Red Season 1 Now a Bust

[Dave]

You really don't have a clue how JB ran things, do you?

I believe the very high expectations YOU have for the program were CREATED by JB. No, check that, I KNOW that. I believe the man bucked conventional wisdom and defied odds and rational expectations for YEARS. Did you know that you can’t win at a high level with the zone? Everyone did. Until he won. I believe you, and others, should have some damned respect. Unless of course, in your profession, you are a Hall of Famer. In which case you should have some…….respect. The JB bashing reminds me of the Joe Girard bashing. A savage mob mentality. Red is our coach now. Anyone who just expected things to be peachy doesn’t have a clue. It is an adventure. I hope a good one.

 

[dasher]

I believe the very high expectations YOU have for the program were CREATED by JB. No, check that, I KNOW that. I believe the man bucked conventional wisdom and defied odds and rational expectations for YEARS. Did you know that you can’t win at a high level with the zone? Everyone did. Until he won. I believe you, and others, should have some damned respect. Unless of course, in your profession, you are a Hall of Famer. In which case you should have some…….respect. The JB bashing reminds me of the Joe Girard bashing. A savage mob mentality. Red is our coach now. Anyone who just expected things to be peachy doesn’t have a clue. It is an adventure. I hope a good one.

No one has defended JB more than me and, for wait for it...47 years. Back when it wasn't easy. Back when we flamed out in the NCAA tournament every year. Back when people couldn't understand why we lost with all NBA first rounders in our front court. But it is fair to say that JB stayed too long and left the program in somewhat of a mess. The last 8 years, we haven't been seeded higher than 8 in any NCAA tournament. That is awful. We haven't been ranked in season in many years. And now we are in the process of not making the dance 3 straight years. JB wanted to keep the job while not working at the job. When I was in school, when JB first started, he hit the road recruitng. Hard. He didn't do that the last few years. He left it all to his ass'ts and that is why G-mac was left to go head to head with Coach K and Coach Cal. Not fair to him. Or the other ass'ts. He helped arrange it so that his two sons would be playing with no real competition. I understand all of that. I have retired and at the end, I wasn't working as hard as I did when I first started. But I was only hurting myself. Red is here now. And he is working the way JB did when JB started. I think things will get better. Jb made Syracuse basketball what it was. And he also made it what it is now.

 

[GHLF]

No one has defended JB more than me and, for wait for it...47 years. Back when it wasn't easy. Back when we flamed out in the NCAA tournament every year. Back when people couldn't understand why we lost with all NBA first rounders in our front court. But it is fair to say that JB stayed too long and left the program in somewhat of a mess. The last 8 years, we haven't been seeded higher than 8 in any NCAA tournament. That is awful. We haven't been ranked in season in many years. And now we are in the process of not making the dance 3 straight years. JB wanted to keep the job while not working at the job. When I was in school, when JB first started, he hit the road recruitng. Hard. He didn't do that the last few years. He left it all to his ass'ts and that is why G-mac was left to go head to head with Coach K and Coach Cal. Not fair to him. Or the other ass'ts. He helped arrange it so that his two sons would be playing with no real competition. I understand all of that. I have retired and at the end, I wasn't working as hard as I did when I first started. But I was only hurting myself. Red is here now. And he is working the way JB did when JB started. I think things will get better. Jb made Syracuse basketball what it was. And he also made it what it is now.

I appreciate this post, I am so proud of what Red has done given what was left, attrition, sig roster imbalance, injuries, switch to M-M, tremendous shooting difficulties as well as deficits on the defensive end X... 1ST year head coach aware of how transition occurred. He emphatically has not coached in the shadow of CJB, he is owning this program and attempting to put his stamp on it. I am shocked we have done this well. We compete generally and when we do not he is all over them. He is also attemting to create a team first atmosphere, If not I suspect attrition will occur. I suspect he is going to be brutally honest in his evaluation. He knows the roots of this program, I expect we are going to be a nasty monster in time, I fully expect this. If he has average NIL backing we will be a regular in the top 25 within 3-5 years. I trust for very strong, hungry assistants

 

[IthacaMatt]

JB was gone and red was announced weeks before the portal opened

It's still only February right now, right? You own a calendar, don't you?
We were a freaking mess at this time last year, with a coach who was a public laughing stock.

By May, we got played by Jesse Edwards' dad, and most of the guys Red got through the Portal were broken. We were a shttshow. CTO got mad at me for saying that we had "become a selling club" who wouldn't be able to keep our best players anymore.

It was a mess in February, and it remained a mess in May.

 

[CuseBlood44]

5 years is what a coach should be given. Imagine if Uconn canned Hurley after year 3? He didn’t make tourney first two years at the helm. This season certainly not a bust. Lot of flaws but a bust would have been winning 10 games.

