Red Season 1 Now a Bust

[Knicks411]

Have you watched this team? Nobody can keep their man in front of them.

And yet the defense is actually still basically ok. 46th in adjusted defensive efficiency. That's not good or anything, but it isn't that bad, and the offense is 134th. That's the real issue.

Again, not like 46th is something to be super proud of, but the last 4 years we ranked: 185th, 207th, 77th, and 116th.

 

[Jasoncuse]

IMO, Red wasted some built in excuses and did himself a disservice by not turning over the roster, especialy the forward position. We understand part of the why, but sticking with so much of the status quo, including the coaching staff, just wasn't the best move. He has to do that this offseason now, because time is already ticking on him. Using a similar 'offense' as JB and having to fall back into the zone is bad optics and we're seeing similar results to all these past years.

It's the portal era, a turnaround shouldn't take 3-4 years, especially at a place like Syracuse.

I didn't expect big things this year, but I expected to see progress and something different. That just hasn't happened and I'm worried it never will. We need DIFFERENT types of players, players that can shoot, players willing to play defense, rebounders, size/strength, actual point guards, etc. Otherwise, this is just recycling the JB-ACC era with slight modifications.

 

[Red2003]

IMO, Red wasted some built in excuses and did himself a disservice by not turning over the roster, especialy the forward position. We understand part of the why, but sticking with so much of the status quo, including the coaching staff, just wasn't the best move. He has to do that this offseason now, because time is already ticking on him. Using a similar 'offense' as JB and having to fall back into the zone is bad optics and we're seeing similar results to all these past years.

It's the portal era, a turnaround shouldn't take 3-4 years, especially at a place like Syracuse.

I didn't expect big things this year, but I expected to see progress and something different. That just hasn't happened and I'm worried it never will. We need DIFFERENT types of players, players that can shoot, players willing to play defense, rebounders, size/strength, actual point guards, etc. Otherwise, this is just recycling the JB-ACC era with slight modifications.

Let's see if he learns. No one predicted Benny would be straight up dismissed, Taylor would be such a bust, and every Center injured and useless by February, and that Brown would have to be the man on this team.

We'll know pretty quick this Spring. It's going to be a fun portal year,

 

[Cuse181]

Let's see if he learns. No one predicted Benny would be straight up dismissed, Taylor would be such a bust, and every Center injured and useless by February, and that Brown would have to be the man on this team.

We'll know pretty quick this Spring. It's going to be a fun portal year,

I think a lot of people could have told you that the centers would be useless prior to the season starting. In fact, I am relatively certain when McLeod was signed there was a fair contingent of fans who came out and said the 5 would, once again, be a missive issue for the team.

 

[NorSyr66]

I think some of you are very delusional what you think this program is success wise. I’m a big as fan and supporter as anyone, but I’m a realistic fan. This conference has been tough for the team… red knows what he needs to do trust me. He’s not oblivious. I expected and would have been happy with .500 season. I treat this season as a moderate success

I have to agree with you. When he dismissed Benny he knew he was removing any chance of rebounds this year beyond Brown and sometimes Q. He made the move he had to make. Then with all the stars properly lined up, he got a big win over #7 UNCheaters. Let's defend our home court and get a couple more wins on the road and/or at ACCT. I feel getting to 20 wins will be a success with this team at this point!

 

[OptimusOtto]

I have to agree with you. When he dismissed Benny he knew he was removing any chance of rebounds this year beyond Brown and sometimes Q. He made the move he had to make. Then with all the stars properly lined up, he got a big win over #7 UNCheaters. Let's defend our home court and get a couple more wins on the road and/or at ACCT. I feel getting to 20 wins will be a success with this team at this point!

I'm hoping that there's more attention paid to the whole roster and less projects taken on. Not to say we can't take any but we should not have multiple healthy bodies that are unplayable, especially at one position like we've dealt with at center the last handful of years.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It’s wrong to mention “fan expectations” and “bust” as of those things are correlated.

If you are a fan and don’t realize the roster deficiencies will take multiple years to correct then you probably deserve to be disappointed.

The player who gets the most love here (Brown) wouldn’t have been a top 1-7 player on our good teams in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. And the expectation is this team will perform like those did?

Multiple is 2 or 3, not 5. There are only so many guys you need on your team to be competitive.
In 2002, we had a good "supporting cast", but our 2 stars didn't get along, and wound up in the NIT. Shumpert graduated, DeShaun Williams transferred, and we added a couple star players as recruits = Championship team.

There are so many examples of just one elite player raising the level of an already good team into a near great one. Or two star players, and you can be very really competitive with the top teams.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

What a shi$$y post and a shi$$y thread to start.

Lol. Don’t be a spaz

 

[OrlandoCuse]

This thread has taken on a life of its own. Many posters taking direct shots at me for even starting this thread.

I’m happy I started this thread. We need to have high standards and expectations for this program. It’s slipped significantly over the past decade. Many fans’ expectations have slipped as well. It happened with football over the past 25 years. I have no desire to see the same thing happen to basketball. This program needs to rise back to annual Top 25 rankings and making the tournament 4 out of every 5 years. Not making the NCAA should be considered a “bust” season.

I struggle to understand why some posters don’t want to accept those standards. If you are attacking me for even raising the topic, deep down you know what I posted is true. Feel free to post a counter argument (which many have), but if all you come back with is a personal attack it means I’m right.

