REMEMBER THE NEW STADIUM?

[Millhouse]

Nah. I had adjusted for monthly payment rate without adjusting the number of periods. My bad. Even so, the your calc. is done without knowing any details and yet you think that is more credible than what OE wrote about the 10 investors and the interactions with SU. Did you factor in naming rights? Vendor rent? non-SU tenant rental? Income from box suites? Concert rentals? Will the state/county, etc. offer incentives in this plan?

It ain't adding up to that much unless they're taking someone for a ride

 

[xc84]

It ain't adding up to that much unless they're taking someone for a ride

Easier to just admit you actually don't know a single detail.

If you get 10 investors in a room pitching a proposal and the target of the proposal agrees it it good for them, how is it that you, a person who was not there and knows no financial details (not a single one) of the proposal can judge it to be a bad deal?

Somehow, your cocktail napkin Finance 101 demo is the analysis that Syracuse University overlooked when assessing it? Just what is it that you think they reviewed/analyzed before agreeing it was a good option if they didn't even consider the costs to them as you infer?

 

[Madbiker]

Back in 2007 there were a group of ten business men who met with the folks at Syracuse.

I was at the meetings.

They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on. They had built other stadiums using a similar model.

Here was what was proposed.

A retractable roof stadium with a hotel built in.

An artificial turfed outdoor football field where fans could play.

They proposed to build retail into south campus for the students.

For parking and access they would have to take out part of Drumlins Golf Course and they'd petition NYSDOT for access from 481.

They also proposed a Hall of Fame restaurant much like the one in in Louisville.

There was even talk of installing an El system from South to Main Campus.

All the University had to do was provide the land.

As a part of the business deal parking and concessions would be shared.

There would be a Walk of Fame where there would be busts, plaques and statues of Syracuse greats.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall.

At the end of that period the stock market crashed.

This effort really had traction but like they say, timing is everything.

I don't know if this model can be put together again but I thought it was pretty solid at the time.

Thanks for posting. Much prefer this concept to the state's downtown idea. (1) Projects driven by private business capital are usually better thought, planned and executed than government political based projects. (2) An on campus site is better for student/ university involvement. Some here don't care if students attend games or not nor care much about the university...but I do. Far fewer students will attend an off campus site. Would rather work toward this down the road than rush in to a half baked rushed plan just because it's more immediate.

 

[Millhouse]

Easier to just admit you actually don't know a single detail. If you get 10 investors in a room pitching a proposal and the target of the proposal agrees it it good for them, how is it that you, a person who was not there and knows no financial details (not a single one) of the proposal can judge it to be a bad deal? Somehow, your cocktail napkin Finance 101 demo is the analysis that Syracuse University overlooked when assessing it? Just what is it that you think they reviewed/analyzed before agreeing it was a good option if they didn't even consider the costs to them as you infer?

You are not following. I'm sure the deal was great for them. I suspect the deal was terrible for the school despite orange yes's assurances

 

[xc84]

You are not following. I'm sure the deal was great for them. I suspect the deal was terrible for the school despite orange yes's assurances

I guess you are not following because my post was about SU's view.

 

[Townie72]

We paid for Building part of Yankee Stadium, and keeping the Bills in Mew York State we will pay. We've paid for Mario's folly of Turning Stone, and his sons giving them exclusive rights. Its time Upstate gets some money back from the state, rather then it going elsewhere.

Because multiple wrongs don't make a right.

All this is is squandering more taxpayer dollars chasing short term political benefit.

NY State has been dying for years because of high taxes and high labor costs that are necessary because workers pay such high taxes.. This is just more of the same.

 

[CuseOnly]

leave it alone, fix the roof if you have to, don't make people in long island pay for it

I am paying for Yankee Stadium, Sissy Field and Metlife. It is only fair that people on Long Island pay for something for our area.

Whether that is a new stadium for Syracuse University or a giant statue of a turd colored snowbank for $1 Billion dollars in the heart of Downtown Syracuse to commemorate out 10th victory in the golden snowball contest. We have payed for enough garbage down there, it's only fair.

