OT-MNF Damar Hamlin emergency

[samspann1]

ESPN needs to come clean on the 5 min comment.

NFL are the ones who need to come clean

 

[samspann1]

NFL are the ones who need to come clean

Sounds like ESPN is standing by their comments:

 

[RF2044]

That seems somewhat encouraging. Or maybe I’m trying to read it that way. I’m not sure that release a statement if it’s dire.

I interpreted it the same way -- fingers crossed.

 

[Scooch]

I know the NFL is run by some pretty vile people, and I rarely cut it any slack, but I think it's a bit wrong to be trashing them about the restart/suspension stuff.

I've been watching football for decades and it's always been the same procedure: horrific injury, short delay, game on.

I don't doubt that as the ambulance was leaving the field there were officials (both on field and in NYC) who were blindly following that procedure. And that was wrong obviously. But thankfully Taylor was the voice of compassion and the process very quickly changed. Ultimately the right thing was done, even if there was chaos in a very chaotic moment. It'd be different if the league forced the teams to play, but they didn't, and that's what mattered.

 

[samspann1]

 

[Orangepace]

I know the NFL is run by some pretty vile people, and I rarely cut it any slack, but I think it's a bit wrong to be trashing them about the restart/suspension stuff.

I've been watching football for decades and it's always been the same procedure: horrific injury, short delay, game on.

I don't doubt that as the ambulance was leaving the field there were officials (both on field and in NYC) who were blindly following that procedure. And that was wrong obviously. But thankfully Taylor was the voice of compassion and the process very quickly changed. Ultimately the right thing was done, even if there was chaos in a very chaotic moment. It'd be different if the league forced the teams to play, but they didn't, and that's what mattered.

I agree. Grace, in this instance, is warranted for the NFL. There is a good chance that those responsible for making the calls weren’t even tuned into the game. Given the number of parties involved, cooler heads prevailed and the right call was made. This was an unprecedented moment and people were in shock trying to make a real time decision when they couldn’t even grasp what had happened in the moment.

I actually think that given everything happening so quickly, ESPN deserves a massive hat tip for their job covering and trying to keep everyone informed while also acknowledging and never taking the spotlight off the most important part, a human life. They scrapped all segments and dedicated the entirety of Sportcenter, following SVP and RC coverage, away from the Tulane victory; a Donovan Mitchell 71 pt game; and Purdue losing to Rutgers. Bravo to all involved there.

 

[AZOrange]

I know the NFL is run by some pretty vile people, and I rarely cut it any slack, but I think it's a bit wrong to be trashing them about the restart/suspension stuff.

I've been watching football for decades and it's always been the same procedure: horrific injury, short delay, game on.

I don't doubt that as the ambulance was leaving the field there were officials (both on field and in NYC) who were blindly following that procedure. And that was wrong obviously. But thankfully Taylor was the voice of compassion and the process very quickly changed. Ultimately the right thing was done, even if there was chaos in a very chaotic moment. It'd be different if the league forced the teams to play, but they didn't, and that's what mattered.

Agreed. Context matters. Although the NFL should admit to the early careless decision.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Does anyone else just kind of feel weird right now?

Despite last night's horrific event, I still really want the Bills to win the Super Bowl (no sense in pretending I don't). But every time I have a thought in my head like "hmm I wonder what will happen with that game since home-field advantage is at stake" I circle back to feeling like a POS because that shouldn't matter when a human life is hanging in the balance. Like I'm trying to force myself not to care about football, but it's hard because I still do.

I keep wondering about the folks from out of town who ponyed up thousands of dollars to get tickets and a place to stay. I’m sure the bengals will do right by them for tickets, but the hotels aren’t going to give them another night for free if they do reschedule this game. And I feel like a jerk for thinking like this because a young man, just 5 yrs older than my own son, nearly died in front of our eyes.

So yeah, I get your unease.

 

[DPCuse]

Does anyone else just kind of feel weird right now?

