Obviously, he didn't retire.

[swish7]

They had to? Really? I don’t think they had to do anything. So what if the media speculated for a day. They could have done nothing, had JW presser the next day thanking him for his years of service, for building the program, for dedicating his life to the university. Etc. He didn’t have to be there. I think ending it on a tweet was weaksauce. So do many others

A lot of the non internet diehard people think this.

A cranky jerk? maybe, but 47 years of service maybe deserved a little better

prove it, outside of anecdotal commentary.

And if we want to use anecdotal commentary...all the fellow alums I talk with and family members that are local to CNY...none brought up that he was wronged. Not one.

Why do I have to prove anything? Holy cow. You want me to drag my old neighbors to here and confess to you? What? OK judge wapner.

Still local friends are livid about it. Not all. Some.

The syracuse dot com comments (which are usually hilarious by the way) are strangely pro JB, and they really had not been. The perception outside this here microcosm of super-diehard, and knowledgable fans, among SOME people, is that it was not handled well.

You can argue JBs fault all you want. Doesn't change the perception.

My guess is that it will all go away when it is handled well. Maybe this will take JB saying something nice about Red and accepting things publically while the bureaucrats exist in the background. I do not know. And maybe that will be giving JB something he wants, like some ambassador role with the university. Again, don't know.

 

[kingtidge]

A lot of the non internet diehard people think this.

A cranky jerk? maybe, but 47 years of service maybe deserved a little better

Still local friends are livid about it. Not all. Some.

The syracuse dot com comments (which are usually hilarious by the way) are strangely pro JB, and they really had not been. The perception outside this here microcosm of super-diehard, and knowledgable fans, among SOME people, is that it was not handled well.

You can argue JBs fault all you want. Doesn't change the perception.

That's fine.

There's also a fair number national media folk that are both baffled by JB's behavior in the snippets of the press conference and the door-shutting statement by the school following.

Taken both by themselves, with little context, it comes off as "what the hell is going on here?"

For many that have have watched his inability to handle many basic press conferences properly of late, it's certainly no surprise and the "what the hell is going on here?" is a question many diehards have been asking about the program for a number of years now.

You want to say "he's a curmudgeon but deserved way better handling than this", ok.

But a lot of people were fed up with his behavior and it didn't happen overnight. It would appear that sentiment extended to on the hill as well and they simply had enough of it.

The school had a plan A for this (that we all probably wanted except for one person, evidently.) They also had a less desirable plan B if Boeheim went rogue and off script. The fact we needed a contingency plan b speaks volumes.

We got plan B because he went rogue in yet another poorly-handled press conference by JB.

There's a tangible, poor track record with his behavior here and this year he's been particularly bad... and it's no surprise the admin just didn't grit their teeth and let him throw them under the bus. The last straw perhaps.

Fait accompli.

Regardless, lot's of cleanup is needed by both parties in the 10am presser.

I hope they pickup the table and reset it and give Red the congratulatory welcoming to the job he deserves.

 

[Trueblue25]

Just here to agree with bnoro

K’s an insufferable loser and I still get pissed off we honored him at the dome the way we did.

Low class toolshed

That being said, at least he didnt do what Boeheim did and drag things down with him

 

[pokercuse08]

They had to? Really? I don’t think they had to do anything. So what if the media speculated for a day. They could have done nothing, had JW presser the next day thanking him for his years of service, for building the program, for dedicating his life to the university. Etc. He didn’t have to be there. I think ending it on a tweet was weaksauce. So do many others

Boeheim told the players in the locker room after that awful presser. So there's no way it was staying quiet for a day. Would it have been better if it leaked through players and their friends/families?

Think about it. You're Wildhack. You've got the sports information department telling you their phones are blowing up from reporters at everywhere from ESPN to WAER asking one simple question. "Uhh, is Jim Boeheim still the coach?"

Adrian Autry hits you up, "Hey just so you know, Jim just told the guys in the locker room. This is going to leak soon."

Your old ESPN buddies are blowing up your phone asking you What is going on and telling you that you better get ahead of this.

Meanwhile, Boeheim is clearly a wild card after that press conference. He could come out a few hours later and announce that he's decided to return, making matters even worse.

And you think the right strategy is to sit on it for a day and let the speculation run rampant as various reporters get the leaks from the players and their friends/families, and break the story? You think that looks more competent and professional than what happened?

 

[pokercuse08]

The school had a plan A for this (that we all probably wanted except for one person, evidently.) They also had a less desirable plan B if Boeheim went rogue and off script. The fact we needed a contingency plan b speaks volumes.

