Notre Dame...

[reedny]

Yes, Tyrone Willingham.

Wait...

A bunch of schools & confs have direct representation, including Luck of wv and the bevo.

But not nd.

ok... thanks for the info. I had heard differently... but that was a few years ago.

 

[bpo57]

Well, we have five with no more than one loss this year. I was trying to be generous. I wouldn't say there are good odds that you'll have more than one with two losses.

Basically what you had was the four conference tourneys ended up with the prospective F4 team as the winner. You think there will never be upsets C'mon now.

 

[bpo57]

People have very short memories (myself included), 2005 was the first time the ACC had its title game.

2014 One team with 0 or one loss.
2013 One team with 0 or one loss.
2012 No zero or one loss teams in final... (6-6 GT makes the final)
2010 No zero or one loss teams in final
2009 No zero or one loss teams in final
2008 No zero, one or two loss teams in final
2007 No zero or one loss teams in final
2006 No zero or one loss teams in final
2005 One team with zero or one loss... (a 7-4 FSU wins)

THAT is why Swofford wants an 8 team playoff.. IMO.

History suggests an 11-1 ND will have its shots at the "ACC's spot".

7 out of 9 years, most likely would have seen an 11-1 ND taken before the ACC Champ.

I wonder if the Pac 10 is similar.

Agreed. More often than not there will be a P5 conference winner that will have two losses. This year was a bit of an anomaly.

 

[bpo57]

People speculating that ND will have to go 12-0 to get into to the playoffs is ironic. For years and years many would complain that the Irish got into bowl games they didn't deserve because of their national following and the bowls/networks insatiable thirst for dollars. Now we're supposed to believe that the powers that be don't care about any of that anymore. I don't think so. There are publicly listed companies that don't pay as much attention to the bottom line as the NCAA.

 

[bpo57]

If (when?) the Big XII institutes a championship game, an 11-1 ND would be hard-pressed to be chosen ahead of any 12-1 conference winner. I think playing one fewer game this year was held against TCU/Baylor.

I don't know- they seeded two teams ahead of FSU that had one less victory. And they were seeded ahead of them prior to the conference championships. ND normally plays a pretty solid schedule outside of the 6 ACC games. Stanford, USC, Navy is decent. I know they are playing Ohio State in the future. Their schedule typically ranks with other powers so if they go 11-1 it should keep them in the mix. I just have a hard time believing ND is at any sort of competitive disadvantage. If they are legit they'll get the same look as everybody else. To assume otherwise is to completely disregard the financial ramifications of these decisions. That would be a mistake IMO.

 

[KaiserUEO]

People speculating that ND will have to go 12-0 to get into to the playoffs is ironic. For years and years many would complain that the Irish got into bowl games they didn't deserve because of their national following and the bowls/networks insatiable thirst for dollars. Now we're supposed to believe that the powers that be don't care about any of that anymore. I don't think so. There are publicly listed companies that don't pay as much attention to the bottom line as the NCAA.

yes.

the playoff committee doesnt give a shlit who you are.

they want the best teams.

ratings are just going to be there, they dont need a nd, or a osu...

 

[Jake]

People speculating that ND will have to go 12-0 to get into to the playoffs is ironic. For years and years many would complain that the Irish got into bowl games they didn't deserve because of their national following and the bowls/networks insatiable thirst for dollars. Now we're supposed to believe that the powers that be don't care about any of that anymore. I don't think so. There are publicly listed companies that don't pay as much attention to the bottom line as the NCAA.

Its not ironic, its understanding that the landscape has changed. The previous system put a premium on eyeballs on bowl games and polls. The new system, makes eyeballs and polls irrelevant. The committee rightly understands that if the public thinks the top four teams in the nation are Duke, Miss St., UCLA and Okie St ...those matchups will generate more eyeballs...and will produce a legit champion...and therefore create more interest/

ND's argument that it delivers "more eyeballs" has been neutered. Why people don't get this is amazing.

The committee is filled with people who for years have been shunned by the ND Fan factor. Why people think they will not remember the times that their team was bumped to a lower bowl because ND "had a better TV following" is not realistic.

 

[bpo57]

yes.

the playoff committee doesnt give a shlit who you are.

they want the best teams.

ratings are just going to be there, they dont need a nd, or a osu...

Ok then if they're one of the best teams then they'll get in, right? Been saying that all along.

 

[Jake]

Ok then if they're one of the best teams then they'll get in, right? Been saying that all along.

Um no. You were arguing that ND eyeballs would still be a significant consideration for picking the top 4 teams.

For years and years many would complain that the Irish got into bowl games they didn't deserve because of their national following and the bowls/networks insatiable thirst for dollars. Now we're supposed to believe that the powers that be don't care about any of that anymore. I don't think so.

UEO and I are saying it won't matter. Try to take a position and try to stick to it. We have.

 

[TheCusian]

Ok then if they're one of the best teams then they'll get in, right? Been saying that all along.