Despite last night's horrific event, I still really want the Bills to win the Super Bowl (no sense in pretending I don't). But every time I have a thought in my head like "hmm I wonder what will happen with that game since home-field advantage is at stake" I circle back to feeling like a POS because that shouldn't matter when a human life is hanging in the balance. Like I'm trying to force myself not to care about football, but it's hard because I still do.

Very weird. Putting Hamlin aside for a moment (which admittedly feels very wrong) but I was trying to put myself in the shoes of an NFL league office executive knowing teams are trying to figure out home field advantage. Others are just trying to get in the playoffs and are relying on the Bills and Bengals last game next week. How do you manage all the scheduling for next week? If the Bills and Bengals don't finish this game, how is their record compared to everyone else's? Do you delay the playoffs a week and remove that extra week between the conference championships and Super Bowl?

 

[GoSU96]

I think what was most shocking to me last night that has remained was the raw emotion on all the players' faces.

I've obviously seen previous stuff happen on the field of play that have been bad, but this seemed raw to the point of arresting my usual stream of thought (that would obviously be worried about the player, what's happening next, etc).

This was more than 'I know bad things can happen during sporting events' and ventured into 'jim carrey realizing he was in a pretend life in The Truman Show' type level, ya know?

Like you, I'll still watch football... but this was one of those "I feel like I'm going to remember where I was when this happened" moments. It really broke the facade for me more than usual. It's almost like I feel like I'm grandfathered in to enjoying football like I had older family members watching/enjoying boxing no matter what they would see in the ring (they grew up with it being one of the biggest sports in America).

This incident has nothing to do with the sport of football inherently . How many plays a year for how many years and how often has it happened?

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

MY guess? Week 18 happens as scheduled. After those games end, if that Bills - Bengals game is still needed to determine the bye (it may well be), then the game is somehow shoehorned in somewhere, possibly pushing the playoffs a week if that is ultimately determined to be needed. If the bye is already locked up, I wouldnt be surprised if they just punt on that one since both teams are in and that particular game wouldnt keep anyone in or out of the playoffs nor would it determine the bye.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Play the weekend games to see if last night‘s will have any bearing in the standings.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Play the weekend games to see if last night‘s will have any bearing in the standings.

That's basically what I was saying. If the game wont affect the bye, or who makes the playoffs, i'd let it go. The ONLY thing that would be the biggest issue would be home field if those two teams play which may go to a coin flip

 

[IthacaBarrel]

That's basically what I was saying. If the game wont affect the bye, or who makes the playoffs, i'd let it go. The ONLY thing that would be the biggest issue would be home field if those two teams play which may go to a coin flip

Just talking football and not overlooking what truly matters here

Assuming that KC holds serve and beats Oakland...

it kind of depends on what the Bills do, if they beat the Pats then maybe they want to play Cinci because if they did win versus New England and Cinci would give them a bye and home field. But you have to play another game to get the bye? Is that really worth it? But the 2 seed could be settled if Cinci and Buff do play at some point

If the game is just cancelled then KC would be the 1 seed even though they lost to Buffalo but they on paper would have the better record but Cinci might want play and try to beat Buffalo for the 2 seed if they are only a game back after this week.

If KC were to lose you have a mess on your hands even bigger one than you do know.

Personally, I think they play this week and just seed accordingly without ever playing the Cinci/ Buff game going to be too difficult to schedule, IMO.

but playing this weekend definitely cuts down on some of the hypotheticals one would think? Then again who knows?

 

[Cusefan95]

I've been watching football for decades and it's always been the same procedure: horrific injury, short delay, game on.

I don't doubt that as the ambulance was leaving the field there were officials (both on field and in NYC) who were blindly following that procedure. And that was wrong obviously. But thankfully Taylor was the voice of compassion and the process very quickly changed. Ultimately the right thing was done, even if there was chaos in a very chaotic moment. It'd be different if the league forced the teams to play, but they didn't, and that's what mattered.

