OT: Possible unionization

[FAL]

I guess we need a HS draft then. With the first pick in the HS Football draft the Syracuse Orange select Thomas Holley, Bronx, NY.

They don't need a union they need the schools to give them spending money.

Then they wouldn't be considered "amateur" athletes anymore. Oh...wait...but if they unionize, they wouldn't be amateurs either. Damned if you do, but damned if you don't. The stipend route is the lesser of the two evils, imho.

 

[OttoMets]

Not many recreational hobbies reel in 5 billion dollars a year...

This case isn't as cut and dry as people may think.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...cats-football-players-trying-join-labor-union

"They haven't been since 1953, when the Colorado Supreme Court upheld a determination by the state Industrial Commission that a football player at the University of Denver was an "employee" within the context of the Colorado workers' compensation statute.

As a result, the university was responsible to provide workers' compensation for his football injuries. The NCAA responded by coining the term "student-athlete" and mandating its use by universities. Use of that term, and other efforts to enforce the idea that athletes cannot also be employees, ramped up as the NCAA a few years later introduced athletic scholarships, a form of compensation for services provided."

"Graduate students who teach, for instance, are recognized as employees of universities under laws in many states. Academics such as Richard and Amy McCormick of Michigan State have argued that athletes are employees under the common law definition of the National Labor Relations Act."

If this goes to court, it will be extremely messy. And I think the NCAA would lose barring something huge to prevent it from getting to court.

The Colorado history is interesting; I should look at that case.

Of course I was oversimplifying for effect, but college athletics needs to move sharply away from anything that adds more commercial implications. Get back to giving real educations to those who want to be college students for four years and play a sport for a portion of it. Lose the charade, set up a truly disinterested governing body.

 

[upperdeck]

so then the NCAA takes way all scholorships, pays every athelet a 25K stipend and the kids foot the full bill to attend.. but that means the kids now pay taxes on the 50K gift they get now.. where does this end.. does Div II and div III join in?

 

[Crusty]

I guess we need a HS draft then. With the first pick in the HS Football draft the Syracuse Orange select Thomas Holley, Bronx, NY.

They don't need a union they need the schools to give them spending money.

The same apocalyptic things were said about MLB when the Flood case was decided and today it is at its financial zenith. When a market exists as strong as the one for college sports, the paradigm will adapt to changing dynamics. College sports will be just fine - the money will be going in different directions to be sure but it will survive and endure so long as the demand is strong. Just because you and I might not be able to foresee the new model today means little.

 

[OrangeAl]

So how does SU do anything but lose in a unionized environment?
Do we get to call the $50,000 cost of attendance salary?

 

[javadoc]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/northw...-forming-college-players-union-163217754.html

Looks like Northwestern may start a union for college football players. If this gets started and all college players become united imo it hurts the NCAA even more...

What a terrible idea.

Once college football players become professional employee athletes, there is no longer any reason for the football to be affiliated with a university. Might as well have minor league farm teams.

 

[Crusty]

What a terrible idea.

Once college football players become professional employee athletes, there is no longer any reason for the football to be affiliated with a university. Might as well have minor league farm teams.

Hasn't that really been the case for some time now?

 

[Scooch]

What a terrible idea. Once college football players become professional employee athletes, there is no longer any reason for the football to be affiliated with a university. Might as well have minor league farm teams.

One might argue that's exactly the way it should be. Viable minor leagues seem to coexist quite well with collegiate programs in baseball and hockey.

 

[OregonOrange]

Consider that child actors get paid to rehearse (practice), be on set (game), and be at risk (injuries) for TV/Film production and they get paid for it, while being expected to still attend school. Nobody questions that they should be compensated. Aren't student-athletes really in the "entertainment" business as well because they are primarily performing for their fellow students?

 

[CarolinaCuse]

Hasn't that really been the case for some time now?

And as soon as student-athletes at top tier universities are considered as employees, the whole system disintegrates and you'll see a distinctly different collegiate landscape.

 

[javadoc]

One might argue that's exactly the way it should be. Viable minor leagues seem to coexist quite well with collegiate programs in baseball and hockey.

One might argue that, and then I get off the bus. My own choice, anyway.

 

[Opus]

And playing in the championship game, the SEIU Wildcats v the Teamster Orange. Rah!!!!

OK I did not read the story (Yawn, when unions are involved I pass)

'Where the vale of Onondaga
Meets the Teamster sky'

 

[cmr27]

The players get free tuition, room and board at a time when many students are drowning in debt. Doesn't a quality education have some sort of compensatory value in all this?

 

[Crusty]

And as soon as student-athletes at top tier universities are considered as employees, the whole system disintegrates and you'll see a distinctly different collegiate landscape.

Can't be worse than the hypocritical charade we have now. The SEC runs a professional minor league now. Great universities are pressured into embarrassing degrading scholastic scandals. Disgraced coaches are hired with $20 million contracts. "Student athletes" is a bigger misrepresentation than sub-prime mortgage securitizations.

 

[Crusty]

And as soon as student-athletes at top tier universities are considered as employees, the whole system disintegrates and you'll see a distinctly different collegiate landscape.

Certainly hope so.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Sure makes deciding to build $500 million stadiums even more risky, if this scenario could be a realistic possibility doesn't it?

