other than Battle...

[tbonezone]

and can TT outscore more than he surrenders underneath. what's the plus /minus ?

 

[realorange]

This is Just wrong. People want to be positive and win. This place is for diehards.
We have a 72 year old coach who hasn't been working as hard as the other coaches.
Listen to Francis it has hurt us.
Your an elite prospect you see John Calipari, Sean Miller, Jay Wright, and Gerry McNamara at your games. You don't think that hurts us?

Hear what he said about Lonnie Walker. We neglected him. This isn't people strawman complaining. It's a fact.

Our problems aren't because of the sanctions listen to Francis.
That is an excuse to justify our laziness. Sanctions cost us Huerter and that is it.

People aren't complaining like the morons in 2012. Complain about those fans who wanted style points and winning wasn't enough. People now see the program struggling and we aren't celebrating stuff that should be standard business.

Francis says some good things, but he isn't God.

If Francis said that the team wouldn't win any ACC games next year, some of you would agree with no thought of your own.

For you to say HoustonCuse is Just Wrong is JUST WRONG.

 

[Alsacs]

Francis says some good things, but he isn't God.

If Francis said that the team wouldn't win any ACC games next year, some of you would agree with no thought of your own.

For you to say HoustonCuse is Just Wrong is JUST WRONG.

HoustonCuse and I have a good relationship on here. We disagree plenty. So thanks for butting in and making something out of nothing.
We disagree and that is called discourse and debate.
I can say he is wrong it doesn't t mean he is wrong it means I think he is wrong and we agree to disagree.

 

[tbonezone]

if you read the boards pre season prediction thread you get an idea of how much the board "insiders" really know.

 

[20Plus]

I think Frank and Howard only count as one player. One of those should be plenty in my book.

Wouldn't it sound better if we said (Frank) and (Washington)

If we say first names (Frank)and (Howard)that sounded weird if we say last names (Howard)and (Washington) it sounds weird

 

[two3zone]

Francis says some good things, but he isn't God.

If Francis said that the team wouldn't win any ACC games next year, some of you would agree with no thought of your own.

For you to say HoustonCuse is Just Wrong is JUST WRONG.

I've never heard Francis say anything that was outlandish nor uninformed. I can't think of one time where he's pushed any fans in the wrong direction.

I form my own thoughts when it comes to this team and I think others form their own opinions as well, Francis doesn't form opinions but his pod is one hell of a tool for fans to use to use towards their opinions.

Houstons post had nothing to back it up and is generally the opposite of everything that somebody in the know said.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I've never heard Francis say anything that was outlandish nor uninformed. I can't think of one time where he's pushed any fans in the wrong direction.

I form my own thoughts when it comes to this team and I think others form their own opinions as well, Francis doesn't form opinions but his pod is one hell of a tool for fans to use to use towards their opinions.

Houstons post had nothing to back it up and is generally the opposite of everything that somebody in the know said.

First, this isn't a HoustonCuse vs Francis thing! I have the highest respect for the time, energy, and effort he puts into becoming super informed. He is one of the most treasured people in this community for his insight. By no means do I imagine I can even be mentioned in the same paragraph.

That said - I didn't post anything that requires backing up. I'm not posting facts and figures, I'm posting about the attitude and culture shift that has happened here. It can be traced back to Quade Green's decision, but even before that people were getting uneasy. Some of the uneasiness is related to what Francis reports (about his impressions of the effort on the part of the staff). Again, while I rank him at the very top of the heap of contributors here, I also don't think he is omnipresent to know the exact details of every coach/roster decision, the expenditure of resources and time, and every other minutia detail that goes into the decisions of how, when, where we recruit people. But over time his concern over that has sort of been absorbed by the masses and grown into a life of its own to the point now where I'm pretty sure our fanbase thinks we have the single worst staff in all of Division 1. It is post after post of piling on to how lazy, uninformed, out of touch, inept, undeserving, and, disorganized our staff is. I would bet that while Francis believes things some things could be done more effectively, he wouldn't sign on to the idea that this staff is so rotten to the core that they are the very worst in a P5 conference.