This is basketball. In the portal and NIL era. Not football

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is basketball. In the portal and NIL era. Not football

Two years, really, is all you need to turn it around in hoops. You need 8 or 9 guys, only a couple of whom have to be top talent, to be a good team. You need 50 guys in football, about 10 of whom have to be top talent.

 

[CuseBlood44]

I couldn't disagree more with this take. Red is out performing what JB did the last 2 years and to think he was going to do much better ..well, the problem is with the person thinking it rather than what we did on the floor. We do not have a good team. To have 16 wins with this bunch, is a plus. Not a negative,

Loser mentality

 

[CuseBlood44]

Expect Red to have similar growth from year 1 to year 2 that Coach Legette-Jack has had for the Orange women’s team.

A lot less parity and competition in women’s hoops than the men’s game, meaning easier to take that leap. Even though UConn and notre dame no longer dominate, the talent is still concentrated too 15 or so.

 

[hoopsupstate]

No one has defended JB more than me and, for wait for it...47 years. Back when it wasn't easy. Back when we flamed out in the NCAA tournament every year. Back when people couldn't understand why we lost with all NBA first rounders in our front court. But it is fair to say that JB stayed too long and left the program in somewhat of a mess. The last 8 years, we haven't been seeded higher than 8 in any NCAA tournament. That is awful. We haven't been ranked in season in many years. And now we are in the process of not making the dance 3 straight years. JB wanted to keep the job while not working at the job. When I was in school, when JB first started, he hit the road recruitng. Hard. He didn't do that the last few years. He left it all to his ass'ts and that is why G-mac was left to go head to head with Coach K and Coach Cal. Not fair to him. Or the other ass'ts. He helped arrange it so that his two sons would be playing with no real competition. I understand all of that. I have retired and at the end, I wasn't working as hard as I did when I first started. But I was only hurting myself. Red is here now. And he is working the way JB did when JB started. I think things will get better. Jb made Syracuse basketball what it was. And he also made it what it is now.

Say what you want, but our decline in recruiting and winning is a direct result of moving to the ACC. We’ve done nothing substantial since joining the ACC. In ten years we haven’t sniffed the semifinals of the ACC tournament. Our recruiting has dropped off and we feel like the ugly stepchild in this conference. Our conference record is about five hundred which is the definition of mediocrity. I know we had to make the move, but it has killed this basketball program. We don’t have any stars anymore. JB getting older hurt, but the level of talent coming to SU is not good.

 

[Dave]

Say what you want, but our decline in recruiting and winning is a direct result of moving to the ACC. We’ve done nothing substantial since joining the ACC. In ten years we haven’t sniffed the semifinals of the ACC tournament. Our recruiting has dropped off and we feel like the ugly stepchild in this conference. Our conference record is about five hundred which is the definition of mediocrity. I know we had to make the move, but it has killed this basketball program. We don’t have any stars anymore. JB getting older hurt, but the level of talent coming to SU is not good.

In a world of many independent variables, this. Well played.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Say what you want, but our decline in recruiting and winning is a direct result of moving to the ACC. We’ve done nothing substantial since joining the ACC. In ten years we haven’t sniffed the semifinals of the ACC tournament. Our recruiting has dropped off and we feel like the ugly stepchild in this conference. Our conference record is about five hundred which is the definition of mediocrity. I know we had to make the move, but it has killed this basketball program. We don’t have any stars anymore. JB getting older hurt, but the level of talent coming to SU is not good.

This isn't it. JB just got old. How do you make sense of Starling suddenly wanting to come here after JB left or us suddenly getting involved with Freeman after he retired?

 

[Cuse181]

It's still only February right now, right? You own a calendar, don't you?
We were a freaking mess at this time last year, with a coach who was a public laughing stock.

By May, we got played by Jesse Edwards' dad, and most of the guys Red got through the Portal were broken. We were a shttshow. CTO got mad at me for saying that we had "become a selling club" who wouldn't be able to keep our best players anymore.

It was a mess in February, and it remained a mess in May.

He was named coach on March 8th...

 

[Bayside44]

Say what you want, but our decline in recruiting and winning is a direct result of moving to the ACC. We’ve done nothing substantial since joining the ACC. In ten years we haven’t sniffed the semifinals of the ACC tournament. Our recruiting has dropped off and we feel like the ugly stepchild in this conference. Our conference record is about five hundred which is the definition of mediocrity. I know we had to make the move, but it has killed this basketball program. We don’t have any stars anymore. JB getting older hurt, but the level of talent coming to SU is not good.

So are you saying that a lot of the high end guys JB passed on for reasons, he would not have so they could play Providence?