 

[CuseOnly]

Because multiple wrongs don't make a right.

All this is is squandering more taxpayer dollars chasing short term political benefit.

NY State has been dying for years because of high taxes and high labor costs that are necessary because workers pay such high taxes.. This is just more of the same.

But it is fair that they take and we don't? The money will get spent, like all government budgets...use it or lose it. Even if it is spent on garbage. I choose for the garbage to be here.

 

[Oakland]

No risk to the State of New York? Is that because taxpayer money is free?

Because feasibility studies take time. Typically that time is wasted time, particularly where there was no risk to SU, the City of Syracuse or the State of New York. Why do you need a feasibility study when you have no risk?

 

[Oakland]

The NFL is one of the most successful enterprises in the USA, these are the last people that need taxpayer handouts.

Public funding for a new stadium in Syracuse should be well behind public funds for a new stadium for the Bills. Cuomo, thankfully, seems pretty invested in doing what it takes to keep the Bills in WNY. If NYS is going to foot the bill for any sort of major stadium upgrade or addition, it will be in WNY.

 

[xc84]

No risk to the State of New York? Is that because taxpayer money is free?

His comment was about what OE stated which stated nothing about taxpayers funding it.

 

[xc84]

The NFL is one of the most successful enterprises in the USA, these are the last people that need taxpayer handouts.

LOL...that's why the NFL is successful. Taxpayers foot the bill for their stadiums and related infrastructure.

Then, 10 years later, they hold the cities hostage for new stadiums or threats to leave.

 

[Millhouse]

I am paying for Yankee Stadium, Sissy Field and Metlife. It is only fair that people on Long Island pay for something for our area.

Whether that is a new stadium for Syracuse University or a giant statue of a turd colored snowbank for $1 Billion dollars in the heart of Downtown Syracuse to commemorate out 10th victory in the golden snowball contest. We have payed for enough garbage down there, it's only fair.

you're not the only who thinks like this which is why NY spends all our money on turds

 

[KaiserUEO]

you're not the only who thinks like this which is why NY spends all our money on turds

especially if NY is sending $$ to pay for a Stadium in NJ as he suggests.

 

[xc84]

you're not the only who thinks like this which is why NY spends all our money on turds

Name a state that has a significant stadium that has not provided financial incentives (funding) for it.

 

[Millhouse]

Name a state that has a significant stadium that has not provided financial incentives (funding) for it.

we already have a significant stadium that other people paid for. one that lots of other schools would love to have.

 

[Alsacs]

Millhouse do you believe in anarchism? It seems you hate a lot of government spending. While everyone hates pork its never going away. Unless their were term limits for Congress or governors never wanted for President maybe you could get rid of pork spending.

If Syracuse University could get 200 million in pork money from Gov. Coumo so he can run his re-election numbers thru the roof for a 2016/2020/2024 bid for the WHite House its smart. He wants to get votes in Upstate and if he gives SU fans a new stadium and contribute 200 million dollars for it he does what Sen. Clinton did in 2006 in her re-election run up a huge re-election result and use it to springboard campaign contributions for higher office. If Clinton doesn't run in 2016 Cuomo, Biden, Warren, O'Malley will be an interesting primary and Cuomo wants his ducks lined up.

 

[Millhouse]

Millhouse do you believe in anarchism? It seems you hate a lot of government spending.

this is a very stupid post. if i thought the stadium was a good idea, i wouldn't want other proponents to make arguments this dumb

 

[OttoMets]

Thanks for posting. Much prefer this concept to the state's downtown idea. (1) Projects driven by private business capital are usually better thought, planned and executed than government political based projects. (2) An on campus site is better for student/ university involvement. Some here don't care if students attend games or not nor care much about the university...but I do. Far fewer students will attend an off campus site. Would rather work toward this down the road than rush in to a half baked rushed plan just because it's more immediate.

I agree about the preference for an on-campus site, but a Skytop stadium would effectively be off-campus for the majority of potential student fans and for those of us who enjoy the college atmosphere.

