OT: LOL @ Cowboys

[Orangezoo]

Actually the NFL apologized only on a separate holding call not the whole PI mess. Lions didn't get screwed. They actually got the no call on a clear hold on Witten on the winning drive. By definition if the Lions got screwed.. so did the Cowboys vs Green Bay. Neither rings true. Detroit had the lead.. and had a shot defensively and offensively to win it. Failed at both. Refs didn't do that.

 

[Briancuse]

Actually the NFL apologized only on a separate holding call not the whole PI mess. Lions didn't get screwed. They actually got the no call on a clear hold on Witten on the winning drive. By definition if the Lions got screwed.. so did the Cowboys vs Green Bay. Neither rings true. Detroit had the lead.. and had a shot defensively and offensively to win it. Failed at both. Refs didn't do that.

The lions had a bad call go against them, and they should have gone for it on 4th and one. The Cowboys had an equally bad call against them, on the Terrance Williams pi call, where he was pushed into the guy. What did the Cowboys do? Scored a td on the next play.

 

[Orangezoo]

There was 8 minutes to go in game when the call was made, and the thing that no one even brings up, is that Suh never should have played in that game.

This was key. Yet it is on par with the NFL's whole approach this year. They change their story faster than Obama.

 

[orange79]

they would've called that a catch on the sideline

I don't think that's the case. Not if he went to the ground in the same way and bobbled the ball in the same way he did. Doesn't matter if it's inbounds or OOB.

 

[Orangezoo]

I don't think that's the case. Not if he went to the ground in the same way and bobbled the ball in the same way he did. Doesn't matter if it's inbounds or OOB.

Based on how the rule is written the bobble shouldn't matter since he regained possession in bounds and the ball never touched the turf again.

 

[orange79]

Based on how the rule is written the bobble shouldn't matter since he regained possession in bounds and the ball never touched the turf again.

I don't think that's the case. It doesn't matter if the ball hit the ground or not after it popped into the air. He did not maintain possession when he hit the ground in the first place. Inbounds or OOB.

 

[Orangezoo]

He actually maintained possession until he rolled over. The ball was pinned next to his helmet and then came loose and he then secured it before it hit the ground. When you read through it... the play falls in the cracks. So it is a judgment call vs clearly identified in the rule book. All year if its a judgment call with no sure fire evidence of being one way or the other the call stands as called on the field. Neither the process via the football move or the maintaining control language of the rules clearly apply to this call. Its somewhat stuck in between. It is one of those that seems it can't really be more than called as it is on the field given not really "fitting" the rulebook.

Here is how it reads in the rulebook :

Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass.
A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward
pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands
; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to
perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it,
advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).
Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long
enough to do so.
Note
2: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of
possession. He must lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession.
If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body other than his hands
to the ground, or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, it is not a catch.
Item 1: Player Going to the Ground.
If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or
without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball
throughout the process of contacting
the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches
the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching
the ground, the pass is complete.

 

[SU2NASA]

How should they have lost that game?

 

[Symphony Steve]

Bottom line, two controversial calls. One, a clear penalty waved off w/o explanation. The other, a correct application of a rule, albeit an imperfect one.

The only real issue is whether the Lions got screwed. They did. The Cowboys got one more week than they deserved. They're done.

I, for one, will shed no tears.

 

[Orangezoo]

Freeze frame every single offensive possession every single game and you will find a hold.

 

[Orangezoo]

Bottom line, two controversial calls. One, a clear penalty waved off w/o explanation. The other, a correct application of a rule, albeit an imperfect one.

The only real issue is whether the Lions got screwed. They did. The Cowboys got one more week than they deserved. They're done.

I, for one, will shed no tears.

Bottom line.. no. Your opinion.. yes.