 

[syrBossHogg]

Say what you want, but our decline in recruiting and winning is a direct result of moving to the ACC. We’ve done nothing substantial since joining the ACC. In ten years we haven’t sniffed the semifinals of the ACC tournament. Our recruiting has dropped off and we feel like the ugly stepchild in this conference. Our conference record is about five hundred which is the definition of mediocrity. I know we had to make the move, but it has killed this basketball program. We don’t have any stars anymore. JB getting older hurt, but the level of talent coming to SU is not good.

We announced our ACC move in 2011 and we had a top 10 recruiting class in 2015 and and a top 20 recruiting class in 2016.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He was named coach on March 8th...

Yes, because JB was busy getting himself fired at precisely this time a year ago, arguing with the media in his press conferences and mostly acting like an ass to people.

 

[Sbucketball]

This isn't it. JB just got old. How do you make sense of Starling suddenly wanting to come here after JB left or us suddenly getting involved with Freeman after he retired?

Are we sure Starling wouldn't have come if JB was still here? He went to prep school in Indiana, he loved Brey, and he didn't want to come back home yet so he chose ND. But are we sure his camp wasn't talking to Cuse before the season ended but after Brey was fired, at which time it still appeared JB would coach?

Freeman, yes agreed he was out and Red/Straughn brought him in. Also agree talent fell off a cliff and JB stopped recruiting at a high level, just making note on Starling because people keep saying he was avoiding JB and I'm not positive that's fair.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Yet you posted..

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with my post. Season 1 (making the NCAAT) officially ended tonight. It’s okay to question the future. Red will be here next year. How long should he have to turn the program around? Right now it’s just looking like a continuation of JAB’a last few seasons of mediocrity.

It’s wrong to mention “fan expectations” and “bust” as of those things are correlated.

If you are a fan and don’t realize the roster deficiencies will take multiple years to correct then you probably deserve to be disappointed.

The player who gets the most love here (Brown) wouldn’t have been a top 1-7 player on our good teams in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. And the expectation is this team will perform like those did?

 

[two3zone]

It's still only February right now, right? You own a calendar, don't you?
We were a freaking mess at this time last year, with a coach who was a public laughing stock.

By May, we got played by Jesse Edwards' dad, and most of the guys Red got through the Portal were broken. We were a shttshow. CTO got mad at me for saying that we had "become a selling club" who wouldn't be able to keep our best players anymore.

It was a mess in February, and it remained a mess in May.

May? Jesse was in the portal 4 days after JB was let go.

 

[Sherman20]

Barring a miracle in the next 3 weeks, Red’s season 1 is looking like a bust, or at least underperformed against fans’ expectations.

Looking ahead to next year I believe he must make the NCAA Tournament. The program can’t continue to produce mediocre results year after year. We’re slipping as a national program. Falling with the likes of Indiana and Georgetown into the oblivion of has-beens.

Question is, do you give Red a third year if he fails to make the NCAAT next year?

Even if he gets a third year, if he doesn’t make the tournament by his third year there’s no chance he gets a 4th.

What a shi$$y post and a shi$$y thread to start.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Are we sure Starling wouldn't have come if JB was still here?

Yes. Same with Chance.

 

[tbonezone]

We'd be sitting at 19 wins today, 4th in the ACC maybe even a potentially a double bye, a cupcake rest of the schedule (except Clemson), a path to 23 wins and that's not even counting the ACCT.

we also had some major comebacks and last second shots from unlikely sources that easily could have been 3 more losses. wouldda/couldda cuts both ways.

 

[Sbucketball]

we also had some major comebacks and last second shots from unlikely sources that easily could have been 3 more losses. wouldda/couldda cuts both ways.

We were a hair away from losing to Colgate for the 3rd consecutive year. I'm thrilled for Red he escaped that game with a W, because that would have significantly escalated the pressure on him.

 

[Red2003]

Did anyone see that Autry kept the team down in North Carolina the last 3 days to figure their stuff out? I've never heard of this happening unless we're playing a game the next day.

At least Red is trying something new to get these young guys to play better on the road and get back on the same page. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but he's doing something about it right now.

Most of the people on this thread are still complaining about how it was a mistake to join the ACC 10 YEARS AGO or what Boeheim did 4 years ago or what happened with Jesse or JG3 a year ago.

Those times are long gone. It's 2024 and Autry has 5 games left and an ACCT to play, let's see what he can do.

 

[pwong]

So are you saying that a lot of the high end guys JB passed on for reasons, he would not have so they could play Providence?

I will say Providence has been better than us over the past 6 years or so.

 

[Cuse181]

Yes, because JB was busy getting himself fired at precisely this time a year ago, arguing with the media in his press conferences and mostly acting like an ass to people.

I get that, but that would've made zero difference for what happened in the off season because he was still named head coach prior to the opening of the portal