The bottom line is that I don't know that our staff is doing the right, wrong, or indifferent. I don't have that information. We have some limited information about where they go, who they talk to, and what they tell those people, but it is extremely limited and for at least 90% of us is 3rd person info at best. So I am not willing to burn down the staff of my favorite program on what amounts to very weak circumstantial evidence. For me or anyone else to draw iron clad conclusions about their effectiveness or awareness based on the available information is comically arrogant. I get annoyed when I see that. There is zero-point-zero slack cut for these guys even though there is a track record of success that scrolls out farther than we can see. That does not mean that I blindly think everything is golden, but neither should we blindly think everything is smeared turds. The latter is the preponderance of what I am seeing lately. Could we improve some things - undoubtedly. But we are going to miss on recruits. We are going to lose games. You could do everything 99% perfect and still lose. The competition is too fierce.

 

[JDubbin]

First, this isn't a HoustonCuse vs Francis thing! I have the highest respect for the time, energy, and effort he puts into becoming super informed. He is one of the most treasured people in this community for his insight. By no means do I imagine I can even be mentioned in the same paragraph.

That said - I didn't post anything that requires backing up. I'm not posting facts and figures, I'm posting about the attitude and culture shift that has happened here. It can be traced back to Quade Green's decision, but even before that people were getting uneasy. Some of the uneasiness is related to what Francis reports (about his impressions of the effort on the part of the staff). Again, while I rank him at the very top of the heap of contributors here, I also don't think he is omnipresent to know the exact details of every coach/roster decision, the expenditure of resources and time, and every other minutia detail that goes into the decisions of how, when, where we recruit people. But over time his concern over that has sort of been absorbed by the masses and grown into a life of its own to the point now where I'm pretty sure our fanbase thinks we have the single worst staff in all of Division 1. It is post after post of piling on to how lazy, uninformed, out of touch, inept, undeserving, and, disorganized our staff is. I would bet that while Francis believes things some things could be done more effectively, he wouldn't sign on to the idea that this staff is so rotten to the core that they are the very worst in a P5 conference.

The bottom line is that I don't know that our staff is doing the right, wrong, or indifferent. I don't have that information. We have some limited information about where they go, who they talk to, and what they tell those people, but it is extremely limited and for at least 90% of us is 3rd person info at best. So I am not willing to burn down the staff of my favorite program on what amounts to very weak circumstantial evidence. For me or anyone else to draw iron clad conclusions about their effectiveness or awareness based on the available information is comically arrogant. I get annoyed when I see that. There is zero-point-zero slack cut for these guys even though there is a track record of success that scrolls out farther than we can see. That does not mean that I blindly think everything is golden, but neither should we blindly think everything is smeared turds. The latter is the preponderance of what I am seeing lately. Could we improve some things - undoubtedly. But we are going to miss on recruits. We are going to lose games. You could do everything 99% perfect and still lose. The competition is too fierce.

I agree with you on this HoustonCuse, and I would also add that it just seems ridiculous to make definitive statements about how poor of a job the staff is doing with recruiting... before the recruiting is even done yet! If guys like Tucker, Ayala, etc. do not come through, and we don't get any worthwhile 5th years by the time next season starts, THEN I believe we can make definitive statements about how the year was in recruiting. To do so beforehand just doesn't make sense.

There are just certain narratives that seem to take on a life of their own. How many times on the recruiting board recently have you seen the phrase "eggs in one basket" thrown around like the Syracuse staff has done this over and over again and failed miserably? It happened with ONE recruit in Quade Green, and the board is reacting like it's a consistent pattern of behavior. It drives me crazy.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't remember any posters being down on Brissett committing. I think many of us were like, "Wow this guy is a serious gem and seriously underrated." I mean one can tell just by watching 10 seconds of any of his clips.

 

[two3zone]

I don't remember any posters being down on Brissett committing. I think many of us were like, "Wow this guy is a serious gem and seriously underrated." I mean one can tell just by watching 10 seconds of any of his clips.

We're down because the roster management and complete swing and a misses are at a all time high.

I like Brissett as well but we're losing a TON from a team that didn't make the tournament. I don't think people want to realize that or admit it.

