RB Jawhar Jordan in the transfer portal

[orangencpolice]

We’ll be okay

Did you watch any games other than Georgia Tech this year? Just sayin’...

 

[upperdeck]

Having a crappy offense results in less plays. I understand that.

However, if you look at the numbers for this year, he had 77% of the carries between the top 2 backs. His 138 to Lutz 41. And he was hurt in a 10 game season.

The carries need to be split up more than the above especially when you run more plays. Where are those carries gonna go? Better hope Lutz is ready (I think he is) and pray for no injuries or its gonna be a debacle.

Thats why losing any possible playmakers at skill positions hurts this team more than some like to admit.

We've gotten so used to blaming everything on the OL we often look past glaring issues at the skill positions.

you need to look at those numbers,, when you are trailing you not only get less carries up front you get less on the backend.. the #1 probably gets the same 15-20 but when you lose 15-20 a game those would normally skew towards the #2..

 

[SuFTW]

Having a crappy offense results in less plays. I understand that.

However, if you look at the numbers for this year, he had 77% of the carries between the top 2 backs. His 138 to Lutz 41. And he was hurt in a 10 game season.

The carries need to be split up more than the above especially when you run more plays. Where are those carries gonna go? Better hope Lutz is ready (I think he is) and pray for no injuries or its gonna be a debacle.

Thats why losing any possible playmakers at skill positions hurts this team more than some like to admit.

We've gotten so used to blaming everything on the OL we often look past glaring issues at the skill positions.

The injury to Jordan and the two holdouts skewed the numbers.

 

[corpjet]

are you by any chance friends with Doug Gotlieb ?

...let’s be honest the snake Doug Gottlieb has no friends

 

[IthacaMatt]

Wow. Howard and Adams now him. Yikes. What’s happening with these running backs as to why they wanna leave. They must not like Gilbert or something

Or how there are literally no holes in the line.

 

[TheCusian]

Having a crappy offense results in less plays. I understand that.

However, if you look at the numbers for this year, he had 77% of the carries between the top 2 backs. His 138 to Lutz 41. And he was hurt in a 10 game season.

The carries need to be split up more than the above especially when you run more plays. Where are those carries gonna go? Better hope Lutz is ready (I think he is) and pray for no injuries or its gonna be a debacle.

Thats why losing any possible playmakers at skill positions hurts this team more than some like to admit.

We've gotten so used to blaming everything on the OL we often look past glaring issues at the skill positions.

What are you using to distinguish between the two? How can you tell if it’s the skill positions or OL?

 

[Chip]

Or how there are literally no holes in the line.

With the exception of the NC State game, Tucker seemed to find them. Lutz too in the two games where he had more than a couple of carries.

We also kept Hough in the fold when bigger names tried to flip him.

It's not all bad.

 

[SuFTW]

With the exception of the NC State game, Tucker seemed to find them. Lutz too in the two games where he had more than a couple of carries.

We also kept Hough in the fold when bigger names tried to flip him.

It's not all bad.

Yeah, but H0T Takes are more fun.

 

[JRHEETER]

Yeah, but H0T Takes are more fun.

I love a good hot take

just saying

 

[IthacaMatt]

With the exception of the NC State game, Tucker seemed to find them. Lutz too in the two games where he had more than a couple of carries.

We also kept Hough in the fold when bigger names tried to flip him.

It's not all bad.

Hough looks like exactly the kind of back we need for this offense. We lost some good talent at RB this season, though. Such a shame.

 

[Keger03]

Jordan's performance this year said more about the offensive line. Jordan played what, 3 games? He's like 170 pounds and never saw a hole on his carries. It's easy to predict what will happen when the defense sees this. If he ever got through the logjam he would be a threat. That never happened and it wasn't his fault. To add insult to injury (pun unintended) the coaches never tried to get him in space, that I can recall, and that's when he is most dangerous. Others have said to move him around i.e. slot, etc. I agree with that. But minimally, how many screen passes did he get, misdirection plays, etc. Almost every play he carried was into the line with no hole. That's on the coaches. I wish him well and hope the coaches learn something from this.

Tucker also came in right after Jordan was hurt by this terrible O line and did some damage with a couple TDs in a game. Yes, the O lined needed work but it wasn't 100% their fault. Some of that is maybe Jordan was not going to break out at RB.

