Penalties per game under Dino

[capeorange]

It’s not only a major problem it’s a chronic problem. And not the good kind of chronic.

Just like Dino’s decision making towards the end of halves. It’s never improved. At this point I just don’t think his programs are capable of playing clean games and I don’t think he’s capable of making good decisions consistently at the end of halves. We will be plagued by both while he is coach so get used to it.

When someone is paid a multi million dollar annual salary, they should be held accountable for everything that you mentioned. If he is unable or unwilling to fix it which appears to be the case, then he needs to go. There's a finite number of multimillion dollar jobs out there, I think we can find someone better versus getting used to mediocre.

 

[Entropic]

Bob, every sports fan of every team on Planet Earth thinks they’re on the wrong end of bad officiating.

But we actually are, everyone else is tainted by their perspective but my perspective is the right one.

 

[Cusefan69]

Honestly, go re-watch the play. Klubnik was five yards out of bounds and Wax decided to chest bump him and show boat. This had nothing to do with preventing the sideline and Wax was absolutely not in hot pursuit; it was an undisciplined play. Completely boneheaded, it made him look like Quay Walker for the Packers. A ton of talent, but just an idiot move for no reason. That's not what you want to see from a Captain on the team.

Yep if you read my follow up I acknowledged that.

 

[gmoney44]

Are there other incidents besides what happened yesterday?
I can’t remember him making other boneheaded plays.

Yes

 

[AlaskaSU]

Over the past three head coaches, we have only had one season in the top 50 in penalties and we fired that guy right away!
I have a feeling penalties have a lot more to do with talent level, venue and competition than coaching. ( For example, last year Alabama was 123 and Tennessee 124.)

There are so many variables that I am not sure there is a simple explanation. Certainly, some programs such as the service academies do a consistently good job but that probably has more to do with culture than coaching.

When players can't handle their assignments they hold, grab face masks and put hands to the face. A lot of PI as well.

Other penalties have more to do with venue (we should know that more than anyone).
USC, (excess celebration), happen to every team.

Shafer
2015 40 of 128
2014 97 of 128
2013 108 of 125
Marrone
2012 114 of 124
2011 102 of 120
2010 98 of 120
2009 56 of 120

Alabama players can't handle their assignments? The cause can be mismatches but in our case there is lack of discipline. We have consistent lack of discipline which implies deeper problems. Coach is not in control.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Fair enough, did not see the whole play from my seats, just the pursuit to the sidelines.
So people who want to blame Dino for the penalties, are you suggesting that neither he or the staff discuss these things with the players? Are you suggesting that they don't practice ball defense skills but rather interference skills? That they don't practice hard counts? That they don't focus on illegal motion? I mean at some point it's the players that have to execute things cleanly. Wax is a Captain, if the play happened as noted, then it's Wax who needs to own it.

The coach needs to make the player own it.

 

[qdawgg]

Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Dino's two years at Bowling Green. I feel like an investigative journalist right now.

Bowling Green:
2015: 126 (out of 128)
2014: 117 (out of 128)

Maybe this is what he means by “We don't want to be occasionally great; we want to be consistently good”. We missed it all along and thought he was talking about winning.

 

[buckets30]

Not necessarily defending Dino here, but teams that play at a higher pace will run more plays and therefore have more opportunities for penalties in a game.

Cuse has run at a much slower pace the past couple years, and I would guess their penalty numbers are still not great when adjusted for pace, but they are probably not quite as bad as the raw per game numbers.

 

[qdawgg]

I know what’s always consistent in important games. When we make a big play on offense or defense I’m not surprised when the yellow box for a flag pops up on my TV. It’s also not a surprise who the flag is against.

 

[Crusty]

Crusty, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you arguing that more talented players commit fewer penalties? But then why do you reference Alabama who is ridiculously talented but was extremely penalized last year?

Couple of points. First, it is hard to find hard and fast rules when it comes to penalties. There are so many variables that the data does suggest any single reason.

The coaching correlation is not readily apparent.

However, the service academy culture of discipline is a constant. All three academies are among the best every year.
I used to get upset with Marrone's teams' penalties but after looking at the data I realized it was not as simple as coaching emphasis.

Marrone used to say that he didn't get upset about certain penalties because he didn't want to kill an aggressive players style.

Anecdotally, it seems to me the less talented players seem to commit the types of penalties to which I referred. Just a feeling.

One thing seems certain - the best coached teams don't necessarily have lower levels of penalties.

 

[Eric15]

Anecdotally, it seems to me the less talented players seem to commit the types of penalties to which I referred. Just a feeling.