Plan A was probably some sort of either farewell tour or Jim Boeheim Night at the Dome the last game of the year, with a tearful goodbye to a long extended standing ovation from 35,000 people (or maybe even 51,000). An iconic moment for an iconic coach. Boeheim obviously told them what to do with that idea.

Plan B was finding a way to honor him without announcing anything, and having it handled in a press conference after the season. It appears everyone begrudgingly compromised on that, under the guise of the National Championship celebration. Then Boeheim went rogue at the presser, and we got Plan C.

 

[Newhouser]

I don't understand the stance on how it is the school's fault. Does SU regularly mishandle these things? For sure, and they have some blame here no doubt. However, if reports are true, and we all have some level of insider who claims to know something, there was a plan/script and JB - as seems to be his MO when it comes to replacing him - didn't follow it. Everyone has their own take which is understandable...for me I have more respect for the AD now than I have ever had, and I am not his biggest fan.

 

[kingtidge]

Plan A was probably some sort of either farewell tour or Jim Boeheim Night at the Dome the last game of the year, with a tearful goodbye to a long extended standing ovation from 35,000 people (or maybe even 51,000). An iconic moment for an iconic coach. Boeheim obviously told them what to do with that idea.

Plan B was finding a way to honor him without announcing anything, and having it handled in a press conference after the season. It appears everyone begrudgingly compromised on that, under the guise of the National Championship celebration. Then Boeheim went rogue at the presser, and we got Plan C.

Plan B above exists only in your head.

 

[pokercuse08]

The syracuse dot com comments (which are usually hilarious by the way) are strangely pro JB, and they really had not been. The perception outside this here microcosm of super-diehard, and knowledgable fans, among SOME people, is that it was not handled well.

You can argue JBs fault all you want. Doesn't change the perception.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that the perception you described does not exist with a large portion of the fanbase. What we're telling you is that the perception you described is completely wrong. Like, if you've never interacted with Jim Boeheim, and your perception of him is primarily what you see of him on ESPN, then he seems like a really nice guy and it's easy to draw the conclusion that he's just a bit of a to the local media now and then when he gets a stupid question, and that he's a kind and reasonable man who would do the right thing in this retirement situation.

But almost everyone who's ever ACTUALLY been round him in real life, or who knows a bunch of people who are, is telling you who the man has been for decades. I graduated in '08, and I was in the student media. I never asked him a question and I never had him be a jerk to me directly, but I saw it go on with a lot of people and heard a lot of stories. I have also heard them from ESPN people for years about what he's like when the cameras aren't on depending on whether they're an important enough member of the media to get his time of day or even a respectful response to, "Hey coach, nice to meet you."

So it's no shock to anyone who was around him the way this went down, and it's not hard to figure out how and why it went down like that and who's to blame. The perception will be what it will be. If you want to argue that the school should have bent over backwards, even more than they did the last several years, to avoid that perception... Then you can make that argument credibly. But be specific. What should they have done? How many losing seasons? How far should he have been allowed to run this into the ground, destroying his own legacy by the way? Because his success is iron-clad, but a big part of his legacy is turning Syracuse Basketball into what it is... and if it dies (at least as we know it) after he's gone, that part of his legacy is altered too.

 

[pokercuse08]

Plan B above exists only in your head.

Go on... You're telling me the National Championship celebration wasn't an attempt to unofficially honor him on the way out? Wasn't an attempt to give him the mic on the court during his last home game? You're telling me he didn't already know he was done? That they didn't already have a contract signed with Autry, allowing them to make that quick announcement? Please be specific about what exists only in my head here, because some of that seems very obvious to me.

 

[TinyManInside]

Ironclad.

 

[kingtidge]

Go on... You're telling me the National Championship celebration wasn't an attempt to unofficially honor him on the way out? Wasn't an attempt to give him the mic on the court during his last home game? You're telling me he didn't already know he was done? That they didn't already have a contract signed with Autry, allowing them to make that quick announcement? Please be specific about what exists only in my head here, because some of that seems very obvious to me.

I agree with you on all that.

The issue is he called out the school in the press conference and told all media to "ask them" on the status of his job, amongst clutch of additional bizarre, nonsensical comments.

He painted the school in a corner and forced them to redraft their planned release and respond immediately.

That is what happened.

