The board bashing of Coach

[Sbucketball]

It's not a "solution" because I don't know the exact money situation, etc.

I just would have put more priority on PG than Center. I think Red actually believed(s) that JJ can be sufficient at PG and I just don't agree.

The board was talking about it since last February

Possible Portal Point Guards

I was looking at the mid-major point guards with the most assists who have one year of eligibility remaining. I would think that most of these guys would jump at a decent NIL offer. Drew Thelwell - Morehead State RS Jr Jaquan Carlos - Hofstra Jr Alvaro Cardenas - San Jose State Jr Donovan Dent...

syracusefan.com

I just spent like a minute scrolling the PG thread and am reminded the staff wanted a 1-year PG like Leffew over someone like Malik Mack because that fit better with their plans for 2025 and going forward. What was the thought process there -- they thought they would get Acaden Lewis or Tillery or something and didn't want to scare them off?

I haven't watched Georgetown yet this year but last game the Mack had 16 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals and shot 4-8 from 3, in a blowout loss to nd.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That’s the best he could do. It sounds like we didn’t have the money to compete for the best portal guys, and Red doesn’t have enough of a track record yet as a head coach. We struck out on Malik Mack and Jeremy Roach, and we couldn’t even get Dakota Leffew from Mount St Marys to come here. Eric Reynolds decided not to portal. It’s also sometimes better to go with the bird in the hand. JJ and Bell are good offensive players and athletic guys, so the bet is that they can improve their defense now that they’re upperclassmen. (They both have only played man to man one year in college, btw.) What would have been your solution?

I would have rather used the money we gave Lampkin to a legit lead guard who could play defense. This was debated in the spring. A shot blocking center who can dunk would have been fine, but Red seems to be hellbent on running his offense through a big.

 

[Sherman20]

I just spent like a minute scrolling the PG thread and am reminded the staff wanted a 1-year PG like Leffew over someone like Malik Mack because that fit better with their plans for 2025 and going forward. What was the thought process there -- they thought they would get Acaden Lewis or Tillery or something and didn't want to scare them off?

I haven't watched Georgetown yet this year but last game the Mack had 16 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals and shot 4-8 from 3, in a blowout loss to nd.

I don’t know where you’re getting that. We tried for Mack and couldn’t get him, aka decided that we couldn’t afford him is my understanding. Leffew was a fallback option, and then we got outbid for him too.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don’t know where you’re getting that. We tried for Mack and couldn’t get him, aka decided that we couldn’t afford him is my understanding. Leffew was a fallback option, and then we got outbid for him too.

That’s after we made Lampkin our priority. If we don’t make him a priority and get Leffew or someone else with the Maestro and Davis playing with Freeman we may be better off. I’m just spitballing, but a lot of us weren’t sold on Lampkin to begin with because of the defensive issues with JJ in the backcourt.

 

[UpstateSM]

I would have rather used the money we gave Lampkin to a legit lead guard who could play defense. This was debated in the spring. A shot blocking center who can dunk would have been fine, but Red seems to be hellbent on running his offense through a big.

A guy like Boakye or however you spell it who went to Nova + a stretch big >>>> just Lampkin

 

[Sbucketball]

I don’t know where you’re getting that. We tried for Mack and couldn’t get him, aka decided that we couldn’t afford him is my understanding. Leffew was a fallback option, and then we got outbid for him too.

No you're right, I forgot Mack had a big price tag and we just spent big on Lampkin so that was the biggest issue. Georgetown offered him a big NIL payment and we couldn't compete especially after paying Lampkin. But after that people said the staff didn't want a multi-year PG anyway and instead wanted someone with only 1 year of eligibility so no sweat missing on him -- which I'm assuming was because they thought they had an elite HS PG on the line and didn't want to scare him off? Just trying to piece it together.

 

[Scooch]

I never would have guessed that. Insane.

Many people wouldn’t have guessed that, and it was why so many were slow to recognize how deeply the program has stagnated.

JB realized that as long as he made the occasional Sweet 16 that he could be deemed successful and keep the heat off. Hence his shift to declare that the tourney was the only thing that mattered.

#11 seed to an improbable F4. Plus-#8 seeds to two S16s. Needless to say, those 2 and 4 game runs masked how mediocre we were in the regular season.

I mean, SU hasn’t finished more than 2 games above .500 in conference in TEN years. In our last 20 years in the Big East prior to that we finished 3 games or more over .500 in conference SEVENTEEN times.

We haven’t been ranked, at all, during any week of the season, since December 9th, 2019… almost FIVE years ago. And we haven’t finished ranked since 2014.

It has been a longgggg time since SU was a relevant participant in the regular season.

