Okay so the Judah play? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Okay so the Judah play?

I think he thought he could make a play and got stuck. As for not passing to JT; it's like several of the teams where we've had only one player capable of creating their own shots. Think Tyus Battle. The game's on the line and all he hears is "someone has to carry the team on their backs." It's one-on-three and hope for the best.

When Judah got stuck what he tried to do at the last second was dump it to Brown but the pass was too late, too hard and right at his face and sailed away.
 
I hate to say it, but I don’t think we’ll miss a beat with him gone. Quadir is a better penetrator. Both can’t shoot. I actually trust QC hitting a shot before JM. That slow loaded line drive shot is looking worse and worse. And NEVER has a chance of going in anymore.

Plus, when he's only hitting every other free throw, the points tally really suffers... Of course it's not just him - our FT percentage has dropped precipitously as a team in the last few games, but he gets to the line so much that the misses really pile up.
 
Fair take.

I would say he isn't meeting my expectations because, to what you alluded to, he hasn't re-calibrated to a real lead guard to raise the floor of the full team. He clearly is talented, but his decision making combined with his physical limitations equal some really uneven games.

He is producing. He is good. But he's not making the jump to what you'd want from someone who was, at least for me, thought to have AA potential.

So I think I agree with you, but I did expect him to be a better lead guard.

I'll say it this way, I've been a huge fan of Maliq since last year, but in no world did I think he would be the best player on this team, and he is, over Judah. Judah may be the most talented, but Maliq is the best.

Judah's in a weird spot. This draft is probably the least talented since 2013 and he isn't showing up on mocks as of late. His athleticism isn't going to change and I doubt he hits a growth spurt. Any improvement has to be with his decision making, his shot (which I think they can take care of in the NBA), etc. It's tough. We need guys in the NBA for our program, so I hope he makes it.

Great post.

And while "best" is subjective, I don't think it is difficult to defend Maliq being "MIP" for a variety of reasons.
 
I think that's pretty dead on.

He's the reason we're not terrible in many ways and the reason we aren't very good in other ways.

Like a Westbrook in his Triple Double days at the end of his OKC run
I’ll say this much: I think the criticism he takes here is often outrageous.

I absolutely agree that he is not an ideal lead guard from a team perspective. He’s much more score-first than we’d like and his decision-making in general all over the map. His defense and defensive efforts have been inconsistent as well. There have been stretches where he is an absolute menace defensively but far too many occasions where he’s gambling 75’ away from the basket for no reason and then not hustling to get back into the play. His shooting has been underwhelming — really thought he’d come back this year as a solid 35% on 4-5/game type shooter and that has not been the case.

But at the same time, I’m not sure how people are saying they wish he left (saw that in this thread) or blaming him for some significant portion of why we are where we are.

Consider:
  • If he left we’d be down to essentially 7 scholarship players at the moment (JJ, Taylor, Cuffe, bell, brown, Carey, Copeland). That would be bad.
  • Judah spent a good chunk of the first half of the season playing with the following lineup around him: Taylor, Bell, McLeod, JJ. With JJ struggling, that’s a lineup with two scorers. In the first 10 games he averaged 20 ppg with really good efficiency (22/game if you take Chaminade out). That helped us keep our head above water. Now, since JJ came on and we started seeing more of the Cope/Brown/benny group — I feel like Judah has become a bit more effective as a creator for others. In the past 12 games, he’s been a far less efficient scorer but has averaged 5.5 assists. My point here isn’t that he’s been a terrific PG, but that as we have put more movement around him and seen JJ knock down a few more jumpers, he’s shared the ball significantly better.
  • But I think the part that keeps me from piling on Judah specifically is this: we aren’t running much of an offense to begin with, we have a roster full of pretty limited players, our defensive approach needs off-season tweaking (we have way too many players on an island with no help), we don’t rebound the ball … this is just a team that is significantly flawed from top (that includes Judah and Red) to bottom.
So anyway, all of that leads me to the conclusion that while Judah’s season has been disappointing, I’m also firmly of the belief that he may also be the only thing standing between us and an 8 or 9-win kind of season. That doesn’t make Judah and all-American or a first-rounder. It may not even make him one of the best lead guards we’ve had here the past 10-15 years. But if we’re assigning blame for being a middling team again this season, there are many factors I’d rank far above Judah’s play and inconsistency.
 