 

[upperdeck]

Jordan looked more a one hole RB than a RB who would find a hole or make people miss. But who knows in the few times he saw the ball.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Jordan looked more a one hole RB than a RB who would find a hole or make people miss. But who knows in the few times he saw the ball.

If you looked at his HS tape, he looked a lot like Mike Hart - small guy, but could make very sharp cuts between the tackles, and then BOOM, he gone.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

What are you using to distinguish between the two? How can you tell if it’s the skill positions or OL?

No one can quantify the exact % attribution to the dysfunctional offense that has been Syracuse football over the last two years. That is impossible. They act as a unit and have been abysmal as a unit with a few shining stars/moments.

It has become board fact with many that its the OL (1000's of posts on this) and the QB (1000's of posts on this) with little attention to the skill positions. Everyone believes that if the line was just better everything else would fall into place. While a solid OL is helpful (without a doubt) it can't fully make up for deficiencies in other positions. That has been and is my point.

My comparisons are my own observations, statistics, past rosters vs. current roster vs. other P5/Peer/ACC rosters. I see big holes at WR and RB. We can disagree but no one is right or wrong as some like to state. Its all opinion. It just is confusing to me that fans of this team and fans of college football look at our roster and feel we are all set at WR and RB. I don't see it especially if injury bug hits us again.

 

[TheCusian]

No one can quantify the exact % attribution to the dysfunctional offense that has been Syracuse football over the last two years. That is impossible. They act as a unit and have been abysmal as a unit with a few shining stars/moments.

It has become board fact with many that its the OL (1000's of posts on this) and the QB (1000's of posts on this) with little attention to the skill positions. Everyone believes that if the line was just better everything else would fall into place. While a solid OL is helpful (without a doubt) it can't fully make up for deficiencies in other positions. That has been and is my point.

My comparisons are my own observations, statistics, past rosters vs. current roster vs. other P5/Peer/ACC rosters. I see big holes at WR and RB. We can disagree but no one is right or wrong as some like to state. Its all opinion. It just is confusing to me that fans of this team and fans of college football look at our roster and feel we are all set at WR and RB. I don't see it especially if injury bug hits us again.

Lots of straw men in there.

I'll speak for myself. I think it's near impossible to know how much blame to suss out when the OL is involved, unless you're a coach. We're in agreement there. There is one data set that helps a bit, but I can't find good stats on it and that is "yards before contact" for RB. It's not perfect but it does tend to help give an idea if the OL is doing it's job or not.

I don't think I'm in the "we're set at the skill positions" camp. In fact I don't think there are many here who think that. I think what you're seeing is a combo of "how do we know when our OL has been hot garbage or hurt for most of 2 seasons" and "the skill positions are not perfect, but with a mediocre OL they could be serviceable"... It's not a stretch to see our WR corp that way. We've note had "superstars" at those spots under Dino and they've finished in the All-ACC teams higher than their talent would point to. We've not had a great RB (Strickland was a great blocker and Moe was underrated and hurt by a bad OL) so the data on what Tucker could be under Dino with a mediocre OL is hard to see.

But much like recruiting, the talent everywhere can always be better. I think many posters have a "get to .500 and a bowl win" expectations and are eying the skill positions through that lens. Are they good enough for that level of success, if we can get decent OL play?

 

[Cusefan69]

Good luck to the young man. I hope things work out for him.

 

[721Comstock]

Or how there are literally no holes in the line.

Oh, there are plenty of holes!
HUUUGE holes!!

Oh wait - we were talking about rushing, not pass protection.
My bad.

 

[sufandu]

No one can quantify the exact % attribution to the dysfunctional offense that has been Syracuse football over the last two years. That is impossible. They act as a unit and have been abysmal as a unit with a few shining stars/moments.

It has become board fact with many that its the OL (1000's of posts on this) and the QB (1000's of posts on this) with little attention to the skill positions. Everyone believes that if the line was just better everything else would fall into place. While a solid OL is helpful (without a doubt) it can't fully make up for deficiencies in other positions. That has been and is my point.