I cannot possibly disagree more that “it was wrong, obviously”. One of the roles I’ve had in my career was the leader of the first responder team at a manufacturing site in the middle of nowhere. We were going to be the medical staff for at least thirty minutes until an ambulance arrived. One of the most important rules we had was if there’s a procedure to follow - follow it. Didn’t matter how stupid it seemed, the absolutely WORST thing that can happen is people starting to do what they think is right but that violates procedure, because then it turns into chaos and makes the situation worse.

As an example, people are upset the NFL didn’t just immediately cancel the game. Let’s say they did - now you’d have thousands of people leaving the stadium and clogging up the roads - making it harder for the ambulance to get to the hospital. If someone at the stadium had decided to “do the right thing” and immediate announce the game was cancelled, he/she could have inadvertently negatively impacted survival odds. I’m almost certain the NFL had “cancelled” the game well before it was announced, in order to make sure the ambulance made it to the hospital ASAP.

They possibly stuck to telling players 5 minutes to warm up just to give the medical personnel space. One of the biggest challenges in a medical emergency is people with heightened emotions often want to help but do crazy stuff that is the complete opposite of help. I’d rather have Joe Burrow and Josh Allen pointlessly throwing a football than trying to help me.


And I’ve been in that situation mandating procedure be followed to the “T”, and having people think I was an inconsiderate, uncompassionate a**h***. Totally get that’s how many people feel about NFL officials right now - I can assure you that the ones in charge of crisis management at the NFL don’t care because they know they did the right things to maximize survival odds.

 

[Orangepace]

I cannot possibly disagree more that “it was wrong, obviously”. One of the roles I’ve had in my career was the leader of the first responder team at a manufacturing site in the middle of nowhere. We were going to be the medical staff for at least thirty minutes until an ambulance arrived. One of the most important rules we had was if there’s a procedure to follow - follow it. Didn’t matter how stupid it seemed, the absolutely WORST thing that can happen is people starting to do what they think is right but that violates procedure, because then it turns into chaos and makes the situation worse.

As an example, people are upset the NFL didn’t just immediately cancel the game. Let’s say they did - now you’d have thousands of people leaving the stadium and clogging up the roads - making it harder for the ambulance to get to the hospital. If someone at the stadium had decided to “do the right thing” and immediate announce the game was cancelled, he/she could have inadvertently negatively impacted survival odds. I’m almost certain the NFL had “cancelled” the game well before it was announced, in order to make sure the ambulance made it to the hospital ASAP.

They possibly stuck to telling players 5 minutes to warm up just to give the medical personnel space. One of the biggest challenges in a medical emergency is people with heightened emotions often want to help but do crazy stuff that is the complete opposite of help. I’d rather have Joe Burrow and Josh Allen pointlessly throwing a football than trying to help me.


And I’ve been in that situation mandating procedure be followed to the “T”, and having people think I was an inconsiderate, uncompassionate a**h***. Totally get that’s how many people feel about NFL officials right now - I can assure you that the ones in charge of crisis management at the NFL don’t care because they know they did the right things to maximize survival odds.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I cannot possibly disagree more that “it was wrong, obviously”. One of the roles I’ve had in my career was the leader of the first responder team at a manufacturing site in the middle of nowhere. We were going to be the medical staff for at least thirty minutes until an ambulance arrived. One of the most important rules we had was if there’s a procedure to follow - follow it. Didn’t matter how stupid it seemed, the absolutely WORST thing that can happen is people starting to do what they think is right but that violates procedure, because then it turns into chaos and makes the situation worse.

As an example, people are upset the NFL didn’t just immediately cancel the game. Let’s say they did - now you’d have thousands of people leaving the stadium and clogging up the roads - making it harder for the ambulance to get to the hospital. If someone at the stadium had decided to “do the right thing” and immediate announce the game was cancelled, he/she could have inadvertently negatively impacted survival odds. I’m almost certain the NFL had “cancelled” the game well before it was announced, in order to make sure the ambulance made it to the hospital ASAP.

