Obviously, he didn't retire.

[kcsu]

The move was decided a long time ago.

Jim forced the university’s hand to announce tonight after his presser pinning it on the university. Was clumsy, ungraceful and unnecessary if im being honest. I bet the school wanted to give it a day or so or at least get Jim to officially endorse Red publicly.

He’s clearly bitter and hasnt come to terms with things.

Oh well

JW was and obviously is in control. No surprise here

 

[PoppyHart]

Agreed. Not disputing there are people who have some info and some good contacts and are generally reliable. Not calling any of them out.

But there is no one who is in THE room (AD, chancellor, JB, Julie) who is giving these folks the kind of info I’ve seen shared here today. Some of it only Jim himself would know (motivations, inner thoughts etc)

People who really KNOW the sort of stuff some are discussing on here today don’t share on fan message boards or share with people who post on fan message boards.

And when I see people posting stuff on here that blatantly attacks the character and motivations of JB, and then reports it as fact, it genuinely upsets me.

Does it upset you when the Dana O’Neil’s of the world offer their opinions on JB’s character and motivation? She, and other national journalists/columnists are even more removed than most on this board, and they’re profiting from it!

 

[Sherman20]

This is a much more reasonable take than those who are insisting Boeheim selfishly and intentionally ran Hop out in bad faith just to stroke his ego or something.

It may be worse than even I’m describing. Some folks have suggested that JB sabotaged Hop’s recruiting by not letting him bring in the players he wanted (even though he was a year away from taking over as head coach) and was making things difficult for him behind the scenes. But I can’t testify to that. Others may be able to.

 

[Toga]

And that’s why you’re still on the scout team

Playing the Scout team card.

 

[elimunelson]

I’m curious what national guy gets the inside story from wildhack and from boeheim

My guess:

Thamel-SUs take
Goodman-Boeheim

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

It was the "progressive" thing to do. I hope all u knucklehead wreep what you sow cuz I think we are going to be very bad for a very long time without Jim Boeheim lol. O well.

You mean it represented a natural progression?

This is a silly post. He was nearly 80. I advocated for seniors in my previous career, so. I am sensitive to age related issues, but it was time. Everyone has a time.

 

[Cuse181]

That’s Hyperbole. No bridge has been burned. JB understands that winning is everything, and he didn’t do enough of it in recent years. He’ll get a cushy fundraising gig in the athletic department (like Gary Williams at Maryland) once the dust settles.

Seems like something that would’ve been good to announce yesterday

 

[Cuseball]

Seems like something that would’ve been good to announce yesterday

Yes it could have been done much better. Not sure why Cuse needed to announce this yesterday and couldn’t wait a day or two to get all details set. Poorly executed by the Cuse

 

[oldpinepoint]

Yes it could have been done much better. Not sure why Cuse needed to announce this yesterday and couldn’t wait a day or two to get all details set. Poorly executed by the Cuse

My guess is this that announcement yesterday probably wasn’t planned but was moved up on the timeline due to the press conference. I thought the university handled it well

 

[swish7]

Yes it could have been done much better. Not sure why Cuse needed to announce this yesterday and couldn’t wait a day or two to get all details set. Poorly executed by the Cuse

This moment was poorly handled by all involved.
Compare and contrast it with Coach Ks farewell tour and final concert last year.

Yes, I have heard JB didn't 'want that', but come on, this was a clown show.

Not impressed with Wildhack.

Wish JB would have accepted things with grace, and expect he will in time, but, anyway, I cannot speak to his motivations. It must be emotionally so complicated. He is a competitor, they were not winning, its time to go, lights out...

 

[Cusefan69]

My guess is this that announcement yesterday probably wasn’t planned but was moved up on the timeline due to the press conference. I thought the university handled it well

Agreed. Nothing against JB but he could have said something such as " No decisions have been made yet and John and I will be talking about things in the near future ". Simple and addresses the questions being asked. That unfortunately didn't happen and it then required the AD to address it more quickly than maybe they had been expecting.