 

[Orangezoo]

Neither of the two holds you are trying to show... are holds. Suh is using his arm to get over the olineman so at this moment it looks like a hold. If the lineman grabs the pads or jersey or closelines him its a hold. If he disengages and tries to re-engage its not. The other one the lineman is driving the outside rusher away. Again it looks like a hold and it is not. You will see pictures as such nearly every single down. As well as true holds to boot. There was a great article by a former giants offensive lineman talking about it. Its really as bad as the catch rules. Needs to be amended. And then again... its hard to understand half these rules anymore the way the NFL goes.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Bottom line.. no. Your opinion.. yes.

Wrong. Even the Head of Officiating admitted that a penalty should have been called on the Cowboys. Not my opinion, the league's opinion.

 

[Orangezoo]

Wrong. Even the Head of Officiating admitted that a penalty should have been called on the Cowboys. Not my opinion, the league's opinion.

The head of officiating stated the Lions got screwed? Admitting to a mistake does not mean they got screwed. That part is all you. So again your opinion. And honestly since when this year has the head of anything in the NFL gotten things right?

 

[Symphony Steve]

Here's the article:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story...-missed-vs-dallas-cowboys-lb-anthony-hitchens

Here's the key excerpt:

"NFL head of officials Dean Blandino said Monday that the non-call on pass interference against Detroit Lions tight end Brandon Pettigrew by Dallas Cowboys linebacker Anthony Hitchens was debatable, but holding definitely should have been called on the play...

Blandino said that when he reviewed the play, it appeared as a "judgment call that could have gone either way." But he saw a clear "jersey grab" by Hitchens that should have resulted in a defensive holding call that "should have been called."

Feel free to call it 'my opinion'. It was also the opinion of the guy who partied on the Cowboys' party bus. And who is the NFL's Head of Officiating.

 

[SU2NASA]

Neither of the two holds you are trying to show... are holds. Suh is using his arm to get over the olineman so at this moment it looks like a hold. If the lineman grabs the pads or jersey or closelines him its a hold. If he disengages and tries to re-engage its not. The other one the lineman is driving the outside rusher away. Again it looks like a hold and it is not. You will see pictures as such nearly every single down. As well as true holds to boot. There was a great article by a former giants offensive lineman talking about it. Its really as bad as the catch rules. Needs to be amended. And then again... its hard to understand half these rules anymore the way the NFL goes.

Keep telling yourself that.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/201...ssed-holding-dallas-cowboys-fourth-conversion

"The NFL admitted to the Detroit Lions on Tuesday that officials missed a blatant hold on Ndamukong Suh on a crucial fourth-down conversion from Tony Romo to Jason Witten with six minutes left in Sunday's wild-card game."

 

[Orangezoo]

Here's the article:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story...-missed-vs-dallas-cowboys-lb-anthony-hitchens

Here's the key excerpt:

"NFL head of officials Dean Blandino said Monday that the non-call on pass interference against Detroit Lions tight end Brandon Pettigrew by Dallas Cowboys linebacker Anthony Hitchens was debatable, but holding definitely should have been called on the play...

Blandino said that when he reviewed the play, it appeared as a "judgment call that could have gone either way." But he saw a clear "jersey grab" by Hitchens that should have resulted in a defensive holding call that "should have been called."

Feel free to call it 'my opinion'. It was also the opinion of the guy who partied on the Cowboys' party bus. And who is the NFL's Head of Officiating.

Your opinion is they got screwed and the Lions deserved a win right? So where does the NFL say that? I've seen the articles fellas but what if's are not absolutes. Steratore didn't give up 24 and fail to score more than 20. How many times do we jump on the refs in cuse games.. based upon what ifs? hate hate hate...

 

[Orangezoo]

Keep telling yourself that.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/201...ssed-holding-dallas-cowboys-fourth-conversion

"The NFL admitted to the Detroit Lions on Tuesday that officials missed a blatant hold on Ndamukong Suh on a crucial fourth-down conversion from Tony Romo to Jason Witten with six minutes left in Sunday's wild-card game."