Great post.

And while "best" is subjective, I don't think it is difficult to defend Maliq being "MIP" for a variety of reasons.
Best feels strong to me but definitely wouldn’t argue with most important. I’m always partial to glue guys for that. Q has been huge too. But I do think if you talked to opposing coaches they would say 99% of their defensive game plan was based around stopping Judah. That’s not nothing.
 
I don't think Judah has neither exceeded expectations nor fallen short. I'm in the middle. He's had stretch's/games where you go Wow. Buts also had stretch's/games where you say WTH is he doing. I know he can rack up assists sometimes if we're making outside shots but I still don't think he's grown into the PG role which is more than assists alone. I still don't see him directing the offense and getting guys in the right places at the right times and knowing when to get someone the ball and where. Part of it is he wasn't really the PG at Oak Hill. I watched several of his games and it seemed like he played SF as much if not more than the 1 or 2. Probably why he's an often a good rebounder for a PG. When Oak Hill ran he’d usually be on the wing and filling the lanes and not often leading the break.
Yes and if he wasn't a point guard there, then he shouldn't be one here.
Billy was a point guard at Oak Hill, and ran the point well in the Championship year.
Including saving the run against Oklahoma St, when he took over the game with Melo on the bench with 3 fouls.
 
Not many guys have to come to grips with testing the NBA waters then coming back for another year and then doing the same thing a year later only to find out they’re in much worse shape for the league.

There’s no way he’s not aware that his draft stock has plummeted and with how the season is shaping up it’s not looking to get better. That would weigh heavily on anyone.

I’m not saying it’s ok. Just saying that he’s got some major self reflection to do and that’s not so easy to do playing league games every 3 days in Feb.
Perfectly stated.
 
And there’s no excuse for it. There’s no way he’s 6-4, so let’s say he’s 6-2. Unless he’s been that height since middle school, how does a player of his size not have PG skills?

I know he’s had some high assist games. In general, he doesn’t know how to run an offense, doesn’t make good decisions, and struggles against the press.
He was measured in NBA camp was 6’3.75, almost 6’4”
 
I’ll say this much: I think the criticism he takes here is often outrageous.

I absolutely agree that he is not an ideal lead guard from a team perspective. He’s much more score-first than we’d like and his decision-making in general all over the map. His defense and defensive efforts have been inconsistent as well. There have been stretches where he is an absolute menace defensively but far too many occasions where he’s gambling 75’ away from the basket for no reason and then not hustling to get back into the play. His shooting has been underwhelming — really thought he’d come back this year as a solid 35% on 4-5/game type shooter and that has not been the case.

But at the same time, I’m not sure how people are saying they wish he left (saw that in this thread) or blaming him for some significant portion of why we are where we are.

Consider:
  • If he left we’d be down to essentially 7 scholarship players at the moment (JJ, Taylor, Cuffe, bell, brown, Carey, Copeland). That would be bad.
  • Judah spent a good chunk of the first half of the season playing with the following lineup around him: Taylor, Bell, McLeod, JJ. With JJ struggling, that’s a lineup with two scorers. In the first 10 games he averaged 20 ppg with really good efficiency (22/game if you take Chaminade out). That helped us keep our head above water. Now, since JJ came on and we started seeing more of the Cope/Brown/benny group — I feel like Judah has become a bit more effective as a creator for others. In the past 12 games, he’s been a far less efficient scorer but has averaged 5.5 assists. My point here isn’t that he’s been a terrific PG, but that as we have put more movement around him and seen JJ knock down a few more jumpers, he’s shared the ball significantly better.
  • But I think the part that keeps me from piling on Judah specifically is this: we aren’t running much of an offense to begin with, we have a roster full of pretty limited players, our defensive approach needs off-season tweaking (we have way too many players on an island with no help), we don’t rebound the ball … this is just a team that is significantly flawed from top (that includes Judah and Red) to bottom.
So anyway, all of that leads me to the conclusion that while Judah’s season has been disappointing, I’m also firmly of the belief that he may also be the only thing standing between us and an 8 or 9-win kind of season. That doesn’t make Judah and all-American or a first-rounder. It may not even make him one of the best lead guards we’ve had here the past 10-15 years. But if we’re assigning blame for being a middling team again this season, there are many factors I’d rank far above Judah’s play and inconsistency.
This was a rebuilding year anyway. Had Mintz left last year, Williams probably would have left, too. IMO, that’s addition by subtraction. (Yes, both of them.) I would have accepted a losing season if the end result was maximizing the development of the other players, especially Starling and Copeland.
 
