REMEMBER THE NEW STADIUM?

[NineOneSeven]

You want more students to show up? Moving it off campus won't help. Winning certainly will.

 

[cuseinchina]

Back in 2007 there were a group of ten business men who met with the folks at Syracuse.

I was at the meetings.

They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on. They had built other stadiums using a similar model.

Here was what was proposed.

A retractable roof stadium with a hotel built in.

An artificial turfed outdoor football field where fans could play.

They proposed to build retail into south campus for the students.

For parking and access they would have to take out part of Drumlins Golf Course and they'd petition NYSDOT for access from 481.

They also proposed a Hall of Fame restaurant much like the one in in Louisville.

There was even talk of installing an El system from South to Main Campus.

All the University had to do was provide the land.

As a part of the business deal parking and concessions would be shared.

There would be a Walk of Fame where there would be busts, plaques and statues of Syracuse greats.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall.

At the end of that period the stock market crashed.

This effort really had traction but like they say, timing is everything.

I don't know if this model can be put together again but I thought it was pretty solid at the time.

Tell me NC didn't mess this up. This is depressing.

 

[Millhouse]

We paid for Building part of Yankee Stadium, and keeping the Bills in Mew York State we will pay. We've paid for Mario's folly of Turning Stone, and his sons giving them exclusive rights. Its time Upstate gets some money back from the state, rather then it going elsewhere.

get some money back for something else then. something useful

 

[Millhouse]

Today. But what about 10 years from now? I get the no public funding - but there has to be some sort of plan to replace eventually...

what orange yes posted about was the opposite of a long term plan

 

[SU2NASA]

Come on. That $200 million was a carrot that Cuomo was holding out to entice CNY. It was never real, available money. You don't throw together a stadium project in a couple of weeks. Shame on NYS if that were the case. The mayor was the one showing the most fiscal responsibility in this whole charade. Too bad she's getting crushed in the wheels of the Democractic party's juggernaut.

Stephanie, is that you?

 

[anglerman]

If some one was going to build a new stadium then you let them do it. If you can make it better you do it. You don't refuse progress because you like the dome. Millhouse I bet you were a guy that didn't want basketball out of Manley back in the day. It sounds like you don't like change.

Damn why would SU want the best stadium in the country? That would just be foolish according to you. Of course you let them do it. If it's going to be bigger and better you create a barrier to advancement

 

[Millhouse]

If some one was going to build a new stadium then you let them do it. If you can make it better you do it. You don't refuse progress because you like the dome. Millhouse I bet you were a guy that didn't want basketball out of Manley back in the day. It sounds like you don't like change. Damn why would SU want the best stadium in the country? That would just be foolish according to you. Of course you let them do it. If it's going to be bigger and better you create a barrier to advancement

It would be foolish to just take someone's word for it without studying. I really doubt you are this desperate, gullible, and trusting taking risks in your own life

 

[xc84]

“The facility is functional. It’s a good facility,’’ Raij said. “Long term, the Carrier Dome is going to have to be maintained very often and very carefully. As great as the facility is, and everything it has brought the community, it is an aged facility.’’

What exactly are the "very often" maintenance considerations? It's a big block of concrete, right? Are we talking about a lot of NDT checking the integrity of the structure?

Actually, it's also a big giant piece of fabric supported by air that keeps out rain, wind, and snow. No matter how many times you replace it, one day it will fail and SU will lose out... most likely in the winter during basketball season.

 

[xc84]

Back in 2007 there were a group of ten business men who met with the folks at Syracuse.

I was at the meetings.

They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on. They had built other stadiums using a similar model.

Here was what was proposed.

A retractable roof stadium with a hotel built in.

An artificial turfed outdoor football field where fans could play.

They proposed to build retail into south campus for the students.

For parking and access they would have to take out part of Drumlins Golf Course and they'd petition NYSDOT for access from 481.

They also proposed a Hall of Fame restaurant much like the one in in Louisville.

There was even talk of installing an El system from South to Main Campus.

All the University had to do was provide the land.

As a part of the business deal parking and concessions would be shared.

There would be a Walk of Fame where there would be busts, plaques and statues of Syracuse greats.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall.

At the end of that period the stock market crashed.

This effort really had traction but like they say, timing is everything.

I don't know if this model can be put together again but I thought it was pretty solid at the time.

I have always thought the Skytop area using Drumlins was the best option along with new 481 access. It seems as close to perfect as we'll find. While the Kennedy Square site is not a good one IMO, I really doubt that would have been the selected site even with the state funding that was rejected by Minor.

 

[xc84]

It would be foolish to just take someone's word for it without studying. I really doubt you are this desperate, gullible, and trusting taking risks in your own life

So the 10 guys proposing it and financing it didn't study it? And you know this how?