Absolutely I will because the NFL's management has executed poor judgment and spewed more crap and spin in reaction to public opinion than I can ever remember. Its been a rough couple years for both the NFL and the NCAA.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Your opinion is they got screwed and the Lions deserved a win right? So where does the NFL say that? I've seen the articles fellas but what if's are not absolutes. Steratore didn't give up 24 and fail to score more than 20. How many times do we jump on the refs in cuse games.. based upon what ifs? hate hate hate...

You're putting words in my mouth now. I no more said that the Lions deserved to win than I said that the Packers deserved to win. Just pointed out two controversial calls, one which the Director of Officiating said was screwed up and one which all the officials said was the correct call.

The NFL may hold no credibility with you, they hold little with me, but their views are the only ones that count when it comes to determining correct calls.

Not sure why you're playing these semantic games, but don't put words in my mouth. I can put my foot in my own mouth far more easily than you can do it for me (Don't believe me? Check out the Rob Konrad thread).

 

[jvbj01]

Cowboy fans sure sounded different last week when a call went their way.

And you sound like you again watched a game where your team wasn't playing.

 

[Orangezoo]

You're putting words in my mouth now. I no more said that the Lions deserved to win than I said that the Packers deserved to win. Just pointed out two controversial calls, one which the Director of Officiating said was screwed up and one which all the officials said was the correct call.

The NFL may hold no credibility with you, they hold little with me, but their views are the only ones that count when it comes to determining correct calls.

Not sure why you're playing these semantic games, but don't put words in my mouth. I can put my foot in my own mouth far more easily than you can do it for me (Don't believe me? Check out the Rob Konrad thread).

I did put words in your mouth just as you spun an opinion as an absolute. Good for you on the other thread. Id be happy to have a test of humility considering once again you're laying claim to something so matter of factly. Im only referring to what you posted not you personally so drop the you know enough about me to make such an assumption. I was merely contesting a rule and opinions of it. If it affected you personally i apologize as it was not intended to. Enjoy tonights game and cheers to better days for SU football.

 

[Scooch]

What's more likely - a business with billions of dollars at stake, with 10s of millions on individual playoff games, sits back and let whatever happens happen, or that they would try to influence games to have a financially beneficial outcome? I wouldn't call them outright fixed, but it isn't hard to try and push a game toward an outcome. It's not just calls made, it's calls not made that can dictate the entire way a game is played (not calling holding so letting an offensive line play more aggressive), and think how many big plays are called back because of holding calls, or how many drives are extended and into scoring territory because of a key pass interference of holding call. It really doesn't take much.

Nah.

NFL ratings are enormous. The matchup only affects it at the margins, especially once we get to the conference championships and Super Bowl.

There's not nearly enough upside to "fix" a game vs. the catastrophic downside if said "fix" was discovered.

I get that conspiracy theories are fun and all, but the economics don't support doing it.

 

[jvbj01]

100%. I loathe the Cowboys and temper tantrum Dez.

As a NYG fan, I took great pleasure in knowing the Cowboys continue to be irrelevant in the postseason.

5 > 4

I am a Cowboys fan and I think the rule is ridiculous. He took three steps. That being said, they had several opportunities to slam the door shut. The Murray fumble was huge. The missed fg hurt. How they didn't recover the fumbled kickoff was beyond me. Also, they had an opportunity to stop the Packers on the last drive and did not get it done.

It stings, but I they are one of the youngest teams in the NFL and have a bright future. The Eagles are a big threat, but the Giants and Redskins both suck. And are not getting any better.

 

[Scooch]

I'll also add to what I just posted...

The ratings of games are not directly monetized by the league, but rather by their TV partners (aside from the NFL Network games).

So "fixing" games would only have an indirect benefit to the league. Means influencing the outcome of specific games would be done in cahoots with four global media companies.

Again, so not worth it.

And hell, if this were reality why on earth would the league prefer the Colts to Manning/Brady? And the Cowboys are the most popular team in football by a good margin, why haven't they been in the conference champ game in ages if puppet masters are pulling strings?

 

[Briancuse]

That guy in the picture never should have been playing in the first place.