 

[721Comstock]

Friends and relatives have bene E-mailing me for my reaction. Here is what I'm sending them:

In the early 70’s a bought a book on the history of basketball that listed the various school’s yearly records and noted that some schools had been fortunate enough to hire coaches who were enormously successful and coached there for decades, their name appearing on the right side of each year’s record, guys Like Rupp and Iba and Allen and Wooden. I wondered what it must be like to be a fan of those schools and see those eras being played out. Thanks to Jim Boeheim, I got to see it. With the help of the Dome, the Big East and ESPIN, Jimi really put us on the map and that’s what fans in a place like this, a small city with no pro teams to root for, are looking for. I call it ‘existential rooting: We win, therefore we are. The other side of that is that if we lose, we are held in disrepute or, worse, become irrelevant. And that creates resentment.

In the late 80’s, our recruiting was the best it’s ever bene. We were competing for the very top recruits and brought several of them in and were as good as anybody. Then came the first probation. A probation had three impacts: when t’s known that a school is under investigation, that can put a cloud over recruiting. Then come the actual sanctions, which can last several years. Then for years afterwards, you can’t afford to make a mistake because the penalties could be more severe. The probation was, to be frank, largely bullshit and other schools did much worse and didn’t get penalized as much but the impact was strong and we were never really a ‘selector school’ as Coach Mac used to call Penn State again. But Lawrence Moten proved an under-the-radar star and John Wallace was a 5 star recruit who grew up in Rochester as a fan of the program and decided to come here despite the probation and they kept us going at a strong level, even getting back to the national title game. Finally enough years had passed that we could get a player like Carmelo Anthony and we won the national championship.

Meanwhile, Boeheim’s 2-3 zone started to become famous after the national title. He relied on it more and more and decided to play it exclusively: it could be played in different ways passive or aggressive, suing traps, etc. And by focusing on it in practice, we could get better and better at it. The decision worked beautifully and we averaged 30 wins a year and just 7 losses over a six year period from 2008-2014. Three of those teams reached a $1 ranking and a fourth made it to the final four. We might have gotten another national championship if we hadn’t lost our center just before the 2010 and 2012 NCAA tournaments.

But the game was changing. Steph Curry and Klay Thompson led the Warriors to become and NBA dynasty by tossing in three pointers like they were lay-ups and the trend came to be to set up your jump shooters. Jay Wright had a lot of success at Villanova, (2 national titles in three years) with 3 and 4 guard line-ups, often with just a forward on the inside. A generation of player grew up learning to shoot the three pointer, resulting in opposition that could put several good shooter son the floor at the same time. That forced the zone to expand, opening up gaps in it through which players could penetrate and shot from the high post, feed the baseline or toss it back out for threes. Not only do the threes score more points but the shooting percentage on twos dramatically increases. In our four game losing streak, Duke shot 59%, Clemson 69%, Pitt 59% and Georgia Tech 63% on two point shots. Even Wake Forest shot 63% and 56% on twos in these last two games. Boeheim himself pointed out that a stretched our zone, where you can’t box out and have all that territory to cover, limits your abilities to rebound so you get killed on the boards, too. Some years back, Jim decided that his center should guard both the low and high post as well as the corners so his guards and forwards could move out to where the shooters were. Bill Russell couldn’t be in four places at once. Jim has recruited skinny, athletic centers who can cover ground but get banged around underneath the basket, with poor results for us.

Then came the second probation, also mostly BS, (and with schools who did far worse getting lesser or no penalties), with the same effect as the first one. Our recruits over the last decade have usually been ranked in the second 100 recruits while Duke was getting multiple top ten guys each year. You can occasionally get stars from ‘under the radar’ but if all your recruits are under the radar, you will be, too. Our average record over the last 9 years has been 19-14. I looked at the last poll before the NCAA tournament in each of those nine years and the number of votes we got to be in the Top 25 was ZERO. Nobody has thought we were a top 25 team in ten years. Fortunately the zone can still be a mystery to schools that haven’t seen it and we made three good NCAA runs in that time. Two improbably rallies got us two great upsets in 2016 and we became the worst team in the Finals four and wound up $10 in the final poll. In 2018 we made it from the first four to the Sweet 16 and got 79 votes, for the top 25, the most of any school not to make it. In 2021 we again got to the Sweet 16 and wound up #25. That’s not the record of a nation al power, which we thought we were.

