Resetting expectations?

[Lukeyloo]

Perennial top 25 team. Competing for final fours and national titles on a 5-6 year cycle.

Maybe it's just me, but that feels like an aspiration rather than expectation in the new world of big money college athletics.

 

[Scooch]

In fairness the specific schools you names are basketball only schools so they can allocate a much higher percentage of their rev share to basketball.

My concern it that according to those who are in the know on here, the NIL put together for this roster was tough to raise and included a one-time infusion from a donor. While this roster should be good enough to make the tourney, no one is kidding themselves in thinking this roster is a true contender.

So what's truly possible on a frequent basis? What do we look like if this year included a supposed one-time cash infusion and it's still not good enough?

Red was indifferent to fundraising for at least the first year of his tenure as HC. I suspect a substantial part of the HC hiring process will be to determine who has (a) preexisting sources of NIL and (b) who’s most adept at shaking down SU boosters and potential donors.

Funding isn’t static.

 

[Scooch]

Maybe it's just me, but that feels like an aspiration rather than expectation in the new world of big money college athletics.

If we can’t achieve that then SU should consider downscaling its athletics department. I’ve said this before and I mean it. If we can’t be a national power in men’s basketball then we shouldn’t be swimming in these waters.

 

[Lukeyloo]

That argument by them is lacking context. In 2014, the fan base was at peak engagement and the brand was at peak prominence for the previous decade as well. Where the program was in 2014 would’ve for sure been at the top of competitiveness for NIL. I guess it’s easy to underestimate how big Syracuse basketball was not long ago, Saturday’s in January and February at the dome was the scene, arguably in the entire northeast. I think a reasonable expectation now is to get the program to regular tournament bids and have a number next to its name at times in January and February. If you fund to that goal, sometimes you may even overachieve and get on a run and achieve championship level outcomes. Once you regularly get back to that level, you may energize the fan base to fund at even higher levels. They had the funding and built a roster that should get a tournament bid and be in and out of the top 25 during the year. Just not playing close to that level. The program needs to perform to the level that games at the dome become events and not just another game. Need energy and enthusiasm again in the program.

I guess I see it as a catch 22, you need fans to be energized in order to have the best chance of raising funds, but you have your best chance of energizing fans if you have funds to get good talent.

Along with a new coach, we need to buy our way back to success if we can. I watched BYU's home court look like a madhouse last night. A stark difference from the library-quiet dome lately. BYU has never been anyone in CBB, they've bought themselves prominence.

 

[Newhouser]

It depends. The money is out there for us. It's a matter of whether we can get a coach that can inspire and go out for the cash that is out there and is needed. I think and I'm not positive of this, Red was uncomfortable asking donors for money. you can't be that way in todays world. We need someone like Fran who isn't afraid to gets their hands dirty. In my old world, clients will give you referrals. But most won't ask for them the way they should. Which is always.

Question for you - do you think the money is out there for both football and basketball to remain in the "upper" division of big time college sports? I'm starting to wonder if it's an either or proposition in terms of football and hoops.

 

[kingtidge]

Question for you - do you think the money is out there for both football and basketball to remain in the "upper" division of big time college sports? I'm starting to wonder if it's an either or proposition in terms of football and hoops.

Why the wonder?

Wildhack has come out repeatedly and said they don't have the corporate NIL they need.

How far short is the real question.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Schools don’t just “get” $20.5 million to compensate athletes. They have to *fund* that much if they decide to use the full allowed allotment.

These school’s revenues are a fraction of what P4 schools generate.

My hunch is that prominent hoops-onlies are not paying 75% of that $20.5 million to men’s basketball players. I doubt they’re funding the full $20.5 million and definitely not self funding it through university revenue. They’re leaning hard on private donors, I suspect, to fill the gap. Which means less available money for NIL.

They actually prefer to use it out of rev share because you can get donors to contribute to the general AD funds and get the tax write off. If you're going the NIL route, you need to own/run a business and have a legit marketing purpose. Most donors don't like messing with NIL -- but they can donate to the AD and fund it that way. I believe most of UConn's funding for their basketball team comes straight out of the rev share allotment.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Why the wonder?

Wildhack has come out repeatedly and said they don't have the corporate NIL they need.

How far short is the real question.

we need more corporate money yes. i think we do well on the private side. but you also never say you have enough money

 

[richmondcuse03]

Question for you - do you think the money is out there for both football and basketball to remain in the "upper" division of big time college sports? I'm starting to wonder if it's an either or proposition in terms of football and hoops.

As it currently stands, I feel confident saying we're safely in the top half of the ACC for both football and men's bball. So yes, i think the money is there.

 

[2B20Again]

We 100%, absolutely, without a doubt can compete for championships. This isn’t football. We need a coach that will inspire donors. And we will get one. The NIL is there. How can St. John’s do it? How does Villanova? How about Gonzaga? UConn? These are not SEC/Big Ten schools with
endless cash.

