll torch you. Face guard him and he'll disappear...and neither guy can really create his own shot...

 

[NKR1978]

Yeah, I don't see White as selfish either.

I do see our primary point guard having 14 assists and 14 turnovers in our five losses...that is a problem...

White reminds me a lot of Southerland. Leave him open and he'll torch you. Face guard him and he'll disappear...and neither guy can really create his own shot...

But at least Southerland was 6'8" so they needed someone out of position to guard him and really get in his face.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

But at least Southerland was 6'8" so they needed someone out of position to guard him and really get in his face.

Southerland was 6'8". White is 6'7". And they are both forwards...I don't really see a big difference...

 

[Alsacs]

In 2013 we had MCW, Triche, Fair and southerland and had a really crappy offense.
That D was the best of the last decade though.

If the offense was 10% better we could have cut down the nets.

 

[pearl31]

Southerland was 6'8". White is 6'7". And they are both forwards...I don't really see a big difference...

no difference other than JS was athletic and could defend :noidea:

 

[Forza Azzurri]

no difference other than JS was athletic and could defend :noidea:

My point was about what type of offensive players they are/were...

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

as someone has said before...we look like a bag of parts that don't fit together.

I don't think it's fair to look at just this year as part of the issue. We were one committee member or so from being in the NIT last year, so there's been a bit of talent erosion that's been masked.

However, I think we learned a lesson or two this year. I'm not blaming the players, but when you bring in a 5th year senior who was shopping himself for the "best chance to get to the league", you get a player who clearly stated his top priority.

Gillon in the other hand, is here because he wants to win. I love his attitude, hate that he's 5'8" trying to deny entry passes to the high post.

Battle hasn't figured out how to get to the rim consistently and Frank looks so lost. No confidence in his ability to run an offense.

The leadership thing is a problem. No doubt in my mind. I think the team dynamics are just a horrible mess. I think benching Roberson was a huge mistake, you can limit his minutes without publicly shaming him. He has checked out completely.

There is talent here, but little chemistry or "intestinal fortitude".

I don't know how it gets fixed. We run a unique system that requires buy-in and repetition. Hard to make that work with 5th year guys and guys who don't care.

Seriously, send them to Fort Drum and let the soldiers spell it out for them, or go play some paintball, run an obstacle course in a tough mudder team event, hold a boxing tournament so they can take out some aggression on each other. They just do not have each others backs and JB hasn't gotten through to them yet. This was supposed to be Frank and TRobs team, with AW and half pint shoring up team weaknesses. Instead it looks like a power struggle for BMOC during the games, and we haven't seen this level of dysfunction since the MeShaun days, sheesh.

 

[dasher]

Hopkins has a look I haven't seen before , really mad , like he has been told that the succession plan isn't cut in stone. If that's the case, then all the assistants would feel like they will be out as well . That seems to be how the team is playing, scared. Setting a retirement date for JB was not smart.

Have you seen anything that should Hopkins or anyone else look happy? Mike has a contract that the school isn't going to back out of. Quite frankly, we can't afford to.

 

[CousCuse]

Have you seen anything that should Hopkins or anyone else look happy? Mike has a contract that the school isn't going to back out of. Quite frankly, we can't afford to.

That is a good point.

 

[NKR1978]

Southerland was 6'8". White is 6'7". And they are both forwards...I don't really see a big difference...

I see a huge difference.

 

[NKR1978]

Have you seen anything that should Hopkins or anyone else look happy? Mike has a contract that the school isn't going to back out of. Quite frankly, we can't afford to.

SU can afford protracted litigation. Hop can't.

 

[OttoMets]

I see a huge difference.

Yeah, White plays small against many of our opponents. I'm amazed at the number of times he's been tentative when a defender gets close to him. Southerland would just rise up and shoot.

 

[NKR1978]

Yeah, White plays small against many of our opponents. I'm amazed at the number of times he's been tentative when a defender gets close to him. Southerland would just rise up and shoot.

Honestly had no idea he was 6'7". He plays so much smaller.

 

[supp]

Hopkins has a look I haven't seen before , really mad , like he has been told that the succession plan isn't cut in stone. If that's the case, then all the assistants would feel like they will be out as well . That seems to be how the team is playing, scared. Setting a retirement date for JB was not smart.