Meanwhile, our single national title was followed by Connecticut getting it’s 2nd, 3rd and 4th, North Carolina getting their 4th, 5th and 6th, Florida getting its first two, Kansas getting their 2nd and 3rd, Duke getting #4 and 5, Kentucky getting #8, Louisville #3, and Villanova getting #2 and 3. Meanwhile, we have as many as Holy Cross, CCNY and UTEP. 1987 should have bene our first tile but we let it slip through our fingers. We hung in against a Kentucky team with 8 future NBA players in ’96 but came up short. We won it in ’03 and lost our centers in 20010 and 2012. SU fans at that time were anxious to win more as we were increasingly in the rear-view mirrors of schools we considered our piers. We’ve spent 9 years spinning our wheels and seem to be receding, rather than moving forward.

Boeheim has stuck with the zone, the 1-2-3-4-5 line-up, (point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, center) and the isolation and drive concept NBA coach Mike D’Antonio taught him when they worked together on the Olympics, even everybody else is trying to play like the Warriors. Then he realized the dream of coaching his two sons on last year’s team, even though neither was a good defensive player and neither were Joe Girard or Cole Swider and our 51 year streak of winning seasons, (second all-time to UCLA’s 54), came to an end. He also made the decision, in the face of the transfer portal , to recruit 6 freshmen and hope to ‘coach them up’ as they grew up while other schools recruited veteran college players thought the portal. Those veteran teams went up the standings as if in an elevator while we had trouble beating them with our freshmen. And we may have equal trouble retaining them in the face of the portal and NIL money.

All this has created more and more critics and more and more fans who no longer care. It was readily apparent Saturday when 24,000 fans showed up for an event that would have drawn 34,000 a decade ago. I sit in section 308, seat D1. I can recall fighting to stay on my seat in the old days and my row was full and had several interlopers sitting in it. Saturday, the next 16 seats to my left were empty. Boeheim’s reaction to the criticisms and empty seats has been defiance and even delusion. He seems to view the games as the equivalent of Trump rallies, where everyone has come to admire him. This was revealed on Saturday’s post-season press conference:
Jim has said for the last couple of years that there was an “Ironclad Plan” for the succession, but refused to reveal what it was. There didn’t seem to be much of a plan today:
Syracuse Press Conference | ACC Tournament vs. Wake Forest
The transfer portal opens on Monday and we may have several players enter it. We needed to have a coaching staff in place for that to recruit from the portal. To leave things to some kind of negotiation over another job was irresponsible. Boeheim should just have announced his retirement and his support of the new coach, Red Autry. So the school had to make a move and do it quickly.

What kind of coach will Red make? Will he be just a Boeheim clone when we need something more than that? Will he be able to recruit? Will he know how to win? Stay tuned. I’m always hopeful, which isn’t the same as being optimistic.


I'll be doing a longer piece in the near future: "The Upside and Downside of Jim Boeheim"

Longer?? LONGER??!!

 

[CuseCPT]

It was the "progressive" thing to do. I hope all u knucklehead wreep what you sow cuz I think we are going to be very bad for a very long time without Jim Boeheim lol. O well.

Oh no! You're right! Being a ~.500 ACC team and playing for the NIT is definitely living high on the hog.

And what do you mean by "progressive"?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Playing the Scout team card.

I was feeling a bit full of myself yesterday. Birthday and all.

 

[721Comstock]

Triggered by the word progressive, damn

How about Geico?