 

[two3zone]

I agree with you on this HoustonCuse, and I would also add that it just seems ridiculous to make definitive statements about how poor of a job the staff is doing with recruiting... before the recruiting is even done yet! If guys like Tucker, Ayala, etc. do not come through, and we don't get any worthwhile 5th years by the time next season starts, THEN I believe we can make definitive statements about how the year was in recruiting. To do so beforehand just doesn't make sense.

There are just certain narratives that seem to take on a life of their own. How many times on the recruiting board recently have you seen the phrase "eggs in one basket" thrown around like the Syracuse staff has done this over and over again and failed miserably? It happened with ONE recruit in Quade Green, and the board is reacting like it's a consistent pattern of behavior. It drives me crazy.

This isn't all about all our eggs in one basket. That's big but it's not just that. The fact we need to go the 5th year route and depend on those players to learn a complex defensive system is insane.

People are ticked because we haven't learned from mistakes, we have no elite recruits coming in, and if this program is half of what we all believe it is then we shouldn't be running into these issues.

At this point it is blind faith if you think the staff is going to pull a top 20 recruiting class out of what's left, news flash, there isn't much left. The power players that are left aren't coming here and the guys names who are being thrown around aren't going to turn this team from a NIT team to a contender.

This has been a problem for a few years now, you'd think 3 bubble teams (probably 4) in a row would open eyes but it hasn't.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We're down because the roster management and complete swing and a misses are at a all time high.

I like Brissett as well but we're losing a TON from a team that didn't make the tournament. I don't think people want to realize that or admit it.

For sure. Goes without saying but people will believe whatever they want, I suppose.

 

[Ward]

I don't remember any posters being down on Brissett committing. I think many of us were like, "Wow this guy is a serious gem and seriously underrated." I mean one can tell just by watching 10 seconds of any of his clips.

Same with Sidibe. People were excited that he came from a good program and looked like a guy who had a lot of tools that can help him improve quite a bit during his time here.

The angst came when we went 0-east coast on perimeter players. That was compounded by decisions in approach by the staff, that are factual no guess work or assumptions, that puzzled many when they happened and then proved to come back to bite us.

 

[JDubbin]

This isn't all about all our eggs in one basket. That's big but it's not just that. The fact we need to go the 5th year route and depend on those players to learn a complex defensive system is insane.

People are ticked because we haven't learned from mistakes, we have no elite recruits coming in, and if this program is half of what we all believe it is then we shouldn't be running into these issues.

At this point it is blind faith if you think the staff is going to pull a top 20 recruiting class out of what's left, news flash, there isn't much left. The power players that are left aren't coming here and the guys names who are being thrown around aren't going to turn this team from a NIT team to a contender.

This has been a problem for a few years now, you'd think 3 bubble teams (probably 4) in a row would open eyes but it hasn't.

Will you be frustrated with Syracuse's recruiting if both Ayala and Tucker sign?

 

[two3zone]

Will you be frustrated with Syracuse's recruiting if both Ayala and Tucker sign?

Still think we'll be mediocre next year but not frustrated.

 

[two3zone]

Will you be frustrated with Syracuse's recruiting if both Ayala and Tucker sign?

Who says Ayala even reclassifies? As for Tucker, it's very far from a slam dunk.

 

[JoeySimz]

This isn't all about all our eggs in one basket. That's big but it's not just that. The fact we need to go the 5th year route and depend on those players to learn a complex defensive system is insane.

People are ticked because we haven't learned from mistakes, we have no elite recruits coming in, and if this program is half of what we all believe it is then we shouldn't be running into these issues.

At this point it is blind faith if you think the staff is going to pull a top 20 recruiting class out of what's left, news flash, there isn't much left. The power players that are left aren't coming here and the guys names who are being thrown around aren't going to turn this team from a NIT team to a contender.

This has been a problem for a few years now, you'd think 3 bubble teams (probably 4) in a row would open eyes but it hasn't.

Eyes are plenty open. I think we are all well aware of the team's recent struggles. Just because some fans don't react and interpret things the same way doesn't mean they are in a fantasy world. I'm getting tired of the constant bashing of those of us who choose not to criticize and blame every step of the way. As Houstoncuse described, it seems every promising thread lately is devolving into a b****fest about the staff. Some posters just hijack every thread with this negativity.