 

[dasher]

I just spent like a minute scrolling the PG thread and am reminded the staff wanted a 1-year PG like Leffew over someone like Malik Mack because that fit better with their plans for 2025 and going forward. What was the thought process there -- they thought they would get Acaden Lewis or Tillery or something and didn't want to scare them off?

I haven't watched Georgetown yet this year but last game the Mack had 16 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals and shot 4-8 from 3, in a blowout loss to nd.

We were never, ever, going to get Mack. Ever.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I would have rather used the money we gave Lampkin to a legit lead guard who could play defense. This was debated in the spring. A shot blocking center who can dunk would have been fine, but Red seems to be hellbent on running his offense through a big.

I would imagine a "legit lead guard who can play defense" that actually checks all the boxes we needed would be a great deal more expensive than Lampkin was. The point guard people desire either does not exist (because they are in the league already) or is ungodly expensive. See us never being in the running for Mack, along with the ridiculous rumors of Kadary's price tag. I wish we at least tried to find a single higher quality guard than two with a lower ceiling from lesser conferences in Carlos and Taylor.

The portal will NEVER fully satisfy. It is low supply, ridiculously high demand, and the tie will often go to the school that is poised to instantly have success the very next year, not a couple years down the line. If you are a struggling team you have to pay more. It is very difficult for me to make a judgement on Reds choices unless we knew the 100% exact tradeoffs he made. I think it is highly likely that any guard we were capable of getting at a Lampkin-level price would have one or two Lampkin-level flaws.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I would imagine a "legit lead guard who can play defense" that actually checks all the boxes we needed would be a great deal more expensive than Lampkin was. The point guard people desire either does not exist (because they are in the league already) or is ungodly expensive. See us never being in the running for Mack, along with the ridiculous rumors of Kadary's price tag. I wish we at least tried to find a single higher quality guard than two with a lower ceiling from lesser conferences in Carlos and Taylor.

The portal will NEVER fully satisfy. It is low supply, ridiculously high demand, and the tie will often go to the school that is poised to instantly have success the very next year, not a couple years down the line. It is very difficult for me to make a judgement on Reds choices unless we knew the 100% exact tradeoffs he made. I think it is highly likely that any guard we were capable of getting at a Lampkin-level price would have one or two Lampkin-level flaws.

From what I understand we paid more for Lampkin than Georgia paid for Leffew. I agree there’s not a perfect science to this, but it’s not shocking to me how bad we are struggling defensively and at the point.

 

[Sbucketball]

I would imagine a "legit lead guard who can play defense" that actually checks all the boxes we needed would be a great deal more expensive than Lampkin was. The point guard people desire either does not exist (because they are in the league already) or is ungodly expensive. See us never being in the running for Mack, along with the ridiculous rumors of Kadary's price tag. I wish we at least tried to find a single higher quality guard than two with a lower ceiling from lesser conferences in Carlos and Taylor.

The portal will NEVER fully satisfy. It is low supply, ridiculously high demand, and the tie will often go to the school that is poised to instantly have success the very next year, not a couple years down the line. If you are a struggling team you have to pay more. It is very difficult for me to make a judgement on Reds choices unless we knew the 100% exact tradeoffs he made. I think it is highly likely that any guard we were capable of getting at a Lampkin-level price would have one or two Lampkin-level flaws.

I'm pretty sure Kadary and Lampkin's NIL are in the same ballpark. Now Kadary was always going to St Johns and looked around so the tampering wasn't so obvious, but still I think 800k could have gotten us a high end PG even if not Kadary. Someone recently said Leffew got like 600k. Also granted Lampkin's initial NIL price tag was a few hundred lower than what he ultimately got.

The highest paid transfer was a big who went to UW, which at the time was reported to be 2m. It's the wings who are less expensive. We'll need a C and PG next year, and if they're in the same price ballpark, we'll have to see how we spend that money. No idea if the staff thinks the Aussie is ready to be the man, which might change their portal strategy. IDK what the answer is, but we have to have PG play, and preferably one who can shoot 3s.

 

[two3zone]

That’s the best he could do. It sounds like we didn’t have the money to compete for the best portal guys, and Red doesn’t have enough of a track record yet as a head coach. We struck out on Malik Mack and Jeremy Roach, and we couldn’t even get Dakota Leffew from Mount St Marys to come here. Eric Reynolds decided not to portal. It’s also sometimes better to go with the bird in the hand. JJ and Bell are good offensive players and athletic guys, so the bet is that they can improve their defense now that they’re upperclassmen. (They both have only played man to man one year in college, btw.) What would have been your solution?

My solution? Go after guys you can get.

You mentioned all these strikeouts and every low mid major guard we played against outplayed our starter, the solution is do pretty much the opposite you did in the off season.

The question shouldn't be directed at me, I'll give you answer that you and nobody else wants to hear. Ask the head coach, he'll say he's trying, working hard and will get better. Decide what you want to believe.

