Offense - Past, Present and Future | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Offense - Past, Present and Future

Yes it is interesting when you look at it that way. Good point

Dino era QBs:

QB1 was sacked every 28 pass plays (small sample size)
QB2 every 19.23 pass plays
QB3 every 16.11 pass plays
QB4 every 14.60 pass plays
QB5 every 14.24 pass plays
QB6 every 8.00 pass plays (true frosh during Covid year)
QB7 every 7.93 pass plays

So the question is why? How do we fix that? It is more than the OL since other QBs played with the same OL.
 
Dino era QBs:

QB1 was sacked every 28 pass plays (small sample size)
QB2 every 19.23 pass plays
QB3 every 16.11 pass plays
QB4 every 14.60 pass plays
QB5 every 14.24 pass plays
QB6 every 8.00 pass plays (true frosh during Covid year)
QB7 every 7.93 pass plays

So the question is why? How do we fix that? It is more than the OL since other QBs played with the same OL.
Consecutive years of this tells me its a culture of contentment within the group. That has to change. Its not ok to see your QB get knock down or sack. Its not ok seeing opponents talk smack and take unnecessary shots on your QB. There needs to be a nasty attitude and a sense of pride in what you do. Accountability on blitz pick ups. Im not a line guy but when the unit starts having this mentality a lot of good things can happen.
 
Dino era QBs:

QB1 was sacked every 28 pass plays (small sample size)
QB2 every 19.23 pass plays
QB3 every 16.11 pass plays
QB4 every 14.60 pass plays
QB5 every 14.24 pass plays
QB6 every 8.00 pass plays (true frosh during Covid year)
QB7 every 7.93 pass plays

So the question is why? How do we fix that? It is more than the OL since other QBs played with the same OL.
Nice.

QB sacked percentage

2020 10.79%
2019 11.43%
2018. 7.79%
2017. 6.06%
2016 6.67%

For comparison, to be smack dab in the middle (66th ranked) its about 6.25%
 
#36 rushing offense in 2018.

Dungey with 184 attempts, 754 yards , and 15 TDS. We have 3 rushing TDs this year.
 
While tempo may explain a slight increase in sacks/TFL(more opportunities), it still seems out of whack.

For giggles I checked on Kent state. While they run 60% of the time, they are averaging 1.2 sacks a game(#25), with 83 plays a game. They are #1 in total yards per game. 600 yards.

That's 1 sack for every 66 plays, or 1 sack every 26 pass plays.
 
Last edited:
Maybe I missed this but is Froumy a center? Or is that just a suggested position switch? I thought he played Tackle.
 
If you know it's an issue then you need to go out and find a JUCO center who can play.

Would love one of the NYC guys on the roster to get Matt Jones out of Ohio State. Doesn't start for them and plays center and guard.
 
If you know it's an issue then you need to go out and find a JUCO center who can play.
Not getting a C last year was puzzling. Maybe they thought they had the horses? If Serv/Vett were C1/C2 and T1/T2? Losing either was twice the Hit.
 
To provide some context that we can relate to here is SU's relative performance to the rest of D1 in the following offensive categories.

(This isn't to advocate for the merit of this set of measurements, let's keep the geek storm out of this discussion)
View attachment 192218

The grouping is based on stats measuring production, stats showing efficiency and risk, and stats that I think show the quality of OL play.

This data shows a couple of things to me,

1. Gerg was as across the board awful as I've always said.

2. Marrone's philosophy was crawl, walk, run development coming out of the gergian error; protect against the downside and play complimentary football. By 2012 he had a high volume, fast paced, full spectrum offense, it could generate big plays, stay ahead of the sticks and execute long drives, and could go get that tough yard when needed.

3. Shafer couldn't generate a pass offense and couldn't score.

4. Dino is about generating production through volume, not efficiency. His approach stresses the OL and he isn't as worried about the downside on individual plays because "we'll make it up on the back end". It focused on getting ahead on explosive plays and low number of play scoring drives, not complimentary football. When it's humming it's great, when it's not, oye. Until this year they have done at least an adequate, if not a great, job of moving the ball through the air. Except for 2018 points haven't followed, mostly because of the struggles running the ball and not having a truly elite WR to make plays in the compressed space of the redzone.

This year he can't go fast for a bunch of reasons and the per play efficiency is worse, not better. They have hit on a couple of bombs for scores, but not nearly enough to make up for the fact that they can't stay on the field most of the time.

The two biggest statistical weaknesses with Dino ball here is the inability to consistently production get in the run game and avoid negative plays.

In the run game it starts with the OL not being able to impose it's will. In my opinion the high number of negative plays is a combination of both the OL struggles and just the number of plays run.

2012 shows you can run a high volume of plays and do a tremendous job of avoiding negative plays, but you need a high performing OL to do so.

Onto the future, there are significant reasons to believe that next year there will be improvement to the point where the offense can a least be between 2018 and 2019.

Single biggest factor is the potential that the OL as a group is straightened out. Since this year "doesn't count" no change in eligibility. Years starting includes this year.

View attachment 192220

The going in assumption is that the starters will be the guys with prior starting experience and where they end up will shake out. Obviously if Servais comes back somebody would move down. And I believe that all spots are going to be subject to competition, but ties will be broken by experience. If a second unit player is better Babers can't worry about hurt feelings.

If Pat Davis comes back and White gets his health issues resolved that will be added depth. Not sure if any of the incoming kids are instant impact players, but hopefully with a solid two deep that won't be needed.

It's essential that this off season be normal. 7 of 10, including three starters, on the two deep have not been part of an off season at Syracuse. Whoever is coaching the position, they can't go another year without being able to have a normal S&C cycle and spring program.