My comparisons are my own observations, statistics, past rosters vs. current roster vs. other P5/Peer/ACC rosters. I see big holes at WR and RB. We can disagree but no one is right or wrong as some like to state. Its all opinion. It just is confusing to me that fans of this team and fans of college football look at our roster and feel we are all set at WR and RB. I don't see it especially if injury bug hits us again.

I think every position group has been criticized on here. The oline and QB, probably the most, but WR took a bunch of heat this year too. I think the RBs got a pass this year because of the opt outs and all of the injuries on the oline.

 

[MikeSU02]

Looking forward to having a #1 of Tucker, who seems like a much better overall RB than we have had in a bit.

I loved Jordan's potential to be moved around and get in space, but not as a #2 RB. Just my opinion.

Between Lutz and Hough, I'm cautiously optimistic about the backup RB role. Not to start a separate thread, but if GS wins out the QB job, I think that will help offset the ground game demand of the RBs.

Don't like losing anyone though, we just don't have the depth of talent to lose someone and not be hurt by it.

Wish him well. Looking forward to Tucker being the man next year.

 

[upperdeck]

Looking forward to having a #1 of Tucker, who seems like a much better overall RB than we have had in a bit.

I loved Jordan's potential to be moved around and get in space, but not as a #2 RB. Just my opinion.

Between Lutz and Hough, I'm cautiously optimistic about the backup RB role. Not to start a separate thread, but if GS wins out the QB job, I think that will help offset the ground game demand of the RBs.

Don't like losing anyone though, we just don't have the depth of talent to lose someone and not be hurt by it.

Wish him well. Looking forward to Tucker being the man next year.

Lutz also looks like someone who can be the #rb but also get moved to the slot when we want to look like 1 set but really run another.. Jordan always looke like Phillips to me but wanted to be a RB, just on his running style and body type.
I think we are fine with the 3 RBs and who know who else back there since its been shown we probably need 4-5.

 

[Chip]

Hough looks like exactly the kind of back we need for this offense. We lost some good talent at RB this season, though. Such a shame.

I think we have enough talent there next year to compete, but we don't have enough depth. 3 young RBs and a scat back really isn't ideal. Odds of them all staying healthy are low.

Not to make an excuse, but I guess sorta making an excuse. It's really hard to sustain depth in the transfer portal era. You have to pound it as much as it pounds you, as creepy or fun as that sounds.

 

[sufandu]

We probably have enough talent at RB as long as we don't have injuries, but losing Jordan still hurts. He has the tools to be a playmaker in a number of ways. I was really looking forward to him as a kick and maybe punt returner, taking handoffs, and catching swing and screen passes. I was expecting 15ish touches a game through a variety of ways. He's someone the defense would have to account for and could have opened up things for others.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We probably have enough talent at RB as long as we don't have injuries, but losing Jordan still hurts. He has the tools to be a playmaker in a number of ways. I was really looking forward to him as a kick and maybe punt returner, taking handoffs, and catching swing and screen passes. I was expecting 15ish touches a game through a variety of ways. He's someone the defense would have to account for and could have opened up things for others.

My feeling is, until we're regularly getting dudes in the NFL drafted on both sides of the ball, every talented guy we have is pretty critical.

 

[kcsu]

If im him i leave as well. Kid has something that cant be taught. God given blazing speed. If he is used properly he might make the league. With our lack of OL, WR, QB, and offensive coaching skill why should he stay.

 

[javadoc]

If im him i leave as well. Kid has something that cant be taught. God given blazing speed. If he is used properly he might make the league. With our lack of OL, WR, QB, and offensive coaching skill why should he stay.

Boo.

Lack of OL next year? The inury & medical DQ issues have been beaten to death here. What am I missing, that you have discerned?

WR? Can anyone say what that unit will look like on starting day?

QB? Devito and Shrader and our current frosh - with a new competent QB coach - aren't enough?

Coaching skill? Frankly, and this is just me, I'm sick and tired of the arguments that "coaches didn't use this player properly." If that is what you really, truly, genuinely believe, then fer pete's sake please sit back quietly and wait for the staff to be fired. I'm not going to comment on Gilbert and the offensive performance until we've had a full year with offseason workouts, spring practice, etc.

I will complain that if we don't have a printed playbook, then there is no way for early offensive enrollees to learn the system before actual practice begins. Which I think is a definite, self-inflicted wound.