But then why did you use Alabama as an example? They're probably the most talented program in the country and they were almost dead last in penalties last year. I just didn't understand where you were coming from there.

 

[007]

Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Dino's two years at Bowling Green. I feel like an investigative journalist right now.

Bowling Green:
2015: 126 (out of 128)
2014: 117 (out of 128)

Well, that's consistently terrible when combined with his tenure here. DB's teams lack discipline, there is no escaping that fact. The data supports what we see every game. It is who we are. Questionable officiating does not account for a long standing correlation like this.

 

[anomander]

Hard to buy that since Marrone's record on penalties was not all that good. Besides, the 40 was three years after DM left. Most of his players had graduated.

Is it so hard to give Shafer credit for what he did well?

yes

 

[anomander]

When someone is paid a multi million dollar annual salary, they should be held accountable for everything that you mentioned. If he is unable or unwilling to fix it which appears to be the case, then he needs to go. There's a finite number of multimillion dollar jobs out there, I think we can find someone better versus getting used to mediocre.

What gets me is the answers he gives. I can see how you wouldn’t want to take the aggressiveness out of some players on certain penalties, but the false start, procedure, and unnecessary roughness stuff gets me.

 

[capeorange]

What gets me is the answers he gives. I can see how you wouldn’t want to take the aggressiveness out of some players on certain penalties, but the false start, procedure, and unnecessary roughness stuff gets me.

I honestly don't think he cares about these constant penalties.

 

[gmoney44]

I honestly don't think he cares about these constant penalties.

He either doesn’t care, as you suggested or he is incapable of fixing the issue.

 

[capeorange]

He either doesn’t care, as you suggested or he is incapable of fixing the issue.

And he's paid way too much for either of those outcomes.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I would like to think that 40 from Shafwr year one was after effects of Marrone’s discipline still being instilled in the kids. Ever then that it's been a complete show with the penalites

They got better each year though under Shafer while Marrone’s surprisingly got worse each year.

 

[qdawgg]

Not necessarily defending Dino here, but teams that play at a higher pace will run more plays and therefore have more opportunities for penalties in a game.

Cuse has run at a much slower pace the past couple years, and I would guess their penalty numbers are still not great when adjusted for pace, but they are probably not quite as bad as the raw per game numbers.

We’ve run “fast” like 1 season.

 

[Eric15]

Dino's two years at FCS Eastern Illinois.

2013: 120 (out of 122)
2012: 108 (out of 121)

That darn ACC Mafia always had it out for Eastern Illinois in the early 2010s.

NCAA Statistics

stats.ncaa.org

 

[NineOneSeven]

Dino's two years at FCS Eastern Illinois.

2013: 120 (out of 122)
2012: 108 (out of 121)

That darn ACC Mafia always had it out for Eastern Illinois in the early 2010s.

NCAA Statistics

stats.ncaa.org

KEEP GOING YOURE DOING GREAT

 

[Eric15]

KEEP GOING YOURE DOING GREAT

That's the end of the line. No more information.

To be clear, I still like and respect Dino. It's just this aspect of his coaching that is a problem that requires a solution. Could we hire a former referee as a consultant?

 

[orangepassion]

Sending Taj Harris to media day a few years ago to represent the team tells you everything you need to know

 

[cuse309]

Both players were already out of bounds and Wax's momentum was stopped, then he chest bumped him. Stupid play and easy to call.

Don't forget his 15 yarder for mushing a players face after the play, and he did the same crap n a bowl game last year.
Where does Dino stand on discipline? Well...he made Marlowe wax, and Taj Harris, of all people captains.
Captains...leaders ...an extension of the coach on the field. A ln example of how to play the game on the field, and live life off of it.
Discipline doesn't rank high on his priorities list apparently.

 

[cuse309]

Fair enough, did not see the whole play from my seats, just the pursuit to the sidelines.
So people who want to blame Dino for the penalties, are you suggesting that neither he or the staff discuss these things with the players? Are you suggesting that they don't practice ball defense skills but rather interference skills? That they don't practice hard counts? That they don't focus on illegal motion? I mean at some point it's the players that have to execute things cleanly. Wax is a Captain, if the play happened as noted, then it's Wax who needs to own it.

I don't know what the answer is, but if you look at Dinos teams, not just at SU, they always rank among the worst in penalties. Always. It's just what it is at this point, but it's clearly a Dino thing if it happens every year to his teams. After all...he is the one constant on those teams. Rosters change completely over every 4 -5 years. Players move on, new ones come in, and the penalties continue.