It's a soulless site with terrible vehicular access (with or without an expensive 481 exit), few transit options, and not walkable from anything other than a handful of single-familay residential neighborhoods.

Glad this didn't happen.

 

[Millhouse]

I agree about the preference for an on-campus site, but a Skytop stadium would effectively be off-campus for the majority of potential student fans and for those of us who enjoy the college atmosphere.

It's a soulless site with terrible vehicular access (with or without an expensive 481 exit), few transit options, and not walkable from anything other than a handful of single-familay residential neighborhoods.

Glad this didn't happen.

people who need to pay for the 481 exit shouldn't be allowed to put the brakes on anything. if 10 investors want a new exit, 10 investors get a new exit.

worrying about walkability is the reason that people hate feasibility studies.

 

[chakka3421]

To all - you have to do simple ROI math. With rates so low, here is a simple illustration:

1. $200 million state grant
2. $200 - $250 million muni bond issuance depending upon 3 below - $1 - $1.5 million in principal & interest annual carrying costs
3. Up to $100 million in private fundraising like naming rights as 1 example

Ongoing costs are covered by advertising, box, ticket & concessions - multiple event stadium produces more revenue at same time spreads fixed expenses over more events. Because of what we know about past attendance to all the groups who would use the new stadium, it's a very easy ROI calculation with limited initial risk.

Again I state the obvious - Mayor Minor was and is to this day a political minor leaguer who is in over her head. She has made strategic political mistakes with the Gov & Dem party and now has compounded those political mistakes with a major financial mistakes - that would have increased the property taxes revenue for the city. She needs to go.

 

[OttoMets]

people who need to pay for the 481 exit shouldn't be allowed to put the brakes on anything. if 10 investors want a new exit, 10 investors get a new exit.

worrying about walkability is the reason that people hate feasibility studies.

Taking into account walkability is, of course, the only appropriate way to go about developing an attraction meant to draw 50,000 people at a time.

The great irony in the Skytop plan is that all the Central New Yorkers who love the site and aren't interested in walking everywhere would be stuck in epic traffic along with thousands of people who were accustomed to walking partway to the Dome but were forced into cars to access this new isolated site.

It'd be like the State Fair on every football Saturday.

 

[OttoMets]

...

Again I state the obvious - Mayor Minor was and is to this day a political minor leaguer who is in over her head. She has made strategic political mistakes with the Gov & Dem party ...

Yes.

...and now has compounded those political mistakes with a major financial mistakes - that would have increased the property taxes revenue for the city. ...

No way. A new stadium would be property-tax exempt for at least 30 years.

 

[xc84]

I agree about the preference for an on-campus site, but a Skytop stadium would effectively be off-campus for the majority of potential student fans and for those of us who enjoy the college atmosphere.

It's a soulless site with terrible vehicular access (with or without an expensive 481 exit), few transit options, and not walkable from anything other than a handful of single-familay residential neighborhoods.

Glad this didn't happen.

I agree about the campus feel (not to the extent of "soulless"). I disagree about vehicle access. Access from 481 (new ramps) would be tons better than what we have today with our on-campus facility. The site would also have adequate space for parking and tailgating. While I love my current tailgating, there are many who insist on the one large parking area for tailgating with a short walk from cars to seat.

 

[xc84]

Taking into account walkability is, of course, the only appropriate way to go about developing an attraction meant to draw 50,000 people at a time.

The great irony in the Skytop plan is that all the Central New Yorkers who love the site and aren't interested in walking everywhere would be stuck in epic traffic along with thousands of people who were accustomed to walking partway to the Dome but were forced into cars to access this new isolated site.

It'd be like the State Fair on every football Saturday.

When Manley was the hoops site, we would park on nearby streets and walk to the arena. With Skytop, if you want to walk, you could park on a street near Manley, or at Manley and walk on the new sidewalks they will build going up the the new stadium. If you don't want to walk, you ride a shuttle from the university or Manley to the stadium. If you want a really short walk from your car, you park at a stadium lot near the new stadium, tailgate, and walk to the stadium.