Judah is a good, sometimes very good combo guard- the kind that JB favored over his last few seasons. He always thought he could convert them to "true" pgs, and it wasn't always the case.
Judah's game is one dimensional: Drive to hoop, usually to his right, and hope to get fouled. He's got a decent midrange game which he doesn't utilize enough, but his biggest failing is as a passer.
He's usually going downhill towards the hoop, doesn't have the most athletic hops, and is unwilling to pull up for a J, so its more than likely he'll get caught up in no-man's-land w/ either a no call, or a turnover.
Not here to bash him, but he yaps a bit too much for my liking. I want my PG to be cerebral, focused, dependable, predictable, and running the show. Although he's a good player, that is NOT Judah Mintz.
 
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I’ll say this much: I think the criticism he takes here is often outrageous.

I absolutely agree that he is not an ideal lead guard from a team perspective. He’s much more score-first than we’d like and his decision-making in general all over the map. His defense and defensive efforts have been inconsistent as well. There have been stretches where he is an absolute menace defensively but far too many occasions where he’s gambling 75’ away from the basket for no reason and then not hustling to get back into the play. His shooting has been underwhelming — really thought he’d come back this year as a solid 35% on 4-5/game type shooter and that has not been the case.

But at the same time, I’m not sure how people are saying they wish he left (saw that in this thread) or blaming him for some significant portion of why we are where we are.

Consider:
  • If he left we’d be down to essentially 7 scholarship players at the moment (JJ, Taylor, Cuffe, bell, brown, Carey, Copeland). That would be bad.
  • Judah spent a good chunk of the first half of the season playing with the following lineup around him: Taylor, Bell, McLeod, JJ. With JJ struggling, that’s a lineup with two scorers. In the first 10 games he averaged 20 ppg with really good efficiency (22/game if you take Chaminade out). That helped us keep our head above water. Now, since JJ came on and we started seeing more of the Cope/Brown/benny group — I feel like Judah has become a bit more effective as a creator for others. In the past 12 games, he’s been a far less efficient scorer but has averaged 5.5 assists. My point here isn’t that he’s been a terrific PG, but that as we have put more movement around him and seen JJ knock down a few more jumpers, he’s shared the ball significantly better.
  • But I think the part that keeps me from piling on Judah specifically is this: we aren’t running much of an offense to begin with, we have a roster full of pretty limited players, our defensive approach needs off-season tweaking (we have way too many players on an island with no help), we don’t rebound the ball … this is just a team that is significantly flawed from top (that includes Judah and Red) to bottom.
So anyway, all of that leads me to the conclusion that while Judah’s season has been disappointing, I’m also firmly of the belief that he may also be the only thing standing between us and an 8 or 9-win kind of season. That doesn’t make Judah and all-American or a first-rounder. It may not even make him one of the best lead guards we’ve had here the past 10-15 years. But if we’re assigning blame for being a middling team again this season, there are many factors I’d rank far above Judah’s play and inconsistency.
I think the question is, and it’s prob not one he will answer in college, is can he play with other talented players. The ball pounding he does here may very well be due to the instruction he gets and the talent around him, for sure, but we’ve also seen players who can’t adjust their play when surrounded by players just as talented as them
 
This was a rebuilding year anyway. Had Mintz left last year, Williams probably would have left, too. IMO, that’s addition by subtraction. (Yes, both of them.) I would have accepted a losing season if the end result was maximizing the development of the other players, especially Starling and Copeland.
So you think our record would be better without those two? Genuinely asking, not trying to troll. I don’t and I don’t believe anyone here would have been ok if we were on pace to with 7 or 8 games total. This board is in meltdown mode at 15-8 — not blaming people, just saying we’re all a mess with being on the outside looking in at the tourney.