You said this should have been Plan B:

Plan B was finding a way to honor him without announcing anything, and having it handled in a press conference after the season. It appears everyone begrudgingly compromised on that, under the guise of the National Championship celebration. Then Boeheim went rogue at the presser, and we got Plan C.

What ideal plan can you have for a guy who refuses to retire under any plan??... plays along then flips the script at the time of the announcement??

I have no doubt that AD and Adminstration were furious, and they had every right to be.

If he refuses leave on agreeable terms and under a planned transition announcement, you get what we saw...

There's no orchestrated plan for that, there's just immediate response and PR damage control.

The school did what they had to do. JB forced them to do it.

 

[miamicuse]

The University should create a figurehead position for him asap. Not sure why that couldn’t have been finalized prior to yesterday. Not difficult or burdensome.

May be they did but one JB didn't like. They may have multiple discussions but didn't come to an agreement. They may have asked him to do something not athletics, and he wants to stay close to MBB. Also Autry should have a say in whether he wants JB to stay close, it's his chance to operate on his own and he needs room. It can be difficult depending on what JB has in mind.

 

[Sbucketball]

May be they did but one JB didn't like. They may have multiple discussions but didn't come to an agreement. They may have asked him to do something not athletics, and he wants to stay close to MBB. Also Autry should have a say in whether he wants JB to stay close, it's his chance to operate on his own and he needs room. It can be difficult depending on what JB has in mind.

Things are definitely difficult with JB. My problem with this whole thing is it feels like leadership found out for the first time this month that JB is difficult. Which is poor management. I don't know what happened behind closed doors so I'll stay open-minded.

 

[Bayside44]

I just read an article that Elijah Moore knew this was a potential likelihood, and he didn't leak it.

He's 78, of course it was a potential likelihood, this isn't Jay Wright walking away with his fastball and custom suits...

 

[pokercuse08]

You said this should have been Plan B:


What ideal plan can you have for a guy who refuses to retire under any plan??... plays along then flips the script at the time of the announcement??

I have no doubt that AD and Adminstration were furious, and they had every right to be.

If he refuses leave on agreeable terms and under a planned transition announcement, you get what we saw...

There's no orchestrated plan for that, there's just immediate response and PR damage control.

The school did what they had to do. JB forced them to do it.

Yeah that's basically what I was saying, we agree. I was saying they tried to follow Plan B, but he wouldn't allow it. He forced them to Plan C.

 

[Bayside44]

Just here to agree with bnoro

K’s an insufferable loser and I still get pissed off we honored him at the dome the way we did.

Low class toolshed

That being said, at least he didnt do what Boeheim did and drag things down with him

K went from a guy who wouldn't hang a banner unless the whole class graduated to being the guy who lead the one and done charge (nevermind his gaming of the rulebook). And not like that approach served him better...

 

[pokercuse08]

Things are definitely difficult with JB. My problem with this whole thing is it feels like leadership found out for the first time this month that JB is difficult. Which is poor management. I don't know what happened behind closed doors so I'll stay open-minded.

What could they have done differently? It sure looks like he was either coaching another year or going out like this. And who's to say another year would actually mean another year.

When the difficult person is the most famous person in town with as much power as Boeheim had and direct access to national media, there's only so much you can do to prevent them from being difficult.

 

[kingtidge]

Yeah that's basically what I was saying, we agree. I was saying they tried to follow Plan B, but he wouldn't allow it. He forced them to Plan C.

full circle... no worries.

 

[Sudano]

The right thing would've been making this determination before the season, or at least BEFORE THIS GAME. Very clumsy in my opinion, and yes, disrespectful

You don't think these discussions were happening ad nauseum over the last few years?
Or at least I can see SU calling up the coach and the coach ignoring them. Who's fault is that?

 

[Sbucketball]

What could they have done differently? It sure looks like he was either coaching another year or going out like this. And who's to say another year would actually mean another year.

When the difficult person is the most famous person in town with as much power as Boeheim had and direct access to national media, there's only so much you can do to prevent them from being difficult.

I mean, I don't even know what they did (behind closed doors), so it's difficult to say what they could have done differently. But it came across poorly, and it shouldn't have. Everyone knows JB is difficult, so all I'm saying is I would have sat down and brainstormed 50 different ways this could go poorly, and then made sure it doesn't go those ways. Maybe they did that, but I can't imagine the scenario that unfolded -- in a press conference after an ACC tournament loss in JB's last game ever -- couldn't have been anticipated by someone who knows JB.

 

[pokercuse08]

Maybe they did that, but I can't imagine the scenario that unfolded -- in a press conference after an ACC tournament loss in JB's last game ever -- couldn't have been anticipated by someone who knows JB.