 

[xc84]

Come on. That $200 million was a carrot that Cuomo was holding out to entice CNY. It was never real, available money. You don't throw together a stadium project in a couple of weeks. Shame on NYS if that were the case. The mayor was the one showing the most fiscal responsibility in this whole charade. Too bad she's getting crushed in the wheels of the Democractic party's juggernaut.

If the $200 million was not real, then why would Miner oppose it?

 

[Millhouse]

So the 10 guys proposing it and financing it didn't study it? And you know this how?

i'm sure they studied it and found that it would work out great for *themselves*. and presumably it was in their own best interest for SU to think about this as little as possible.

that's a red flag to anyone with anything between their ears

 

[xc84]

i'm sure they studied it and found that it would work out great for *themselves*. and presumably it was in their own best interest for SU to think about this as little as possible.

that's a red flag to anyone with anything between their ears

SU won't do it without ensuring it works for them and it seems that the only obstacle, according to OE, was the stock market.

"They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved."

 

[Millhouse]

SU won't do it without ensuring it works for them and it seems that the only obstacle, according to OE, was the stock market.

"They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved."

read his post again.

"They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall."

if you're doing a feasibility study and hitting a 4 month stall then clearly it wasn't approved

 

[xc84]

read his post again.

"They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall."

if you're doing a feasibility study and hitting a 4 month stall then clearly it wasn't approved

OE stated it had the approval of SU if "Syracuse" means SU but maybe OE can clarify for us.

 

[Orangeyes]

read his post again.

"They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall."

if you're doing a feasibility study and hitting a 4 month stall then clearly it wasn't approved

You have no idea what you are talking about. The stall had to do with something I'm not going to get in to.

 

[Millhouse]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The stall had to do with something I'm not going to get in to.

someone was able to stall it. which means someone whose approval was needed clearly didn't approve of it yet

 

[Orangeyes]

someone was able to stall it. which means someone whose approval was needed clearly didn't approve of it yet

Not even close

For reasons I can't air it happened had nothing to do with approvals

 

[Millhouse]

Not even close

For reasons I can't air it happened had nothing to do with approvals

that's fine, you divulge what you want. but without those details, you can't expect to convince people who think someone who would end up footing a big bill (leases, taxes, something) objected to this

250,000,000 conservatively low estimate of the cost
10% conservatively low discount rate
=
26.5 million annual profit required to break even

if i were building a stadium that primarily required SU to make those payments, i would want SU to sign a contract very quickly

i don't need to have been in the room to know that the land wasn't the only thing to which SU need to agree

 

[Jasoncuse]

Public funding for a new stadium in Syracuse should be well behind public funds for a new stadium for the Bills. Cuomo, thankfully, seems pretty invested in doing what it takes to keep the Bills in WNY. If NYS is going to foot the bill for any sort of major stadium upgrade or addition, it will be in WNY.

 

[xc84]

Public funding for a new stadium in Syracuse should be well behind public funds for a new stadium for the Bills.

Why's that? Is a tenant that could leave a better investment than one that can't.

 

[xc84]

i don't need to have been in the room to know that the land wasn't the only thing to which SU need to agree

What about SU having approved it do you not understand? If you don't believe OE, then your response makes sense but otherwise not. He didn't say "land" was the only thing they approved.
"They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved."
A business plan would include more than a site.

Seems calc. assumes 10 years...not sure where you pulled that from. do you think the stadium would have a 10 year life? Take it to 20 and cut your cashflow needs in half ! Problem solved!

 

[Killdozer]

good thing Millhouse is not in charge of change and development or we would all be living in Bedrock.

 

[Millhouse]

What about SU having approved it do you not understand? If you don't believe OE, then your response makes sense but otherwise not. He didn't say "land" was the only thing they approved.
"They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved."
A business plan would include more than a site.

Seems calc. assumes 10 years...not sure where you pulled that from. do you think the stadium would have a 10 year life? Take it to 20 and cut your cashflow needs in half ! Problem solved!

no my calculation assumed 30 years (which is conservative). the discount rate matters alot. this is not risk free (I assume you were just dividing by 250M by 26.5M)

=-PMT(10%,30,250000000)

 

[xc84]

no my calculation assumed 30 years (which is conservative). the discount rate matters alot. this is not risk free (I assume you were just dividing by 250M by 26.5M)

=-PMT(10%,30,250000000)

Nah. I had adjusted for monthly payment rate without adjusting the number of periods. My bad. Even so, the your calc. is done without knowing any details and yet you think that is more credible than what OE wrote about the 10 investors and the interactions with SU. Did you factor in naming rights? Vendor rent? non-SU tenant rental? Income from box suites? Concert rentals? Will the state/county, etc. offer incentives in this plan?