St. John’s has 2 major contributors billionaire with open and deep pockets, and no football. UCONN until recently used majority of funds on hoops and Pennie’s for football. A couple of posts ago said the good teams seem to have the largest NIL. Shouldn’t that be the teams with the largest NIL have good teams. Initial NIL May bring a player or players in but retention is the key. Without retention no continuity. It’s all about the Benjamin’s!

 

[Nicknack]

I think the impact of NIL is a fair question but this year's issues are mostly on coaching. Let's not confuse this please.

 

[Scooch]

They actually prefer to use it out of rev share because you can get donors to contribute to the general AD funds and get the tax write off. If you're going the NIL route, you need to own/run a business and have a legit marketing purpose. Most donors don't like messing with NIL -- but they can donate to the AD and fund it that way. I believe most of UConn's funding for their basketball team comes straight out of the rev share allotment.

Makes total sense.

I just bristle at the latest excuse from the usual suspects that we’re at a big disadvantage vs hoops onlies. Sure they don’t have football to fund, but they also have dramatically less revenue overall.

The excuse-making really gets exhausting.

 

[Scooch]

FWIW, UConn didn’t even pay out the full $20.5 million they’re allowed to this year. Their AD said they were spending $18 million. Hell, if they put 75% of that towards men’s hoops that’s ~$13 million. And that seems aggressive given that they committed to paying every athlete there. What did we spend on men’s hoops? 10-ish million all in?

 

[RedtheGOB]

Perennial top 25 team. Competing for final fours and national titles on a 5-6 year cycle.

Agreed. With all of Autry's shortcomings and player shortcomings they were right there.

How many games can you lose by 1 possession before the wheels fall off. I stopped counting at 5 or 6...

We're basically looking for a coach to inspire confidence and bring in a team with guys that have the confidence to make shots at the end of games and close them out.

We know Autry never figured it out at the end of games, JJ/George and even Donnie lately are not the guys and that's all it took to go from well maybe thing will be ok to nightmare.

 

[kingtidge]

I think the impact of NIL is a fair question but this year's issues are mostly on coaching. Let's not confuse this please.

No one was saying it isn't.

The NIL questions are on next year and beyond.

 

[Cuse12]

Unfortunately this seems to resemble the MLB way of doing things the way the current NIL rules are. So it’s simple to me, either spend money to make money or play money ball. If your expectations are spend money to make money, our expectations should mirror what they always have and that’s being a perennial power consistently in the top 25 and we are arguing which seed we should be. If we play moneyball then expectations are to just make the tourney. It’s that simple to me.

I have a bigger question, I would consider cuse to be a top 10 historical program. Of the other 9 teams in that list, where do we rank in regards to NIL? How are the others doing it and we can’t? Why is it constantly this feeling like we are in the “have nots” although we have historically been a great program? Why are we the odd program out?

 

[richmondcuse03]

FWIW, UConn didn’t even pay out the full $20.5 million they’re allowed to this year. Their AD said they were spending $18 million. Hell, if they put 75% of that towards men’s hoops that’s ~$13 million. And that seems aggressive given that they committed to paying every athlete there. What did we spend on men’s hoops? 10-ish million all in?

I've heard their bball budget is 12M'ish this year, which i have to imagine is a top ten budget for ball.

 

[Scooch]

As it currently stands, I feel confident saying we're safely in the top half of the ACC for both football and men's bball. So yes, i think the money is there.

I’m gonna just keep reposting richmondcuse’s posts until everyone reads every one. LOL.

The money is there.

The money is there.

The money is there.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Makes total sense.

I just bristle at the latest excuse from the usual suspects that we’re at a big disadvantage vs hoops onlies. Sure they don’t have football to fund, but they also have dramatically less revenue overall.

The excuse-making really gets exhausting.

yea, I'm pretty sure UCONN would rather be getting ACC money vs. their current TV contract.

 

[Scooch]

I've heard their bball budget is 12M'ish this year, which i have to imagine is a top ten budget for ball.

Thanks! So if we spent $10M that seems like we should be able to compete.

 

[Nicknack]

No one was saying it isn't.

The NIL questions are on next year and beyond.

The two are obviously related and my point (opinion) is that NIL won't keep us from getting back to being a top program if we have the coaching in place which we haven't had in many years.

 

[sufan59]

yea, I'm pretty sure UCONN would rather be getting ACC money vs. their current TV contract.

They are definitely getting more serious and spending more money in football now. For Syracuse it certainly raises the competition level on the recruiting trail in the northeast if you added another power conference opponent, but UConn belongs with Syracuse in a conference. It's just not as much fun.

 

[sufan59]

Thanks! So if we spent $10M that seems like we should be able to compete.

Hurley would have this Syracuse team as a top 20-25 team and 6 seed in the tournament with the talent.

 

[Scooch]

Hurley would have this Syracuse team as a top 20-25 team and 6 seed in the tournament with the talent.

The most predictable thing ever was some folks who said the talent was really good this summer changing their tune and now saying we’re NIL poor and the talent isn’t good enough.

 

[MGDCuse]

Cromulent and strategery in the same post. Weird.

It's a pretty funny post, actually, if you look up the origin of the word cromulent. (which I had to) I wonder how long he had that one in the chamber.