 

[TinyManInside]

Will you be frustrated with Syracuse's recruiting if both Ayala and Tucker sign?

No I won't be satisfied, considering how many elite players that we targeted and missed on. Coming off a F4 appearance I expected a lot more.

 

[JDubbin]

No I won't be satisfied, considering how many elite players that we targeted and missed on. Coming off a F4 appearance I expected a lot more.

I think this presents an interesting conundrum though because there are multiple posters who have said it's been dangerous how we've only been focusing in on one individual player at a time in recruiting, going "all in," instead of pursuing multiple player options. Yet, you're not satisfied because we've apparently targeted "many" elite players and missed out on the majority. Can both be true? I'm surprised you would not be satisfied with a recruiting class of Brissett, Sidibe, Washington, Ayala, Tucker & Moyer coming off his redshirt year.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think this presents an interesting conundrum though because there are multiple posters who have said it's been dangerous how we've only been focusing in on one individual player at a time in recruiting, going "all in," instead of pursuing multiple player options. Yet, you're not satisfied because we've apparently targeted "many" elite players and missed out on the majority. Can both be true? I'm surprised you would not be satisfied with a recruiting class of Brissett, Sidibe, Washington, Ayala, Tucker & Moyer coming off his redshirt year.

It's funny, if you could go back in time and post that this would be the 2017 class, people would chase you down with pitchforks and torches.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Eric Ayala is not a PG.

 

[TinyManInside]

I think this presents an interesting conundrum though because there are multiple posters who have said it's been dangerous how we've only been focusing in on one individual player at a time in recruiting, going "all in," instead of pursuing multiple player options. Yet, you're not satisfied because we've apparently targeted "many" elite players and missed out on the majority. Can both be true? I'm surprised you would not be satisfied with a recruiting class of Brissett, Sidibe, Washington, Ayala, Tucker & Moyer coming off his redshirt year.

We went 'all in' on ONE player at one position (Greene), so yes, both can be true. We were in the mix with a ton of top 25-50 talent at the other positions and so far have come away with no commitments from any of these players - and most of them have committed already. If we get Tucker then we'll get one of the target guys, but he wasn't high on our list of original targets compared to guys like Brandon Randolph and Lonnie Walker. We have a huge need at the PG position and the only commit we have is Howard Washington, who projects as a program guy - I've been told by an evaluator that I respect that he doesn't project as a contributor until his JR year.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Brisset: Hidden gem. OK. Awesome.

Sidibe: Probably not going to see him contribute that much as a freshman center

Washington: Good get, not an immediate contributor at the position we most desperately need help at.

Ayala: Plan B to Quade, not a natural for the position that we most desperately need help at.

Tucker: PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE

 

[jr4750]

We went 'all in' on ONE player at one position (Greene), so yes, both can be true. We were in the mix with a ton of top 25-50 talent at the other positions and so far have come away with no commitments from any of these players - and most of them have committed already. If we get Tucker then we'll get one of the target guys, but he wasn't high on our list of original targets compared to guys like Brandon Randolph and Lonnie Walker. We have a huge need at the PG position and the only commit we have is Howard Washington, who projects as a program guy - I've been told by an evaluator that I respect that he doesn't project as a contributor until his JR year.

Just cause he's your bother, doesn't mean you have to respect him

 

[Brooky03]

We're down because the roster management and complete swing and a misses are at a all time high.

I like Brissett as well but we're losing a TON from a team that didn't make the tournament. I don't think people want to realize that or admit it.

So we're losing a lot from a bad team. That's usually a good thing. If you return a lot from a bad team, that's a bad thing.

Addition by subtraction, brother. White could score, couldn't play D. Gillon had 3 or 4 good-ish games, hurt us in practically all others. Coleman had zero knees. Lydon was good on both ends of the court but far from irreplaceable. Robey checked out early in the season.

I don't see any one of those guys and think to myself, "oh darn, how are we going to replace all of that awesome production." Will we shoot as well as we did last season? No. Will we be as efficient on offense as last season? Highly unlikely. Will our defense be much much better than last season? Probably. Last season's defense was the worst in the history of Syracuse basketball, so we can only get better.