Going into a season with Carlos, Bell, Starling and Lampkin and their known defensive flaws is negligent at best.

 

[two3zone]

It's not a "solution" because I don't know the exact money situation, etc.

I just would have put more priority on PG than Center. I think Red actually believed(s) that JJ can be sufficient at PG and I just don't agree.

The board was talking about it since last February

Possible Portal Point Guards

I was looking at the mid-major point guards with the most assists who have one year of eligibility remaining. I would think that most of these guys would jump at a decent NIL offer. Drew Thelwell - Morehead State RS Jr Jaquan Carlos - Hofstra Jr Alvaro Cardenas - San Jose State Jr Donovan Dent...

syracusefan.com

I see all these center getting paid, but I'd rather have a 4th or 5th year senior point guard 10 out of 10 times.

 

[Eric15]

Many people wouldn’t have guessed that, and it was why so many were slow to recognize how deeply the program has stagnated.

JB realized that as long as he made the occasional Sweet 16 that he could be deemed successful and keep the heat off. Hence his shift to declare that the tourney was the only thing that mattered.

#11 seed to an improbable F4. Plus-#8 seeds to two S16s. Needless to say, those 2 and 4 game runs masked how mediocre we were in the regular season.

I mean, SU hasn’t finished more than 2 games above .500 in conference in TEN years. In our last 20 years in the Big East prior to that we finished 3 games or more over .500 in conference SEVENTEEN times.

We haven’t been ranked, at all, during any week of the season, since December 9th, 2019… almost FIVE years ago. And we haven’t finished ranked since 2014.

It has been a longgggg time since SU was a relevant participant in the regular season.

I would never ever trade in a Final Four (2016). But I still think that the Sweet 16 run in 2018 ultimately set us back. It created the illusion that everything was fine and masked the rot within the program, and it probably added a couple years to the tail end of JB's career. If we simply don't make the tourney in 2018 (we went 19-12 and 8-10 in conference), perhaps JB gets nudged out a little sooner, we avoid the nepotism and lousy recruiting and get things back on track sooner. Obviously this is pure speculation.

 

[djcon57]

You mentioned all these strikeouts and every low mid major guard we played against outplayed our starter, the solution is do pretty much the opposite you did in the off season.

Well the answer so far as actually been strikeout in the offseason, then use your PR tools to tell the fanbase that "actually we love Carlos and he's going to be stud", and now we're starting to see the next step, "we don't have the money to compete"

As I stated in the Portal PG thread and was mocked for, it's a lot easier to start with the money excuse if it's a legit excuse than use it after the fact

 

[two3zone]

I would have rather used the money we gave Lampkin to a legit lead guard who could play defense. This was debated in the spring. A shot blocking center who can dunk would have been fine, but Red seems to be hellbent on running his offense through a big.

All those years he saw some useless center in the middle of the zone carve us up gave him an idea.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

 

[cardiac]

We were never, ever, going to get Mack. Ever.

Why?

 

[Dinkyspond]

As a kid, I played all kinds of sports: baseball, basketball, football, golf, and even shot a lot of pool. By my junior year in high school, I had pretty much quit playing team sports—too slow for baseball, didn’t enjoy getting hit in football, and, honestly, I wasn’t very good at basketball. However, I did become a decent golfer. In my mid-20s, up until my daughter was born in my late 30s, I carried a single-digit handicap, which put me ahead of most golfers. Even though I stopped playing team sports, I’ve always enjoyed watching them, especially Syracuse basketball and football.
Now in my early 70s, after decades of watching sports, I’ve come to realize that; I don't know anything about coaching and teams with a mix of good players and one or two great players tend to win a lot of games—even if the coach isn’t the best.
Coach Autry inherited the SU program without many good players and no great players. Winning 20 games last year with that roster was, in my opinion, a testament to pretty good coaching. Last year started much like this one, but the team improved over the season and became respectable by the end.

I doubt Carmelo would want his son playing for a lousy coach. he may know a little more about basketball than most of us on this board, If he didn’t believe Red could make his son a better player and build a championship-caliber team, his son wouldn’t have signed with SU. Next year’s recruiting class is top ten in the nation, so let’s stop bashing the coach.
Every great program has its ups and downs. UCLA, Kentucky, Indiana, and North Carolina have all had stretches of mediocrity, and now it’s Syracuse’s turn. Building a winning team takes time, and it’s not always a smooth process. Coach Autry sat next to one of the top five college coaches for years. He’s passionate about SU, he’s a good man, and will be successful.

Chill out and enjoy the journey.

