The board bashing of Coach

[SYRtoBOS]

I think we probably need to play at least a good amount of Zone, even though two starters aren't exactly zone pieces. Honestly my biggest concern about defaulting to Zone is that Red had to prove to recruits last year he's running a m2m program, and spending this year in a Zone is going to completely unravel that. He'll get pegged as a Zone coach very quickly even if it's a break glass in case of emergency situation. And he can't afford for recruiting to fall off. I'm sure Donnie won't appreciate it either as he wanted to play in a m2m system to audition for the nba.

Will zone make much of a difference? I think you deal with the same issue of help defense, just instead of getting beat on the inside, you get beat on the outside.

 

[newmexicuse]

I am totally in Red's corner. love the departure from Zone, and huge upgrade in recruiting.

A few more NIL $$$ and we can get there fast.

Now, of course, it will take Red two or three seasons to learn managing the game and getting the talent he obtained on the floor.

No, I havent seen any games yet this season and I, too, am not happy with barely beating cupcakes, but it is SOOOOOO pre-mature to be throwing Red under the bus.

 

[Newhouser]

Will zone make much of a difference? I think you deal with the same issue of help defense, just instead of getting beat on the inside, you get beat on the outside.

Yeah I'm not sure the zone helps either but I guess it can't hurt. Problems would be the same - stopping the ball, not losing shooters, and we play under so many picks its almost like zone anyway.

 

[Brooky03]

Will zone make much of a difference? I think you deal with the same issue of help defense, just instead of getting beat on the inside, you get beat on the outside.

Realistically, it would be too late to implement a zone anyway.

A run-of-the-mill 2-3 zone will never work consistently. And the JB zone takes a long time to run well (part of the reason higher roster turnover hurt many of our teams defensively). The team would never learn it in time.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

For some people it's not enough to be mad during the games, they have to be mad between games too.

 

[Hopkins16]

We should never have gotten rid of the zone completely. So many teams use both M2M and zone and fare well utilizing both systems.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Back to the Original Poster,

I think the bashing does not stem from Red's overall record through a season and 3 games but rather the overall state of the program going back to 2015 or so. The natives are getting restless as they say.

I wanted a change in leadership for a while so I was excited about the transition, although going internal was not my first choice. However, I do want Autry to succeed, he's a great image for representing the program, he's making changes to the program, he's showing an ability to recruit at the high school level. Will that translate to wins on the court? Will that be enough to get him on solid ground for a long tenure? Jury is still out.

We all like the recruiting class but there have been plenty of great recruiting classes in College Bball over the years that don't pan out, see USC last year with I. Collier and Bronny. What did that get Andy Enfield? Alot of expectations and a one way ticket to SMU to jump ship before being on the hot seat or fired.

 

[Sbucketball]

Will zone make much of a difference? I think you deal with the same issue of help defense, just instead of getting beat on the inside, you get beat on the outside.

It's not ideal, but at the moment teams are getting easy shots in the paint at will, and also getting good looks at 3s. We have to stop at least one of those. I wouldn't go exclusively with either. But if guards and wings are slashing and killing us, we should take that away with zone, and if a team is hitting 3s, we should try to take that away with man. I'd like to see a variety of defenses when a team starts getting automatic buckets the same way each trip.

 

[JustPherU]

That sounds like a brand of jock strap.

I think that was what Tyson was wearing in the locker room before the fight the other night.

 

[MikeSU02]

Does everyone think this team that stinks at D all of a sudden play a totally different defense?

If we try zone, we will get smoked. SMOKED. We do not have the center to play zone. We do not have the guards to play zone. Just because we can't handle a screen now, doesn't mean we can handle a slide in zone.

Literally, basic switches are too hard for this team. Basic rotations aren't being done.

You think this crew can slide, can perform "M2M principles", can handle the decision-making in the middle to compete in zone?

I have been hard on Red, but I think there is a real reason he hasn't gone zone. I think it would basically look like a middle school team trying to learn zone.

You want to change the D? Go pack line. It takes communication, but it's less ground to cover and tries to take away basically just a crucial area and give up the threes.