They possibly stuck to telling players 5 minutes to warm up just to give the medical personnel space. One of the biggest challenges in a medical emergency is people with heightened emotions often want to help but do crazy stuff that is the complete opposite of help. I’d rather have Joe Burrow and Josh Allen pointlessly throwing a football than trying to help me.


And I’ve been in that situation mandating procedure be followed to the “T”, and having people think I was an inconsiderate, uncompassionate a**h***. Totally get that’s how many people feel about NFL officials right now - I can assure you that the ones in charge of crisis management at the NFL don’t care because they know they did the right things to maximize survival odds.

This is a great post. Thank you for your insights.

Follow up Q from your experience - it seemed that when they were working they intentionally didn't have the players clear the field - is that typical? I know they said that the players were running visual interference, but wouldnt the typical course of action have been to create as much space as possible for the responders to work?

 

[djcon57]

As an example, people are upset the NFL didn’t just immediately cancel the game. Let’s say they did - now you’d have thousands of people leaving the stadium and clogging up the roads - making it harder for the ambulance to get to the hospital. If someone at the stadium had decided to “do the right thing” and immediate announce the game was cancelled, he/she could have inadvertently negatively impacted survival odds. I’m almost certain the NFL had “cancelled” the game well before it was announced, in order to make sure the ambulance made it to the hospital ASAP.

They possibly stuck to telling players 5 minutes to warm up just to give the medical personnel space. One of the biggest challenges in a medical emergency is people with heightened emotions often want to help but do crazy stuff that is the complete opposite of help. I’d rather have Joe Burrow and Josh Allen pointlessly throwing a football than trying to help me.


And I’ve been in that situation mandating procedure be followed to the “T”, and having people think I was an inconsiderate, uncompassionate a**h***. Totally get that’s how many people feel about NFL officials right now - I can assure you that the ones in charge of crisis management at the NFL don’t care because they know they did the right things to maximize survival odds.

This is a nice post and good ideas behind it….except you have absolutely no idea if they followed the protocol or not. Unless you have access to their protocol, seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions in the opposite direction.

 

[Cusefan95]

This is a great post. Thank you for your insights.

Follow up Q from your experience - it seemed that when they were working they intentionally didn't have the players clear the field - is that typical? I know they said that the players were running visual interference, but wouldnt the typical course of action have been to create as much space as possible for the responders to work?

This is entirely speculation on my part, but thinking back to the ref at the ECU game I remember them using the AED and his bodily reaction which created a gasp and fear in the crowd. That was…not ideal. If you can find things for people to do which actually helps, that’s a best case situation. They may have wanted players to screen out the crowd initially, but reached a point where things were stabilized enough that creating more space (especially once the ambulance came on the field) was what the first responders wanted.

 

[Scooch]

Yike

I cannot possibly disagree more that “it was wrong, obviously”. One of the roles I’ve had in my career was the leader of the first responder team at a manufacturing site in the middle of nowhere. We were going to be the medical staff for at least thirty minutes until an ambulance arrived. One of the most important rules we had was if there’s a procedure to follow - follow it. Didn’t matter how stupid it seemed, the absolutely WORST thing that can happen is people starting to do what they think is right but that violates procedure, because then it turns into chaos and makes the situation worse.

As an example, people are upset the NFL didn’t just immediately cancel the game. Let’s say they did - now you’d have thousands of people leaving the stadium and clogging up the roads - making it harder for the ambulance to get to the hospital. If someone at the stadium had decided to “do the right thing” and immediate announce the game was cancelled, he/she could have inadvertently negatively impacted survival odds. I’m almost certain the NFL had “cancelled” the game well before it was announced, in order to make sure the ambulance made it to the hospital ASAP.

They possibly stuck to telling players 5 minutes to warm up just to give the medical personnel space. One of the biggest challenges in a medical emergency is people with heightened emotions often want to help but do crazy stuff that is the complete opposite of help. I’d rather have Joe Burrow and Josh Allen pointlessly throwing a football than trying to help me.