If they play one less marquee game than the other 4 contenders due to conference championships, they might get the "results inconclusive" tag. Like TCU and Baylor just found out.

 

[bpo57]

Its not ironic, its understanding that the landscape has changed. The previous system put a premium on eyeballs on bowl games and polls. The new system, makes eyeballs and polls irrelevant. The committee rightly understands that if the public thinks the top four teams in the nation are Duke, Miss St., UCLA and Okie St ...those matchups will generate more eyeballs...and will produce a legit champion...and therefore create more interest/

ND's argument that it delivers "more eyeballs" has been neutered. Why people don't get this is amazing.

The committee is filled with people who for years have been shunned by the ND Fan factor. Why people think they will not remember the times that their team was bumped to a lower bowl because ND "had a better TV following" is not realistic.

Thinking that the NCAA and its partners don't care about $$$ is crazy unrealistic. How many times have you heard somebody in the last few days say if that were Texas or OU instead of Baylor and TCU it wouldn't have gone down that way? Btw based on one playoff selection process you have determined that ND has been sent to the back of the line? When did you receive that memo and who sent it to you?

The NCAA is laser focused on the bottom line. That doesn't mean somebody like a ND (very few comparables out there btw in terms of fan following and tv ratings) just gets in for who they are but there is no way in hell they will be treated in a shabby fashion. If you believe that then I have some ocean front property in Syracuse that might be of interest to you. I know you have been a college sports observer for a long time so I would have assumed you've seen the NCAA in action.

 

[bpo57]

Um no. You were arguing that ND eyeballs would still be a significant consideration for picking the top 4 teams.

For years and years many would complain that the Irish got into bowl games they didn't deserve because of their national following and the bowls/networks insatiable thirst for dollars. Now we're supposed to believe that the powers that be don't care about any of that anymore. I don't think so.

UEO and I are saying it won't matter. Try to take a position and try to stick to it. We have.

Yeah and your position is wrong. Try to follow along here, King Jake. What you (and a few others) are saying is that - resumes being 100% equal - ND will be mistreated compared to that other prospective playoff team with the equal resume. Because somehow the landscape has changed. I am saying they won't be mistreated because of the eye balls and fan interest, i.e the dollars. I am not saying they will necessarily have the nod over that other prospective playoff team just that they won't be mistreated. That's a consistent point of view and one that's quite frankly not that hard to follow.

 

[Jake]

Thinking that the NCAA and its partners don't care about $$$ is crazy unrealistic. How many times have you heard somebody in the last few days say if that were Texas or OU instead of Baylor and TCU it wouldn't have gone down that way? Btw based on one playoff selection process you have determined that ND has been sent to the back of the line? When did you receive that memo and who sent it to you?

The NCAA is laser focused on the bottom line. That doesn't mean somebody like a ND (very few comparables out there btw in terms of fan following and tv ratings) just gets in for who they are but there is no way in hell they will be treated in a shabby fashion. If you believe that then I have some ocean front property in Syracuse that might be of interest to you. I know you have been college sports observer for a long time so I would have assumed you've seen the NCAA in action.

First of all, I don't believe the decision would have been different if OU or Texas was involved. This was the P5 conferences that have a CCG sending a message to the only one that doesn't that they better get one to even the competitive playing field.

Second of all, I never said the NCAA doesn't care about money, I said the NCAA thinks that producing the best 4 teams was more important in creating interest (and therefore $) than inviting ND. Again ,how people don't see this is dumbfounding. If ND is perceived by FB people to be in the best 4, they get in, but if they are not they are not jumping more deserving teams to get into the final four...as was the case in the bowl system.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[bpo57]

If they play one less marquee game than the other 4 contenders due to conference championships, they might get the "results inconclusive" tag. Like TCU and Baylor just found out.

So let's say ND loses in week 2 by a FG to a major powerhouse (somebody that is clearly in the top 3 in December) and then runs the table with some impressive wins. They're not going to get in because they didn't win a conference championship? No way that happens. Besides, as Wicked Orange points out above, there have been numerous instances of where the ACC (let alone other conferences) has had a conference final where neither team went in with 0 or 1 loss. So in many years it will be a completely moot point.

 

[bpo57]

First of all, I don't believe the decision would have been different if OU or Texas was involved. This was the P5 conferences that have a CCG sending a message to the only one that doesn't that they better get one to even the competitive playing field.

Second of all, I never said the NCAA doesn't care about money, I said the NCAA thinks that producing the best 4 teams was more important in creating interest (and therefore $) than inviting ND. Again ,how people don't see this is dumbfounding. If ND is perceived by FB people to be in the best 4, they get in, but if they are not they are not jumping more deserving teams to get into the final four...as was the case in the bowl system.

This isn't rocket science.

Sounds great, Jake. The only difference is this time around you're saying that if ND is one of the 4 best then they get in (which is what I have been saying all along). I missed that in previous posts. You very clearly implied that ND would be on the outside looking in cuz they didn't play in a CCG. My mention of eyeballs and $$$ is only to counter those who think ND will get hosed because of some new system. I think they have as good a shot as anybody else (other than the B1G rep) to get in- all other things being equal.