We need to get better at what we are doing. Does that mean Bell sits? So be it. Does that mean more Choppa? So be it. More Lucas? So be it.

Get better at what we are doing now.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don't understand the bashing of JB and Wildhack

Like everyone on this board I am really disappointed in this season. But I really have a tough time understanding how this board has become nothing but a place to complain about JB and JW. Since JW has been there SU has turned a tired looking facility into one of the best college stadium's in...

syracusefan.com

You made this same post 3 years ago and were incorrect. With all due respect, you were wrong then and it's possible you are wrong now when you say "he will be successful". We all hope he will be, there is no guarantees at all.

And here's a great (if that is the word) post from that thread by pearl31

Since 2013-14, Syracuse has not been seeded better than 9th in the NCAA tournament.

That is crazy!! This is only year 2 of Red. We won 20 last year. We just might improve this year. But people need to read that line above again. 10 years since seeded above 9 (edit-8) is ridiculous!

 

[NineOneSeven]

It’s the ol “Peyton Manning threw a lot of INTs in his first season” excuse for every nfl rookie that sucks.

Like there arent 10 Jamarcus Russells for every Manning

I see people comparing Anthony Richardson's first x starts to Josh Allen's. Okay, cool. Maybe Richardson ends up being an all time great. But... maybe he doesn't because most do not.

 

[two3zone]

Whom he recruited as an assistant. He didn't just parachute in.

Who he doubled down with and built the team around two historically bad defensive players.

 

[two3zone]

Will zone make much of a difference? I think you deal with the same issue of help defense, just instead of getting beat on the inside, you get beat on the outside.

My concern too, but with the current results I'd play a 1-1-1-1-1 zone before I said no to any ideas.

 

[Niastri]

As far as patience, you'd agree that with NIL and Transfer Portal that teams can get better quicker though, right?

Like on an extreme level, a team like Indiana football couldn't do what it did this year. And in the opposite direction, a team like Fla State wouldnt go from undefeated to a 1 win team the next year.

I think everyone can agree to the fact that the landscape has changed. I'm not suggesting we don't give Red time, I've been clear I'd like to give him 3 years to make the tourney. I think that should be sufficient at a school of our prior standard.

I just think this idea that he couldn't get "his" team in place by Year 2 is rather bizarre. If you want to place the limitations on NIL budget, then that's fine. I hope he's able to figure it out by Year 3 or 4

You could argue that Red didn't get "his team" in place until late this off season, when he hired the assistant to replace McNamara and the GM and analytics team.

The players are all his. Last year, didn't want to upset the apple cart, but now, every player is his, including Bell who could have been ushered out like all of JBs other recruits if Red wanted.

Then NIL team is up for debate. Are there still thinks Red would like to do to support NIL that he hasn't yet been able to implement? There is so much going right, but still clearly work to do, on and off the court.

On the other hand, if we get high school recruiting classes like 2024 and 2025 every year, we will be beyond alright, even if we can't afford top of the line portal recruits. Birth of those classes beat every JB class going back to 2011.

If you included high school rankings of the Starling and Westry transfer class immediately after JB retired, you could say Red has recruited 3 consecutive recruiting classes better than anything JB recruited in more than a decade. I mention them because they clearly came after JB left, wanting to play for Red.

Get the top talent, figure out the coaching.

It's a strategy that can win, and will only get better as the coaching staff finds their feet.

 

[Niastri]

Only because we haven’t left the state. lol

Damn, winning two games in Brooklyn isn't going to count for anything.

 

[Sherman20]

And here's a great (if that is the word) post from that thread by pearl31

Since 2013-14, Syracuse has not been seeded better than 9th in the NCAA tournament.

That is crazy!! This is only year 2 of Red. We won 20 last year. We just might improve this year. But people need to read that line above again. 10 years since seeded above 9 is ridiculous!

Well, we were seeded 8th in 2019, so that’s not accurate…but the general point stands. My concern is not making the NCAA tournament the past three years running. That’s unacceptable.

 

[Sherman20]

Who he doubled down with and built the team around two historically bad defensive players.