Assuming no career ending injuries or transfers I don't think there is a crisis on the OL demanding it be addressed through the portal. What they need is to be coached up as a group with legitimate competition and depth, and to get stronger. That starting group has the experience necessary to be a functional, productive group, but the process has been backwards, playing time before seasoning. Now they need to focus on the fundamentals and getting better as a whole.

Second reason is stability at running back. I think Tucker and Hough give SU the best pair of backs since at least Smith and PTG. Jordan is the speed guy that can used as another weapon in space instead of trying to run through the A gap. Lutz has made some plays and offers depth if needed. If the offense can get back to the pace they want there are more than enough snaps to go around.

If there is a legit run game and pass protection I think Devito can excel. He has to be here to do so. If there is a reset at QB then all bets are off.

adding Tyler to the mix says that Dino is going to do whatever he can to avoid oline debacles in the future

17 oline on the roster, not counting white and P Davis. Sevais is the only one who will be out of eligibility after this upcoming season

this is just a guess but he is going to overload on ol from now on. He’s going to have to figure out how to find spots in other units
 
The high number of sacks are the number of plays run, the OL, and the design of the offense. You run 20 more plays a game than most, you are going just have more sacks per game unless your OL is really stout. And there are issues where the QB, whoever it has been, holds the ball longer than most. There seems to be less get the ball out quick and in rhythm than similar offenses.
I think this says it all, Go. Dino wants big, aggressive plays, and that means QB's have to wait for the route to develop. They ain't letting the ball go to
the first open receiver, and that has hurt us.

This is great insight, and worth a second reading. Thanks so much
 
adding Tyler to the mix says that Dino is going to do whatever he can to avoid oline debacles in the future

17 oline on the roster, not counting white and P Davis. Sevais is the only one who will be out of eligibility after this upcoming season

this is just a guess but he is going to overload on ol from now on. He’s going to have to figure out how to find spots in other units

I don’t believe this is an overload. 15-17 I think is a fairly standard benchmark. So he’s operating at normal now
 
I don’t believe this is an overload. 15-17 I think is a fairly standard benchmark. So he’s operating at normal now
Also possible he knows something we don't regarding injuries and outgoing transfers.
 
I don’t believe this is an overload. 15-17 I think is a fairly standard benchmark. So he’s operating at normal now
Agree totally.

If you work under the assumption that it takes at least 2 years to bring recruits like ours up to ACC quality on size, strength and technique then you can infer that a quality 2 deep has to be almost exclusively made up of upperclassmen

So 10 kids made up of 3rd, 4th, 5th year players means you need at least 4 recruits or transfers per class. You know you are going to lose 2-4 players before they are seniors due to injury and/or recruiting misses

This means we need to bring in at least 4 OL every year and potentially get to 20 overall on the roster. You have to build in the assumption that at least 1 kid from every cohort will not work out (injury/lack of development etc)

OL is the most sensitive unit to numbers because it’s so hard to get production before year 3 and also (insert captain obvious) five of them play at once

Figure out how to make 65 spots work for the rest of the team or figure out how to recruit NFL ready lineman or continue to battle OL depth issues
 
This quote from Servais was really telling. He said this at the very start of Spring football last year (the spring that wasn't) and spoke about fall camp (that was also cut short) ...giving us a very good indication about why our offense was such a mess (not nearly enough practice)

Said Servais: “There’s a lot of things that we’re adding or taking out from last year. We’ve got new staff and everything so I just think it’s going to be a big learning spring. Just figuring out what all of our assignments are, getting good at it, getting fast at it so when we come in for camp later, we’re almost full speed"
 
Last edited:
Has any P5 team ever appressively rotated linemen? It seems the line could benefit from a regular rotation to keep players fresh if Dino wants to increase the pace. How many linemen would it take to have two viable lines? Would there be a significant advantage?
 
Has any P5 team ever appressively rotated linemen? It seems the line could benefit from a regular rotation to keep players fresh if Dino wants to increase the pace. How many linemen would it take to have two viable lines? Would there be a significant advantage?
No. This will never happen. So much of OL is developing cohesion and getting them to work together as one unit. This happens in large part by experience together. If you tried to play two lines it would take twice as long for each unit to develop this. Also we would need twice as many capable starters and that will never happen for us at OL.
 
Consecutive years of this tells me its a culture of contentment within the group. That has to change. Its not ok to see your QB get knock down or sack. Its not ok seeing opponents talk smack and take unnecessary shots on your QB. There needs to be a nasty attitude and a sense of pride in what you do. Accountability on blitz pick ups. Im not a line guy but when the unit starts having this mentality a lot of good things can happen.

I like it everything you’re saying. I never thought about it being a culture thing.
 
No. This will never happen. So much of OL is developing cohesion and getting them to work together as one unit. This happens in large part by experience together. If you tried to play two lines it would take twice as long for each unit to develop this. Also we would need twice as many capable starters and that will never happen for us at OL.
Yes. Absolutely this. The axiom has been that the teams with offensive line units that have the most combined starts have the most successful seasons. Would like to see the data on this
 
Last edited:
New oline coach. If I were him, every job is up for grabs and I don't care who you are on the team. By the end of Spring rev 1 of depth chart made. Tell them positions are still up for grabs in August so you better hit the weights and conditioning. Make or break year. See who is the hungriest. Oline needs to elevate their level of play from last year's team a couple notches, just playing a little better won't cut it. My guess is everyone is busting their @$$ and I think we will see a surprise name or two in the rotation from Schmidt and I think Schmidt is going to have them playing well. Never under estimate the power of being able to prove oneself. I think our players know it's been bad and I would wager that they want to change the perception this year. I think that they do it.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,507
Messages
4,707,679
Members
5,908
Latest member
Cuseman17

Online statistics

Members online
257
Guests online
2,140
Total visitors
2,397


Top Bottom