Agree with just about everything except one thing. We have not had a down period, we have been down a decade starting with 14-15. We have been a lock for the tourney once since then, 2019 (8th seed). Every other year, it's been bubble or completely out. We should never be a bubble team or out. The thing that masked it is the miracle runs to the F4 in 16 and S16s in 18 and 21. Those runs whitewashed bubble seasons.

 

[Oakland]

It's hard to argue with this.

I think patience is a good thing for fans in general. However, if anything, the Cuse fan base was too patient over the past decade or so. We had an amazing coach, who most of us loved. We couldn't stand the thought of him getting criticized or forced out after so many years of success. So we waited and sacrificed watching a good product so he could have the experience of coaching his sons. Personally, I think it was fair. But it was painful.

The standard of Syracuse basketball has slipped because we as fans, administrators, and coaches let it slip. It's time to start reversing the trend!

P.S. Big kudos to us fans who packed the dome and traveled through thick and thin. Onward!

Maybe he should have gone to Cornell and coached his kids there.

 

[dasher]

Why?

Money for one and location for the other.

 

[Idiocuse22&]

One of my favorite things about College basketball is watching the improvements, changes, tweaks, Etc that the coaches and players make throughout the year.
As has been said, last year we looked horrendous to start the year with a bunch of uncoachable players. By years end I witnessed dramatic improvements all over the place.
We will see this year with a bunch of players that are coachable. I expect to see more improvement than last years team.
The start to this year is setting up to be one of the greatest seasons for me. We suck now but Ill be watching for those improvements that may take us for a ride come March...

 

[Red2003]

The last 3 replays are really painful to watch but the one thing I noticed over everything else was a group of guys that were playing way too nervous and tight. Playing scared to lose and not confident.

JJ needs to own the backcourt and Eddie needs to run the back court. The rest of the team takes their queue from them.

Bell and Donnie are the next best players that can be explosive but have been very off their game.

Carlos has probably played his worst 3 games in his college career and needs some time on the bench to regroup. The rest just play hard and earn minutes off the bench.

 

[orangecuse]

That’s sweet and all, but this is a sports forum. If we aren’t entitled to and supposed to discuss what we see, I’m not sure what the purpose is. Also not sure what or who defines what “bashing” is. I thought that word was reserved for fanboys of certain types of products… like ten+ years ago.

To very many people, we don’t have an acceptable product. Scrutiny of the architect of that product seems valid, when it is accompanied by reason, support, and facts. We may disagree on perspective and what facts or stats are valid or applicable, and that’s where discussion and argument come into play. And I thought that’s why we are here. It would be completely Uninteresting and Un informative and Unconstructive to me if everyone felt the same way about every aspect, and every comment was positive and optimistic, ignoring rationality.

The advice to chill out and enjoy the journey is kinda offensive, actually. Chill out, meaning just accept what’s being fed us? Enjoy a mediocre product? Our fans spend a lot of time and money on this product and have decades of emotional investment and attachment. If I bought a Thingamajig on Amazon for $14.99 and I wasn’t satisfied with it, I’d return it and possibly write a review. I’d suggest that SU basketball is exponentially more important to us than that, yet we’re supposed to just sit back and smile? In one sense, I admire your ability to do that. In another sense, No, I don’t want to be that person. Doesn’t make sense to me to be happy or content with ‘average.’

The bit about Carmelo knowing more about basketball… etc. and how his son choosing SU is an endorsement…. That’s just the logic of sentiment. I wouod suggest that if the options were SU, USC, and Auburn, there were a good number of factors that won the day for us, and Red’s (assumed) acumen vs that of the other coaches (who even are they?) is largely not yet understood. And sitting next to JB for so long, including during the ‘prolonged downturn’ is not quite the Pro bullet point that you’re portraying.

One thing to consider or remember: no matter what some of us wanted in terms of a search for a JB replacement, I’d bet we all really like Red, and want him to succeed. But, we’re allowed to be frustrated by what we are seeing and what we aren’t seeing.

Excellent post. If I could only like it multiple times, perhaps then, IMO, your post would clearly get the number it deserves, at least the equivalence of what the OP received.

And, in regards to your; "this is a sports forum. If we aren't entitled to and supposed to discuss what we see, I'm not sure what the purpose is" comment; unfortunately, often here it does gets met with the "bashing" type label, made personal, etc. vs. what it truly is, objective and constructive criticisms.

 

[cusefan88]

I would never ever trade in a Final Four (2016). But I still think that the Sweet 16 run in 2018 ultimately set us back. It created the illusion that everything was fine and masked the rot within the program, and it probably added a couple years to the tail end of JB's career. If we simply don't make the tourney in 2018 (we went 19-12 and 8-10 in conference), perhaps JB gets nudged out a little sooner, we avoid the nepotism and lousy recruiting and get things back on track sooner. Obviously this is pure speculation.

They would have promoted an assistant probably but Nate Oats was just down the thruway then.