That’s the best he could do. It sounds like we didn’t have the money to compete for the best portal guys, and Red doesn’t have enough of a track record yet as a head coach. We struck out on Malik Mack and Jeremy Roach, and we couldn’t even get Dakota Leffew from Mount St Marys to come here. Eric Reynolds decided not to portal. It’s also sometimes better to go with the bird in the hand. JJ and Bell are good offensive players and athletic guys, so the bet is that they can improve their defense now that they’re upperclassmen. (They both have only played man to man one year in college, btw.) What would have been your solution?

 

[gmoney44]

Red will be fine. He finally is going to be getting “his” players in hear next season and i for one cant wait.

How many players are leftover JB guys? One. Maybe two if you count Owens. It’s Reds guys now.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Well, we were seeded 8th in 2019, so that’s not accurate…but the general point stands. My concern is not making the NCAA tournament the past three years running. That’s unacceptable.

Yeah I remember that too but 8/9, doesn't really matter. And we got rocked by Baylor.

 

[djcon57]

That’s the best he could do. It sounds like we didn’t have the money to compete for the best portal guys, and Red doesn’t have enough of a track record yet as a head coach. We struck out on Malik Mack and Jeremy Roach, and we couldn’t even get Dakota Leffew from Mount St Marys to come here. Eric Reynolds decided not to portal. It’s also sometimes better to go with the bird in the hand. JJ and Bell are good offensive players and athletic guys, so the bet is that they can improve their defense now that they’re upperclassmen. (They both have only played man to man one year in college, btw.) What would have been your solution?

It's not a "solution" because I don't know the exact money situation, etc.

I just would have put more priority on PG than Center. I think Red actually believed(s) that JJ can be sufficient at PG and I just don't agree.

The board was talking about it since last February

Possible Portal Point Guards

I was looking at the mid-major point guards with the most assists who have one year of eligibility remaining. I would think that most of these guys would jump at a decent NIL offer. Drew Thelwell - Morehead State RS Jr Jaquan Carlos - Hofstra Jr Alvaro Cardenas - San Jose State Jr Donovan Dent...

syracusefan.com

 

[tptcuse]

Wow. A lot of words on here to say “we all just want the team to play better defense” and we want our team to make March Madness.

It gets tiring to hear over and over and it can feel like “bashing.” But it seems to me that defensive intensity is the one thing the coach/staff can control. If we couldn’t score, that would seem more like a recruiting issue.

 

[djcon57]

Wow. A lot of words on here to say “we all just want the team to play better defense” and we want our team to make March Madness.

It gets tiring to hear over and over and it can feel like “bashing.” But it seems to me that defensive intensity is the one thing the coach/staff can control. If we couldn’t score, that would seem more like a recruiting issue.

If we come out next game and do ANYTHING on defense, I feel like the temperature will go down a bit even if we lose (not everyone, I know some people have a h@rd-on for Red).

You just can't watch those 3 games against those dreadful opponents and have any optimism until we see different, imo.

 

[Sherman20]

It's not a "solution" because I don't know the exact money situation, etc.

I just would have put more priority on PG than Center. I think Red actually believed(s) that JJ can be sufficient at PG and I just don't agree.

The board was talking about it since last February

Possible Portal Point Guards

I was looking at the mid-major point guards with the most assists who have one year of eligibility remaining. I would think that most of these guys would jump at a decent NIL offer. Drew Thelwell - Morehead State RS Jr Jaquan Carlos - Hofstra Jr Alvaro Cardenas - San Jose State Jr Donovan Dent...

syracusefan.com

I guess he thought Eddie would solve both problems—he could be our center and our PG. Jk…. he is a very good passer, though, and they seem to be running the offense through him right now. I wonder if they were banking on Reynolds portaling and then that didn’t come through, and then they struck out on Leffew and Mack. I agree that good guards are how you win in college basketball, so they needed to land someone better than Taylor and Carlos, and they didn’t.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

And here's a great (if that is the word) post from that thread by pearl31

Since 2013-14, Syracuse has not been seeded better than 9th in the NCAA tournament.

That is crazy!! This is only year 2 of Red. We won 20 last year. We just might improve this year. But people need to read that line above again. 10 years since seeded above 9 (edit-8) is ridiculous!

I never would have guessed that. Insane.