And I’ve been in that situation mandating procedure be followed to the “T”, and having people think I was an inconsiderate, uncompassionate a**h***. Totally get that’s how many people feel about NFL officials right now - I can assure you that the ones in charge of crisis management at the NFL don’t care because they know they did the right things to maximize survival odds.

Yikes. My point was simply that the game, ultimately, needed to be called off. Nothing more. I agree completely that it was best to wait until the ambulance had left the stadium before they did so officially.

 

[Cusefan95]

This is a nice post and good ideas behind it….except you have absolutely no idea if they followed the protocol or not. Unless you have access to their protocol, seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions in the opposite direction.

To some degree that’s true, although the NFL is known for being sticklers for policy. Assuming they did follow policy is a reasonable assumption as a result. As an example, not cancelling the game until the ambulance was on the way to the hospital would astonish me if it wasn’t part of their policies.

Now - Troy Vincent handled the situation horribly. He needed to say something like “I’m not sure if or where the communication to warm up for five minutes came from. The NFL has policies for almost any situation, but with this as an unprecedented event we are going to need to review what was done and when, review the policies that exist, and determine if any changes need to be made. Second guessing what happened until we can complete that investigation would be premature”. That at least wouldn’t have created the level of skepticism that exists today as a result of his mishandling that question.

 

[djcon57]

To some degree that’s true, although the NFL is known for being sticklers for policy. Assuming they did follow policy is a reasonable assumption as a result. As an example, not cancelling the game until the ambulance was on the way to the hospital would astonish me if it wasn’t part of their policies.

Now - Troy Vincent handled the situation horribly. He needed to say something like “I’m not sure if or where the communication to warm up for five minutes came from. The NFL has policies for almost any situation, but with this as an unprecedented event we are going to need to review what was done and when, review the policies that exist, and determine if any changes need to be made. Second guessing what happened until we can complete that investigation would be premature”. That at least wouldn’t have created the level of skepticism that exists today as a result of his mishandling that question.

Yeah re-reading my post, I didn't mean to sound so accusatory, so my apologies. I HOPE what you suggested was true and a lot of what you suggested does make sense.

 

[Cusefan95]

Yike

Yikes. My point was simply that the game, ultimately, needed to be called off. Nothing more. I agree completely that it was best to wait until the ambulance had left the stadium before they did so officially.

My post wasn’t intended as an attack, you’re one of the most reasonable posters here. I apologize if it came off that way, wasn’t my intent.

 

[Chip]

Does anyone else just kind of feel weird right now?

Despite last night's horrific event, I still really want the Bills to win the Super Bowl (no sense in pretending I don't). But every time I have a thought in my head like "hmm I wonder what will happen with that game since home-field advantage is at stake" I circle back to feeling like a POS because that shouldn't matter when a human life is hanging in the balance. Like I'm trying to force myself not to care about football, but it's hard because I still do.

It will continue to feel weird until we know he’s ok.

If he doesn’t pull thru, or doesn’t regain brain function it’s going to take a long time to not feel weird.

But hopefully all signs in the next couple days will be that of a full recovery and normal life (albeit not on a football field).

 

[Cusefan95]

It will continue to feel weird until we know he’s ok.

If he doesn’t pull thru, or doesn’t regain brain function it’s going to take a long time to not feel weird.

But hopefully all signs in the next couple days will be that of a full recovery and normal life (albeit not on a football field).

I think the longer this goes without a significant update, the less likely the update will be good. I have no idea if that’s a reasonable conclusion, but it’s based on life experience.

When my father had a heart attack at work (many years ago), they used an AED, ambulance came, etc. so we expected/hoped for a full recovery. At first the doctors sounded optimistic, but by the following morning I felt like the updates got more vague and their body language changed. I’m pretty sure they knew he was brain dead by that point. They continued to “try hard”, but I think they were more working on walking us towards accepting reality than in saving someone who was already effectively gone.

I’m hoping that’s not what’s going on here, but I would really love some positive update from the hospital personnel soon.