other than Battle...

[Eric15]

But shooting and defending were the only things he was said to do well. So if you say one of those wasn't that good, that leaves him as a fairly underskilled player with decent, if inefficient, productivity. I mean, a starting guard who can't handle or distribute and shoots under 40% (far under 40%) from the floor for a career - if that doesn't epitomize a guard who falls under the "least talented offensive" umbrella, I don't know what does.

I don't think there's anything insulting about it. Not, at least, any more insulting than it is to the Howards and Pattersons out there.

You make fair points. I'm in no way one of those "JB can do no wrong" robots, but the fact that Kaleb and Ron were run out of town while Cooney was our starting shooting guard for 3 years playing huge minutes has to count for something.

 

[HoustonCuse]

It's all just too much. This fan base is in a serious crisis. I don't know how to respond. I guess I will repeat the old adage "Things are never as good as they first seem or as bad as they first seem."

Last year was an example of both of these. Started off thinking all great, then flopped to may go 0-18 in conference, then wound up with a first round bye in ACCT and whisker from an at large bid.

The attitude has become so toxic here that saying there are any potential positives about the program is pilloried. That, frankly, is ignorant.

Remember how our commitment from Brissett was ripped? He's no good. Not a top 100 player. Anyone who says he is a capable player is an idiot. Blah blah blah. He was named National Player of the Year in Canada last night.

On top of this, realize that all this hand wringing does nothing to help anyone. The concept that if we allow any positive viewpoints of the program to creep into the consciousness here is somehow enabling the downfall of the program is foolish. Some posters feel they must jump on any positive comment because it feeds the apathy and laziness of the staff. Like our comments have any effect on that either way. On the other hand, if you don't think recruits and parents come here to check into the program you are insane. So for all the blame people are heaping on the coaches, how attractive are they making the program look when the entire theme here is that the program is a decaying corpse which, if it does have any positives, they are fleeting and only occur by accident.

 

[Jasoncuse]

But shooting and defending were the only things he was said to do well. So if you say one of those wasn't that good, that leaves him as a fairly underskilled player with decent, if inefficient, productivity. I mean, a starting guard who can't handle or distribute and shoots under 40% (far under 40%) from the floor for a career - if that doesn't epitomize a guard who falls under the "least talented offensive" umbrella, I don't know what does.

I don't think there's anything insulting about it. Not, at least, any more insulting than it is to the Howards and Pattersons out there.

Pretty sure Cooney could handle the ball fine. He wasn't a PG, so not sure why him distributing it is a focus.

Cooney probably didn't meet many people's expectations, but to lump him in with some of the least talented guards in 20 years is wrong. Dude scored almost 1500 pts here. Comparing his game to Ron Patterson is ridiculous.

 

[Alsacs]

It's all just too much. This fan base is in a serious crisis. I don't know how to respond. I guess I will repeat the old adage "Things are never as good as they first seem or as bad as they first seem."

Last year was an example of both of these. Started off thinking all great, then flopped to may go 0-18 in conference, then wound up with a first round bye in ACCT and whisker from an at large bid.

The attitude has become so toxic here that saying there are any potential positives about the program is pilloried. That, frankly, is ignorant.

Remember how our commitment from Brissett was ripped? He's no good. Not a top 100 player. Anyone who says he is a capable player is an idiot. Blah blah blah. He was named National Player of the Year in Canada last night.

On top of this, realize that all this hand wringing does nothing to help anyone. The concept that if we allow any positive viewpoints of the program to creep into the consciousness here is somehow enabling the downfall of the program is foolish. Some posters feel they must jump on any positive comment because it feeds the apathy and laziness of the staff. Like our comments have any effect on that either way. On the other hand, if you don't think recruits and parents come here to check into the program you are insane. So for all the blame people are heaping on the coaches, how attractive are they making the program look when the entire theme here is that the program is a decaying corpse which, if it does have any positives, they are fleeting and only occur by accident.

This is Just wrong. People want to be positive and win. This place is for diehards.
We have a 72 year old coach who hasn't been working as hard as the other coaches.
Listen to Francis it has hurt us.
Your an elite prospect you see John Calipari, Sean Miller, Jay Wright, and Gerry McNamara at your games. You don't think that hurts us?

Hear what he said about Lonnie Walker. We neglected him. This isn't people strawman complaining. It's a fact.

Our problems aren't because of the sanctions listen to Francis.
That is an excuse to justify our laziness. Sanctions cost us Huerter and that is it.

People aren't complaining like the morons in 2012. Complain about those fans who wanted style points and winning wasn't enough. People now see the program struggling and we aren't celebrating stuff that should be standard business.