Judah is frustrating — sometimes incredibly frustrating. But he’s not without significant value to this team.
 
I’ll say this much: I think the criticism he takes here is often outrageous.

I absolutely agree that he is not an ideal lead guard from a team perspective. He’s much more score-first than we’d like and his decision-making in general all over the map. His defense and defensive efforts have been inconsistent as well. There have been stretches where he is an absolute menace defensively but far too many occasions where he’s gambling 75’ away from the basket for no reason and then not hustling to get back into the play. His shooting has been underwhelming — really thought he’d come back this year as a solid 35% on 4-5/game type shooter and that has not been the case.

But at the same time, I’m not sure how people are saying they wish he left (saw that in this thread) or blaming him for some significant portion of why we are where we are.

Consider:
  • If he left we’d be down to essentially 7 scholarship players at the moment (JJ, Taylor, Cuffe, bell, brown, Carey, Copeland). That would be bad.
  • Judah spent a good chunk of the first half of the season playing with the following lineup around him: Taylor, Bell, McLeod, JJ. With JJ struggling, that’s a lineup with two scorers. In the first 10 games he averaged 20 ppg with really good efficiency (22/game if you take Chaminade out). That helped us keep our head above water. Now, since JJ came on and we started seeing more of the Cope/Brown/benny group — I feel like Judah has become a bit more effective as a creator for others. In the past 12 games, he’s been a far less efficient scorer but has averaged 5.5 assists. My point here isn’t that he’s been a terrific PG, but that as we have put more movement around him and seen JJ knock down a few more jumpers, he’s shared the ball significantly better.
  • But I think the part that keeps me from piling on Judah specifically is this: we aren’t running much of an offense to begin with, we have a roster full of pretty limited players, our defensive approach needs off-season tweaking (we have way too many players on an island with no help), we don’t rebound the ball … this is just a team that is significantly flawed from top (that includes Judah and Red) to bottom.
So anyway, all of that leads me to the conclusion that while Judah’s season has been disappointing, I’m also firmly of the belief that he may also be the only thing standing between us and an 8 or 9-win kind of season. That doesn’t make Judah and all-American or a first-rounder. It may not even make him one of the best lead guards we’ve had here the past 10-15 years. But if we’re assigning blame for being a middling team again this season, there are many factors I’d rank far above Judah’s play and inconsistency.
This is a reasonable take.
 
I think the question is, and it’s prob not one he will answer in college, is can he play with other talented players. The ball pounding he does here may very well be due to the instruction he gets and the talent around him, for sure, but we’ve also seen players who can’t adjust their play when surrounded by players just as talented as them
Agreed. Not sure his game will translate to the pros. When you watch opponents defend us here, however, there are usually two defenders helping and clogging the lane when he’s dribbling. Some of that is lack of creativity in offensive design. Some of it is Judah’s so-so jumper. And some of that is teams not respecting other offensive threats on the floor. Not saying Judah has been great but this isn’t simply a story of selfishness, imo.
 
So you think our record would be better without those two? Genuinely asking, not trying to troll. I don’t and I don’t believe anyone here would have been ok if we were on pace to with 7 or 8 games total. This board is in meltdown mode at 15-8 — not blaming people, just saying we’re all a mess with being on the outside looking in at the tourney.

Judah is frustrating — sometimes incredibly frustrating. But he’s not without significant value to this team.
No, I don’t think our record would be better without them. Yes, I would have been OK with that.

While I can’t speak for anyone else, I’m not in meltdown mode at all. I just don’t care for Mintz as a player. I’ve had issues with him all year. He’s regressed during conference play.
 
Agreed. Not sure his game will translate to the pros. When you watch opponents defend us here, however, there are usually two defenders helping and clogging the lane when he’s dribbling. Some of that is lack of creativity in offensive design. Some of it is Judah’s so-so jumper. And some of that is teams not respecting other offensive threats on the floor. Not saying Judah has been great but this isn’t simply a story of selfishness, imo.

If by pros you mean NBA, it won’t.

Period.

Check Givoney, the ringer, etc if you don’t believe me.

I concede his shot can get better when he isn’t taking geology 105.

This is one of the worst drafts ever in modern times and he can’t get on the board consistently.