 

[Jake]

Sounds great, Jake. The only difference is this time around you're saying that if ND is one of the 4 best then they get in (which is what I have been saying all along). I missed that in previous posts. You very clearly implied that ND would be on the outside looking in cuz they didn't play in a CCG. My mention of eyeballs and $$$ is only to counter those who think ND will get hosed because of some new system. I think they have as good a shot as anybody else (other than the B1G rep) to get in- all other things being equal.

I said that would put them in a competitive disadvantage. Ergo 11-1 ND < 12-1 team with a CCG win no matter the conference. Therefore ND needs to get into a CCG because a 12-1 CCG ND has better chance against a 12-1 CCG from another conference. Which is saying that their fan following is irrelevant...which again was your stated position that their fan following was going to be a factor. again, not rocket science.

 

[longtimefan]

So let's say ND loses in week 2 by a FG to a major powerhouse (somebody that is clearly in the top 3 in December) and then runs the table with some impressive wins. They're not going to get in because they didn't win a conference championship? No way that happens. Besides, as Wicked Orange points out above, there have been numerous instances of where the ACC (let alone other conferences) has had a conference final where neither team went in with 0 or 1 loss. So in many years it will be a completely moot point.

It's hard to anticipate all of the variables, but I would suggest that in those cases where ND loses only once (11-1), they will finish behind any P5 league champion that has a single loss (12-1). What percentage of the time will there be 4 leagues or more whose champion has 1 loss or less??

 

[bpo57]

I said that would put them in a competitive disadvantage. Ergo 11-1 ND < 12-1 team with a CCG win no matter the conference. Therefore ND needs to get into a CCG because a 12-1 CCG ND has better chance against a 12-1 CCG from another conference. Which is saying that their fan following is irrelevant...which again was your stated position that their fan following was going to be a factor. again, not rocket science.

We're talking past each other. I said their fan following would be a mitigating factor to help offset the fact they don't play in a CCG. How you can say a 11-1 ND is necessarily inferior to a P5 conference champ that goes 12-1 escapes me. What if that 12-1 team played in the weakest P5 conference and had some soft OOC wins? Would they still get in ahead of ND?

 

[bpo57]

It's hard to anticipate all of the variables, but I would suggest that in those cases where ND loses only once (11-1), they will finish behind any P5 league champion that has a single loss (12-1). What percentage of the time will there be 4 leagues or more whose champion has 1 loss or less??

Well as mentioned above the ACC has numerous times where the CCG was played by teams that both had more than one loss. I think that will happen often. So an 11-1 team with several excellent wins (and one close loss to a power) would not get in ahead of a 12-1 team that played several softies?

 

[KaiserUEO]

We're talking past each other. I said their fan following would be a mitigating factor to help offset the fact they don't play in a CCG. How you can say a 11-1 ND is necessarily inferior to a P5 conference champ that goes 12-1 escapes me. What if that 12-1 team played in the weakest P5 conference and had some soft OOC wins? Would they still get in ahead of ND?

yes.

because they just won their championship game while nd was eating doritos hoping for all kinds of upsets to put them back in the mix, praying the committee would consider them for inclusion.

 

[TheCusian]

We're talking past each other. I said their fan following would be a mitigating factor to help offset the fact they don't play in a CCG. How you can say a 11-1 ND is necessarily inferior to a P5 conference champ that goes 12-1 escapes me. What if that 12-1 team played in the weakest P5 conference and had some soft OOC wins? Would they still get in ahead of ND?

The resumes would be different? Ohio State just added a top 20 blowout to their resume, while TCU added a blowout to a nobody. Ohio State got a quality win late and can call themselves the B1G champion.

ND at 11-1 would be playing - literally nobody and would be the champion on nothing.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Well as mentioned above the ACC has numerous times where the CCG was played by teams that both had more than one loss. I think that will happen often. So an 11-1 team with several excellent wins (and one close loss to a power) would not get in ahead of a 12-1 team that played several softies?

now you are splitting hairs trying to find a scenario.

bottom line, if P5 all have 12-1 teams after champ weekend and nd is 11-1, theyre finishing 6th at best.

 

[longtimefan]

Well as mentioned above the ACC has numerous times where the CCG was played by teams that both had more than one loss. I think that will happen often. So an 11-1 team with several excellent wins (and one close loss to a power) would not get in ahead of a 12-1 team that played several softies?

Like I said, variables.

The question is, how much of a gamble is status quo for ND?

 

[Jake]

now you are splitting hairs trying to find a scenario.

bottom line, if P5 all have 12-1 teams after champ weekend and nd is 11-1, theyre finishing 6th at best.

And that is the bottom line. ND is no longer leapfrogging teams with a better record because of fan following. Isn't this were this tread started?

 

[TheCusian]

Like I said, variables. The question is, how much of a gamble is status quo for ND?

ND fan: The playoffs are yearly, independence is forever™