 

[Oráiste]

But shooting and defending were the only things he was said to do well. So if you say one of those wasn't that good, that leaves him as a fairly underskilled player with decent, if inefficient, productivity. I mean, a starting guard who can't handle or distribute and shoots under 40% (far under 40%) from the floor for a career - if that doesn't epitomize a guard who falls under the "least talented offensive" umbrella, I don't know what does.

I don't think there's anything insulting about it. Not, at least, any more insulting than it is to the Howards and Pattersons out there.

It's very insulting and doesn't conform with the facts.
Cooney had an offensive rating above 100 every season except his freshman campaign when he was at 95.6 Guys like Josh Wright, Louie McCroseky, Dashonte Riley never sniffed an ORating of 100. With the exception of Wright, who got up to 95.9 in his senior year, none of them even matched Cooney's freshman low.

 

[OttoMets]

Pretty sure Cooney could handle the ball fine. He wasn't a PG, so not sure why him distributing it is a focus.

Cooney probably didn't meet many people's expectations, but to lump him in with some of the least talented guards in 20 years is wrong. Dude scored almost 1500 pts here. Comparing his game to Ron Patterson is ridiculous.

I could be wrong, but my hunch is that any Syracuse recruit who plays 4,000 minutes in a career could produce what Cooney did. I don't want to gratuitously pile on, but his numbers are worse than any regular other than Jason Cipolla in 1996 (funny, since that was a good season). Guys like Mike Hopkins and Michael Edwards, Marius Janulis, pretty much every two guard of the Boeheim era had a significantly better statistical career than Cooney. There are guys who get dumped on, Brandon Triche, for instance, who had much better numbers and did everything better.

Anyway, don't mean to be too argumentative, but I think Cooney is misrepresented a little bit. And I don't agree with the characterization that he could handle the ball.

You make fair points. I'm in no way one of those "JB can do no wrong" robots, but the fact that Kaleb and Ron were run out of town while Cooney was our starting shooting guard for 3 years playing huge minutes has to count for something.

It might. Certainly a lot of factors were in play (among others, physical size).

 

[Alsacs]

Pretty sure Cooney could handle the ball fine. He wasn't a PG, so not sure why him distributing it is a focus.

Cooney probably didn't meet many people's expectations, but to lump him in with some of the least talented guards in 20 years is wrong. Dude scored almost 1500 pts here. Comparing his game to Ron Patterson is ridiculous.

JB not recruiting a 3rd decent guard while Cooney was here was why the kid gets scorn.
Cooney was a role player who JB gave elite status minutes wise and that is why Cooney gets killed or should get some frustration.

Cooney doesn't play 30 MPG at many P5 schools for 3 years.

Freaking Triche/Waiters/Jardine split mid 20s in MPG. There is no way those guys should have played a lot less than Cooney.

We needed another guard while Cooney was here and JB never did it.

 

[OttoMets]

It's very insulting and doesn't conform with the facts.
Cooney had an offensive rating above 100 every season except his freshman campaign when he was at 95.6 Guys like Josh Wright, Louie McCroseky, Dashonte Riley never sniffed an ORating of 100. With the exception of Wright, who got up to 95.9 in his senior year, none of them even matched Cooney's freshman low.

Link?

Riley was a reserve center; I wouldn't have mentioned him and he sure doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm all for consideration of facts. Since what we see on the court is subjective, that's why I'm relying on things like statistics. Those put Cooney in the same company I initially cited.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Pretty sure Cooney could handle the ball fine. He wasn't a PG, so not sure why him distributing it is a focus.

Cooney probably didn't meet many people's expectations, but to lump him in with some of the least talented guards in 20 years is wrong. Dude scored almost 1500 pts here. Comparing his game to Ron Patterson is ridiculous.

Cooney had 2 seasons where he made a higher percentage of 3's than all but 1 of Gerry's(last year and his Sophomore year).

 

[Alsacs]

Cooney had 2 seasons where he made a higher percentage of 3's than all but 1 of Gerry's(last year and his Sophomore year).

Does that help Cooney or show GMac might have shot too much. As GMac had Hakim Warrick for 3 of his 4 years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

JB not recruiting a 3rd decent guard while Cooney was here was why the kid gets scorn.
Cooney was a role player who JB gave elite status minutes wise and that is why Cooney gets killed or should get some frustration.

Cooney doesn't play 30 MPG at many P5 schools for 3 years.

Freaking Triche/Waiters/Jardine split mid 20s in MPG. There is no way those guys should have played a lot less than Cooney.

We needed another guard while Cooney was here and JB never did it.