Raise your game folks, raise your game.

 

[CuseBlood44]

A real coach wouldn’t have allowed this second half collapse. The offense is night and day, and it’s now nonexistent. Reflections of the coach

 

[CardiacCuse]

A real coach wouldn’t have allowed this second half collapse. The offense is night and day, and it’s now nonexistent. Reflections of the coach

agreed

this second half collapse is all on the scheme

coulda told you at half time bell would go scoreless in the 2nd...pure idiocy

 

[61 Silver]

The NC State game is the worst SU coaching I have seen in a very, very long time!

 

[cuseinseattle]

Yet you posted..

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with my post. Season 1 (making the NCAAT) officially ended tonight. It’s okay to question the future. Red will be here next year. How long should he have to turn the program around? Right now it’s just looking like a continuation of JAB’a last few seasons of mediocrity.

4 years to make tourney

 

[Orangeman]

I had a GREAT time watching and rooting for this team tonight!

Ups & Downs, big win.

I get they're not perfect...nice job getting the ball to Q for the last play.

 

[grepal]

I'm hoping that there's more attention paid to the whole roster and less projects taken on. Not to say we can't take any but we should not have multiple healthy bodies that are unplayable, especially at one position like we've dealt with at center the last handful of years.

We need a center a real one 1 more forward and to keep our guards. If that happens we will be fine.

 

[BillSU]

Team is unwatchable on the road.

Not tonight!

 

[cuseinseattle]

Yet you posted..

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with my post. Season 1 (making the NCAAT) officially ended tonight. It’s okay to question the future. Red will be here next year. How long should he have to turn the program around? Right now it’s just looking like a continuation of JAB’a last few seasons of mediocrity.

There is a lot wrong with your post. It implies that making the tournament was this years expectation. It was not mine. We are 17-10 and could easily find our way to 20 wins which would be a victory year 1. He also has Moore and freeman with other players back and that could be a next year goal. He should get 4-5 years in my opinion. How is it a continuation of JAB. He is running a different defense and offense and nothing is the same not even the record. It makes no sense to me.

 

[syrBossHogg]

This thread has taken on a life of its own. Many posters taking direct shots at me for even starting this thread.

I’m happy I started this thread. We need to have high standards and expectations for this program. It’s slipped significantly over the past decade. Many fans’ expectations have slipped as well. It happened with football over the past 25 years. I have no desire to see the same thing happen to basketball. This program needs to rise back to annual Top 25 rankings and making the tournament 4 out of every 5 years. Not making the NCAA should be considered a “bust” season.

I struggle to understand why some posters don’t want to accept those standards. If you are attacking me for even raising the topic, deep down you know what I posted is true. Feel free to post a counter argument (which many have), but if all you come back with is a personal attack it means I’m right.

Raise your game folks, raise your game.

IMO firing Red after just two years would be a bad move. What decent caliber coach is going to consider coming here knowing the school will pull the trigger on them after a short time? Especially for a school that is close to 10+ years from it's former glory.

There's also a lot of context to consider when considering a change. If next season is a complete disaster, then yes you might move on from Red. If it's a missed tourney year but the team has injuries again + Red has a good recruiting class locked up, then I think moving on from isn't a wise move. There's always multiple variables to consider.

I think most people expect SU to be a top 25 team, they just know it might take a little time given the current state.

 

[OburgOrange]

 

[orange79]

Huh.



Fire Red!

 

[OrlandoCuse]

IMO firing Red after just two years would be a bad move. What decent caliber coach is going to consider coming here knowing the school will pull the trigger on them after a short time? Especially for a school that is close to 10+ years from it's former glory.

There's also a lot of context to consider when considering a change. If next season is a complete disaster, then yes you might move on from Red. If it's a missed tourney year but the team has injuries again + Red has a good recruiting class locked up, then I think moving on from isn't a wise move. There's always multiple variables to consider.

I think most people expect SU to be a top 25 team, they just know it might take a little time given the current state.

Completely fair

 

[phreddie]

That's just sad

 

[realorange]

The "fire Red" crowd was priming the pump late in the game to bulldoze him when we lost.

 

[Knicks411]

IMO firing Red after just two years would be a bad move. What decent caliber coach is going to consider coming here knowing the school will pull the trigger on them after a short time? Especially for a school that is close to 10+ years from it's former glory.

There's also a lot of context to consider when considering a change. If next season is a complete disaster, then yes you might move on from Red. If it's a missed tourney year but the team has injuries again + Red has a good recruiting class locked up, then I think moving on from isn't a wise move. There's always multiple variables to consider.

I think most people expect SU to be a top 25 team, they just know it might take a little time given the current state.

That's a good point (and I also agree with the context point you make below that) but one counter is I would say is that Red has no head coaching experience; you would think a prospective good coach who would be the next hire might think he would get a little longer leash than a guy who never was a head coach before and just might be over his head. (the prospective hire also might know he's a good coach and he would get things turned around quickly.

It is a good point though, but I also dont think you can keep a coach around you think cant handle the job for another year or two just because it might make the job look worse.

I'm speaking entirely hypothetically here I am not saying Red for sure is over his head or anything.

 

[Bulldog04]

With the hardest schedule in prob over a decade. But yeah he’s got no clue what he’s doing