 

[Crusty]

The players get free tuition, room and board at a time when many students are drowning in debt. Doesn't a quality education have some sort of compensatory value in all this?

Yes, but medical insurance, players rights to their likeness and signatures, a reasonable stipend and other no so earth shaking items are as well. This has nothing to do with other students drowning in debt as the schools don't make billions of dollars on their services. Many schools offer staff families tuition without the restrictions placed on athletes. They are employees, why not the players?

 

[Crusty]

Sure makes deciding to build $500 million stadiums even more risky, if this scenario could be a realistic possibility doesn't it?

I am not so sure. If the players had a union I am not so sure that the biggest losers wouldn't be the SEC and the biggest winners the ACC and PAC 12.

If players have the rights to their signatures and likenesses they will do better in the more populous areas. The current paradigm favors those who cheat with under the table payments and benefits. The biggest cheaters will probably be the biggest losers.

 

[Libero2]

The players get free tuition, room and board at a time when many students are drowning in debt. Doesn't a quality education have some sort of compensatory value in all this?

no it apparently doesn't. What I would like to see is schools write the students a check for the same amount of tuition and room/board and all the other perks they get, then require the kids to pay the tuition and board and all of it. Kids who want the money, can get loans to pay the school (with the hope they go pro in a couple years and can pay them off), and those who don't want the debt can turn around and give the school the money right back.

Leave it up the kids what they want, and I bet it will push this stuff off for a while.

 

[FAL]

no it apparently doesn't. What I would like to see is schools write the students a check for the same amount of tuition and room/board and all the other perks they get, then require the kids to pay the tuition and board and all of it. Kids who want the money, can get loans to pay the school (with the hope they go pro in a couple years and can pay them off), and those who don't want the debt can turn around and give the school the money right back.

Leave it up the kids what they want, and I bet it will push this stuff off for a while.

Don't forget the taxman standing there with his greasy palm open and waiting for his share. And who is going to loan kids that kind of cash? Respectfully, your idea doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[Crusty]

no it apparently doesn't. What I would like to see is schools write the students a check for the same amount of tuition and room/board and all the other perks they get, then require the kids to pay the tuition and board and all of it. Kids who want the money, can get loans to pay the school (with the hope they go pro in a couple years and can pay them off), and those who don't want the debt can turn around and give the school the money right back.

Leave it up the kids what they want, and I bet it will push this stuff off for a while.

Obviously, that is absurd. The schools make billions off of these kids. The simple fact is that the trade has gotten way out of balance. The concept of play for education has been grotesquely distorted by the NCAA rules as the revenue from BB and FB skyrocketed. They won't even let these kids have the rights to their own likenesses. Just greedy bastards.

The trade is out of balance and needs to be renegotiated. Universities have become just like big business grabbing every penny they can and not giving a damn about these kids.

There out to be law that taxes any net profit the schools make on athletics so as to force them to spend it on athletic programs and the "student athletes" welfare or fork it over to Uncle Sam. The way it is currently run it is just a business like any other.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

I think I'll go with the Boneyard's interpretation of this unionization business:

1) This is a private school problem, not of any concern to public universities
2) This will accelerate the demise of the ACC which is nothing but a cl*******k of PRIVATE and public schools
3) This will in turn result in the B1G jettisoning Northwestern...
4) and will force the B1G to invite the Huskies...
5) resulting in Gazillions of dollars and a seat at the table with the Big Boys for UCONN

Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[upperdeck]

the schools dont make billions, the industry does. most schools are losing money on this stuff.. schools lost money for 50 years on this stuff until tv kicked in. i dont see 25K-100K of fans showing up for minor league hockey and baseball and those guys dont make any money, most have 2nd jobs to play.. if the kids want it that way then have at it, they wont have 100,000 of alumni rooting for them either.. they can go play for 20K and have 1500 people watch them.. the D leagie bball is ready for them but it doesnt have room for 5000 more kids who are on scholie now..

 

[Crusty]

First of all college accounting for athletics is garbage. They include as expenses the retail price of a scholarship, which is not the actual cost - certainly not the marginal cost. THe reported profits are significantly lower than actual profits.

Federal reports filed by 244 major college football programs show combined revenue of $3.6 billion for 2012 and profit of $1.1 billion. Men's basketball added another $1.1 billion in revenue and $300 million in profit.

These numbers are about to skyrocket with all the new contracts and cable channels etc.

They can certainly afford a couple of hundred million in increased benefits for players. The numbers are so heavily weighted

This is not a private vs public school issue. Labor law is federal law and it trumps state law. I like the kids' chances.

 

[Alsacs]

I didn't realize that the Universities make these football players accept their scholarship offers. How many Northwestern kids are actually pro football caliber. This is whole unionization is a joke. I am not anti-union, but these athletes get some benefit of the bargain with universities. If kids want to get paid then challenge the Clarett vs. NFL case, and hope you get judge Scheindlin again. Their is no way I will accept college football players or basketball players fall under the term employees in the Sherman Act. Good luck getting any of these unions recognized on any state universities. This crap is coming from a kid Cain Colter whose career in football is in limbo as he is fringe WR NFL prospect and he wants to have a career to fall back on as the leader of this union movement. I would tell the kids fine you want to get compensated form a minor league football league with the NFLPA and let the kids who want to get paid and aren't eligible for NFL Draft play there a la the NBA D League.