He doesn’t have elite athleticism. His decision making isn’t elite.

I hope I’m wrong bc we need him in the NBA for recruiting.

Hes a talented kid. He puts up numbers. But he hasn’t taken the leap he needed.
 
I’ll say this much: I think the criticism he takes here is often outrageous.

I absolutely agree that he is not an ideal lead guard from a team perspective. He’s much more score-first than we’d like and his decision-making in general all over the map. His defense and defensive efforts have been inconsistent as well. There have been stretches where he is an absolute menace defensively but far too many occasions where he’s gambling 75’ away from the basket for no reason and then not hustling to get back into the play. His shooting has been underwhelming — really thought he’d come back this year as a solid 35% on 4-5/game type shooter and that has not been the case.

But at the same time, I’m not sure how people are saying they wish he left (saw that in this thread) or blaming him for some significant portion of why we are where we are.

Consider:
  • If he left we’d be down to essentially 7 scholarship players at the moment (JJ, Taylor, Cuffe, bell, brown, Carey, Copeland). That would be bad.
  • Judah spent a good chunk of the first half of the season playing with the following lineup around him: Taylor, Bell, McLeod, JJ. With JJ struggling, that’s a lineup with two scorers. In the first 10 games he averaged 20 ppg with really good efficiency (22/game if you take Chaminade out). That helped us keep our head above water. Now, since JJ came on and we started seeing more of the Cope/Brown/benny group — I feel like Judah has become a bit more effective as a creator for others. In the past 12 games, he’s been a far less efficient scorer but has averaged 5.5 assists. My point here isn’t that he’s been a terrific PG, but that as we have put more movement around him and seen JJ knock down a few more jumpers, he’s shared the ball significantly better.
  • But I think the part that keeps me from piling on Judah specifically is this: we aren’t running much of an offense to begin with, we have a roster full of pretty limited players, our defensive approach needs off-season tweaking (we have way too many players on an island with no help), we don’t rebound the ball … this is just a team that is significantly flawed from top (that includes Judah and Red) to bottom.
So anyway, all of that leads me to the conclusion that while Judah’s season has been disappointing, I’m also firmly of the belief that he may also be the only thing standing between us and an 8 or 9-win kind of season. That doesn’t make Judah and all-American or a first-rounder. It may not even make him one of the best lead guards we’ve had here the past 10-15 years. But if we’re assigning blame for being a middling team again this season, there are many factors I’d rank far above Judah’s play and inconsistency.

I respect this take. But we’ve also been pretty mediocre for a decade.

His job was to make everyone better. It’s not all his fault by any means.

But he’s a talent, but it’s isolated. He’s not raising our floor.

So he’s good. Got talent. I wanted him to stay.

But it’s not like if he left, nothing else changes. That’s not the way this works.
 
Plus, when he's only hitting every other free throw, the points tally really suffers... Of course it's not just him - our FT percentage has dropped precipitously as a team in the last few games, but he gets to the line so much that the misses really pile up.
Really ridiculous how poor he’s been of late from the stripe
 
Judah's mind sometimes appears more on the cameras and his "brand" vs. the flow of the game and what basketball play the moment calls for.
He gets lost in some kind of self-absorbed alternative reality.
Debatable, but that's my explanation for the crazy plays he makes like that.
 
Judah is a good, sometimes very good combo guard- the kind that JB favored over his last few seasons. He always thought he could convert them to "true" pgs, and it wasn't always the case.
Judah's game is one dimensional: Drive to hoop, usually to his right, and hope to get fouled. He's got a decent midrange game which he doesn't utilize enough, but his biggest failing is as a passer.
He's usually going downhill towards the hoop, doesn't have the most athletic hops, and is unwilling to pull up for a J, so its more than likely he'll get caught up in no-man's-land w/ either a no call, or a turnover.
Not here to bash him, but he yaps a bit too much for my liking. I want my PG to be cerebral, focused, dependable, predictable, and running the show. Although he's a good player, that is NOT Judah Mintz.
You don‘t think he has athletic hops? He has elite hops, speed and body control for his size and ability to move in air and draw fouls. He has elite mid range game and yes he could do more here and improve his passing defense etc. he is a sophomore and a combo guard, not a pass first PG
 

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