Jesus...then clean house and be done with it. If this is true, which I don't think it is, then we don't need a guy with no professional pride running this program. You can be upset about your future prospects but it doesn't help you any to be resigned and resentful. And heck, if not for your own sake, then do it for your alma mater's sake. Isn't that one of the main reasons that people were on board with the succession plan?

If there is any "anger," it's either because Boeheim's lost this team and there's nothing he can do about it as his assistant or because he has no answers for what they're showing out there. How do you obliterate the weak teams and struggle with mediocre ones? That's mental weakness and poor chemistry if you ask me and not so much talent. Hopkins bears some blame here as he's the head assistant but Boeheim's ultimately responsible. Whether it's Olympic duties or too much delegation of recruiting responsibilities to assistants or sanctions, all together they spell benign neglect by Boeheim over the course of several years that's done this team in.

This program is way too valuable to the university to have it flounder for a couple of years with a longtime head coach on cruise control. And it's unfortunate but this is where I partially agree with CousCuse: I think the program's recent track record should damage the prospects of a neophyte coach taking over for Boeheim. I don't think Wildhack has had any in-season conversations with Hopkins about succession. That would be wildly irresponsible. But he should have them after the season. There is no room for error in the ACC. Spend money and bring in someone with a proven track record to put us back on the road to recovery.

 

[Ghost]

Honestly had no idea he was 6'7". He plays so much smaller.

I always think that too, but every one in awhile he seems to really sky for a rebound. His lack of a decent handle is a killer.

 

[CousCuse]

Jesus...then clean house and be done with it. If this is true, which I don't think it is, then we don't need a guy with no professional pride running this program. You can be upset about your future prospects but it doesn't help you any to be resigned and resentful. And heck, if not for your own sake, then do it for your alma mater's sake. Isn't that one of the main reasons that people were on board with the succession plan?

If there is any "anger," it's either because Boeheim's lost this team and there's nothing he can do about it as his assistant or because he has no answers for what they're showing out there. How do you obliterate the weak teams and struggle with mediocre ones? That's mental weakness and poor chemistry if you ask me and not so much talent. Hopkins bears some blame here as he's the head assistant but Boeheim's ultimately responsible. Whether it's Olympic duties or too much delegation of recruiting responsibilities to assistants or sanctions, all together they spell benign neglect by Boeheim over the course of several years that's done this team in.

This program is way too valuable to the university to have it flounder for a couple of years with a longtime head coach on cruise control. And it's unfortunate but this is where I partially agree with CousCuse: I think the program's recent track record should damage the prospects of a neophyte coach taking over for Boeheim. I don't think Wildhack has had any in-season conversations with Hopkins about succession. That would be wildly irresponsible. But he should have them after the season. There is no room for error in the ACC. Spend money and bring in someone with a proven track record to put us back on the road to recovery.

That was just my observation and some possible factors that seem plausible. Certainly, with the optics of this season thus far and that last game being the worst loss in JB's coaching career, there is a watershed event coming.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

In the business world, when there is this much dysfunction and confusion, a team usually schedules a retreat to: (a) get away from the "normal" environment, (b) listen to, analyze, and sort out everyone's view of what's wrong with the team, (c) come to some agreement on what's needed from everyone to fix the problems, and (d) commit to the plan, even if it means accepting more well-defined and possibly limited roles for each member. But the buy-in is worth everything, and perhaps out of the mud grows the lotus. We can only hope.-VBOF

 

[dollarbill44]

In the business world, when there is this much dysfunction and confusion, a team usually schedules a retreat to: (a) get away from the "normal" environment, (b) listen to, analyze, and sort out everyone's view of what's wrong with the team, (c) come to some agreement on what's needed from everyone to fix the problems, and (d) commit to the plan, even if it means accepting more well-defined and possibly limited roles for each member. But the buy-in is worth everything, and perhaps out of the mud grows the lotus. We can only hope.-VBOF

Not every organization in the business world is run that way. Many privately owned companies are run by a family member who don't care what the employees think. This program seems as if it is becoming that type of organization and the employees are tired of it and aren't willing to put out much.