Sure but how do you prevent it? It sounds like you have a natural knack for this and would be an elite AD based on what you just said. So what would you have done?

 

[swish7]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that the perception you described does not exist with a large portion of the fanbase. What we're telling you is that the perception you described is completely wrong. Like, if you've never interacted with Jim Boeheim, and your perception of him is primarily what you see of him on ESPN, then he seems like a really nice guy and it's easy to draw the conclusion that he's just a bit of a to the local media now and then when he gets a stupid question, and that he's a kind and reasonable man who would do the right thing in this retirement situation.

But almost everyone who's ever ACTUALLY been round him in real life, or who knows a bunch of people who are, is telling you who the man has been for decades. I graduated in '08, and I was in the student media. I never asked him a question and I never had him be a jerk to me directly, but I saw it go on with a lot of people and heard a lot of stories. I have also heard them from ESPN people for years about what he's like when the cameras aren't on depending on whether they're an important enough member of the media to get his time of day or even a respectful response to, "Hey coach, nice to meet you."

So it's no shock to anyone who was around him the way this went down, and it's not hard to figure out how and why it went down like that and who's to blame. The perception will be what it will be. If you want to argue that the school should have bent over backwards, even more than they did the last several years, to avoid that perception... Then you can make that argument credibly. But be specific. What should they have done? How many losing seasons? How far should he have been allowed to run this into the ground, destroying his own legacy by the way? Because his success is iron-clad, but a big part of his legacy is turning Syracuse Basketball into what it is... and if it dies (at least as we know it) after he's gone, that part of his legacy is altered too.

Don't disagree w what you are saying.
My wife's uncle played for him, said he was a jerk.
A friend is a 'friend of the program', said he is cantankerous.
I met him once. He was nice to me.

Thanks for stating one can credibly argue the point I was arguing.

As to what could they do differently. I have said over and over, that perhaps they could have waited until today to resolve everything? The hasty presser terminating his future w the program was worse than JBs wishy washy post game presser.

Wait a couple days, and clarify everything, with or without JBs help.

 

[Sbucketball]

Sure but how do you prevent it? It sounds like you have a natural knack for this and would be an elite AD based on what you just said. So what would you have done?

Not sure why you're being combative with me. Nothing about my posts were personal.

I never said I'd be an elite AD or even a good AD -- it's a job I've never held. I am a litigator and a large part of my job is anticipating every risk and everything that could go wrong, and then preventing those things. My only point is the scenario that unfolded did not seem hard to predict.

Maybe one option would be to set firm plans with JB prior to the ACC tournament game, including the date of an announcement, and not leaving it open-ended when you know reporters will ask him the question after a loss, and you know how JB handles the press after loses. Maybe another is specifically telling JB not to address retirement and say that we'll address it later and today we're focusing on the team.

Leadership should have a "buck stops here" mentality, and figure out ways to manage difficult personalities.

In any event, I'll repeat what I stated above: "I don't even know what they did (behind closed doors), so it's difficult to say what they could have done differently."

 

[pokercuse08]

As to what could they do differently. I have said over and over, that perhaps they could have waited until today to resolve everything? The hasty presser terminating his future w the program was worse than JBs wishy washy post game presser.

Wait a couple days, and clarify everything, with or without JBs help.

Boeheim took that option off the table by forcing their hand via the presser and telling the team. What else you got?

 

[pokercuse08]

My only point is the scenario that unfolded did not seem hard to predict.

Easy to predict. Impossible to prevent, if that's how Boeheim wanted it to go.

Maybe one option would be to set firm plans with JB prior to the ACC tournament game, including the date of an announcement, and not leaving it open-ended when you know reporters will ask him the question after a loss, and you know how JB handles the press after loses. Maybe another is specifically telling JB not to address retirement and say that we'll address it later and today we're focusing on the team.

I'm sure they tried to do the first and he refused. Just assuming a base level of competence here. As to your second suggestion, an easy to predict outcome is that Boeheim says yeah sure whatever, then does exactly what he did.

The reason I'm giving you a hard time is because you (and several others) are looking for ways to attack the school/AD because this went poorly, and saying it's easy to have seen this coming and thus if should have been prevented. But the very reason it's easy to see coming is the reason it's impossible to prevent: Jim Boeheim is a powerful man with frequent/easy access to the national media, who is frequently difficult. If he doesn't want to play ball, there's just not much you can do.