Well we did recruit Kaleb who was a top 50 player. It's not like we didn't try to add guard depth. That's a totally different discussion.

 

[Alsacs]

Well we did recruit Kaleb who was a top 50 player. It's not like we didn't try to add guard depth. That's a totally different discussion.

Again we had 2 open scholarships in 2014. Why? That is horrible roster construction by JB.

Kaleb, Cooney and G are all we had in 2014.
JB never brought anybody in who could take minutes from Cooney.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Does that help Cooney or show GMac might have shot too much. As GMac had Hakim Warrick for 3 of his 4 years.

I don't know. I think it's interesting. I think they both suffered at times from less than stellar backcourt mates. I think people belove Gerry more than Cooney due to the "clutch" factor. Whatever he didn't do in the regular season last year or against Dayton, I thought Cooney more than made up for it with good tournament play last year.

The Scoop/Triche/Dion/MCW backcourt was the best backcourt we have ever had. I don't think you'll see that ever again because if we have 2 or 3 other really good players, chances are the MCW's of the world will go somewhere else.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

who will you be comfortable seeing hoisting up shots next year?

I love that shirt. Still have mine.

 

[Briancuse]

TT, we badly need a couple of recruits and grad transfers.

 

[Cuse'91]

TT, we badly need a couple of recruits and grad transfers.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying TT is the Riddler, but he has some serious question marks too. Only thing he has proven is a consistent outside jumper, but as sweet as that is, we will require a ton more from him next year...

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I hate the idea of seeing TT take long jumpers with his feet on or inside the 3-point line. And I know we are going to see tons of those next year. Without no one under the basket.

I look forward to seeing Frank Howard splash 3s next year, to the consternation of all of us who have heard the rumors and wonder how it is he's still associated with this university at all, let alone on this team. He will get his revenge! Honestly though, I think his shot improved significantly from the previous year, and if he continues down that path he can become a usable piece out there. Hopefully we never see all those missed layups we saw in the beginning of the year.

 

[Cuse'91]

I hate the idea of seeing TT take long jumpers with his feet on or inside the 3-point line. And I know we are going to see tons of those next year. Without no one under the basket.

But, that's his one proven skill.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

But, that's his one proven skill.

I know. The worst thing that happens with him is actually hitting one of those jumpers early in the game. Because he's definitely going to be jacking up long 2 pointers from that point on, regardless of time on the clock, flow of the game, spacing of his teammates, etc. He just seems like an extremely selfish offensive player to me, and those kinds of players are the worst. I like his drives a little more, but he seems to run into two players at least once per game, and still puts up the shot. I know he scores a lot, but when he misses, it usually leads to a runout for the other team because we just aren't floor balanced. Or at least it feels that way.

 

[Cuse'91]

I know. The worst thing that happens with him is actually hitting one of those jumpers early in the game. Because he's definitely going to be jacking up long 2 pointers from that point on, regardless of time on the clock, flow of the game, spacing of his teammates, etc. He just seems like an extremely selfish offensive player to me, and those kinds of players are the worst. I like his drives a little more, but he seems to run into two players at least once per game, and still puts up the shot. I know he scores a lot, but when he misses, it usually leads to a runout for the other team because we just aren't floor balanced. Or at least it feels that way.

Scary scenario: That may be all he his...

 

[cuseinseattle]

TT, G-Mac and Red Autry. Unfortunately only 1 of the 3 can do it during a game.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think Taurean is going to hit quite a few threes this season. And, brother, is SU ever going to need them.

 

[TinyManInside]

I think a lot of SU fans don't appreciate how effective Thompson was at putting the ball in the basket this year.

He shot 54.6% from the field. Tyus Battle scored only 73 more points than TT in 436 more minutes.

On a points per minute played basis, Thompson was actually our best scorer at 0.514 ppm (Andrew White second at 0.497 ppm). In contrast, Battle scored 0.368 points per minute.

Of course, TT was a nightmare defensively, and I'm not sure his points per minute numbers will stay as high when he gets Boeheim 'run-me-into-the-ground' starters minutes, but I would be shocked if Thompson doesn't average at least 15 ppg next year. I'd bet he leads the team in scoring. Unless he's an absolute disaster defensively (I mean, even worse than last year), he's gonna play 30+ mpg.

 

[tbonezone]

i believe theodore mookie jones has one year of eligibility left.

 

[two3zone]

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying TT is the Riddler, but he has some serious question marks too. Only thing he has proven is a consistent outside jumper, but as sweet as that is, we will require a ton more from him next year...

Not to mention, without White and Lydon on the roster he may be getting more attention on the offensive end. Ditto for Battle.