 

[CuseCPT]

Explain how you personally know this to be true. Did Hop tell you this personally? Did you have a conversation with Jim where he admitted it? How about the AD or chancellor?

If that's the criteria for posting on this board it should average 6-7 new posts per year from like 3 people.

 

[orangencpolice]

I’m at least a little confused why it was handled this way. A “non-retirement retirement” statement from JB at the postgame presser followed by a statement an hour later that does not mention the word retirement once. It feels as though something really went sour and the University finally said “we’re done with this.”

I’m sure Jim was given the opportunity to announce he was retiring in the postgame press conference and they told him they’d be releasing a statement shortly thereafter. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the University had two press releases ready to go. One where he announced his retirement and then the one they released.

If that’s not how it went down, then why not have a press conference the following day back on campus where Jim announces he’s officially retiring?

I was at the WF game and stayed for the first half of GT and Pitt. Fans at the tournament and through social media we started hearing rumors of “it’s up to the University “. Both Jim and the university should have come up with a better game plan. It sucks all around for everyone, including us fans.

 

[Sherman20]

Seems like something that would’ve been good to announce yesterday

I think the dust needs to settle and wounds need to heal. It sounds like JB was still fighting to hold onto the head coaching gig just a few days ago.

 

[gilardino]

I will leave it at that. The plan was to be back.

 

[Tom W.]

If that's the criteria for posting on this board it should average 6-7 new posts per year from like 3 people.

OMG. I’m sorry I even said anything. People are not understanding what I’m saying. Post whatever you want. Share your opinion. I do. People just shouldn’t try to pass off 5th hand information as absolute fact, especially when it degrades or attacks the character and motivations of people they don’t even know. That’s it. All I was saying.

If you think all of that stuff is true, fine, say you believe it. But don’t act like you’re in the know and announce it as absolute fact unless you have actual first hand knowledge and conversations with the actual people involved.

 

[jdubs30]

Doesn’t matter what his plan was. The school made their choice clear. He’ll go elsewhere if he wants to coach

 

[gilardino]

there is more to the story. Things will unfold quickly.

 

[Jake]

I mean, he didn’t run Hop out of town exactly. But he put Hop in an extremely tough position when he started agitating behind the scenes that he didn’t want to retire and complaining he had been forced into it by the chancellor to set a retirement date. Hop knew JB didn’t want to go, and he didn’t want to be the one to push out his mentor, the guy that gave him his career in Coaching. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place. JB should’ve respected Hop and followed the succession plan. (But he clearly saw that Buddy was developing into a legit D1 prospect and he wanted the chance to coach his kid.)

This is pretty accurate. If Hop thought there was going to a smooth transition and an honoring of the plan then he would have stayed and taken over.

But he saw the behind the scenes shenanigans in motion and knew it would have been a hostile takeover. There was a lot of crazy stuff happening back then. So he told his agent to start looking.

Yesterdays events proved him to be Nostradamus.

So he left and couched his comments by saying all the right things publicly.

 

[Jake]

This moment was poorly handled by all involved.
Compare and contrast it with Coach Ks farewell tour and final concert last year.

Yes, I have heard JB didn't 'want that', but come on, this was a clown show.

Not impressed with Wildhack.

Wish JB would have accepted things with grace, and expect he will in time, but, anyway, I cannot speak to his motivations. It must be emotionally so complicated. He is a competitor, they were not winning, its time to go, lights out...

What should Wildhack have done differently?

 

[elimunelson]

This is pretty accurate. If Hop thought there was going to a smooth transition and an honoring of the plan then he would have stayed and taken over.

But he saw the behind the scenes shenanigans in motion and knew it would have been a hostile takeover. There was a lot of crazy stuff happening back then. So he told his agent to start looking.

Yesterdays events proved him to be Nostradamus.

So he left and couched his comments by saying all the right things publicly.

I think all those situations cost him the BC job when he initially started looking. He prob was confused by the transition and the timing. Bc backed off when it was unclear to them too