RIP James Gandolfini | Syracusefan.com

RIP James Gandolfini

DeGrozz

DeGrozz

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(Selfish thought of the moment) I was always hoping that we'd get some closure on the Sopranos, guess not.
 
We got closure. Tony Soprano was killed. It was as clear as could be.
 
iommi said:
We got closure. Tony Soprano was killed. It was as clear as could be.
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Really??! Tony died?

In all seriousness though -- I always thought that the rumors were about the possibility of a mini-series unwinding the rest of the characters stories and it wasn't gonna happen unless everyone from the series was on-board (including Gandolfini).
 
RIP James. Great actor in one of the best series ever.
 
Very sad to read that his 13 year old son was the one who was with him when he died. I would never want my boy to see me like that.
 
KingOtis said:
It was far from clear. And that goes for any theory.
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The moment it happened it wasn't perfectly clear, but looking back at the circumstances and the foreshadowing in previous episodes, it's pretty clear that Tony's dead.
 
DeGrozz said:
The moment it happened it wasn't perfectly clear, but looking back at the circumstances and the foreshadowing in previous episodes, it's pretty clear that Tony's dead.
Expand...
No, it's not. But I'm interested to hear the details of your theory.
 
KingOtis said:
No, it's not. But I'm interested to hear the details of your theory.
Expand...
There are a ton of obvious things pointing to Tony being shot and killed. Here are some.

in an earlier episode Eugene Pontecorvo kills a guy with the initials TS while wearing a Member's Only jacket. In the last scene of the show, the guy who goes into the bathroom is credited as "guy in Member's Only jacket." Oh, the last time Tony was shot (by Junior)... The name of the episode...Member's Only.

This post would be ten pages long if I include all the hints...but some more...

An orange cat represents death and foreboding in literature and film. Paulie is disturbed by an orange cat hanging out in Satriale's in the last episode. When Tony walks into the restaurant, Chase has one shot where Tony sees himself in the booth. It's designed for several things. It shows what booth Tony chose (that will be important because killer is able to get behind Tony after coming out of bathroom..."he never saw it coming."), but also what is in the frame above him? An orange cat! It's a high school mascot picture or something but its not there just for sh@ts and giggles.

Tony was seen eating an orange earlier in the day...in The Godfather, Vito Corleoneis shot while buying oranges.

Everything in the final scene was shot from Tonys perspective, except for the shot of the guy coming out of the bathroom. Oh, and the guy coming out the bathroom is another obvious Godfather reference.

Meadow was shown having trouble parking her car to build suspense but also to show that she was late to sit next to Tony... If she were there, the guy wouldn't have had a clear shot and maybe never shoots Tony at all in fear of hitting Meadow.

All the people shown in the restaurant are symbolic... The black guys represent the black guys who tried to kill Tony in season 1... The guy in the USA hat represents the Feds, etc. They all represent threats to Tony.

The music stops and Chase goes to black...why? Because Tony is dead. We were watching the show from his perspective and now our eyes and ears are not there. The last line is "don't stop." And then... It does. Why? I just told you why.

I could go on, but iPad typing sucks.
 
iommi said:
There are a ton of obvious things pointing to Tony being shot and killed. Here are some.

in an earlier episode Eugene Pontecorvo kills a guy with the initials TS while wearing a Member's Only jacket. In the last scene of the show, the guy who goes into the bathroom is credited as "guy in Member's Only jacket." Oh, the last time he was shot (by Junior)... The name of the episode...Member's Only.

This post would be ten pages long if I include all the hints...but some more...

An orange cat represents death and foreboding in literature and film. Paulie is disturbed by an orange cat hanging out in Satriale's in the last episode. When Tony walks into the restaurant, Chase has one shot where Tony sees himself in the booth. It's designed for several things. It shows what booth Tony chose (that will be important because killer is able to get behind Tony after coming out of bathroom..."he never saw it coming."), but also what is in the frame above him? A orange cat! It's a high school mascot picture or something but its not there just for sh@ts and giggles.

Tony was seen eating an orange earlier in the day...in The Godfather, Vito Corleoneis shot while buying oranges.

Everything in the final scene was shot from Tonys perspective, except for the shot of the guy coming out of the bathroom. Oh, and the guy coming out the bathroom is another obvious Godfather reference.

Meadow was shown having trouble parking her car to build suspense but also to show that she was late to sit next to Tony... If she were there, the guy wouldn't have had a clear shot and maybe never shoots Tony at all in fear of hitting Meadow.

All the people shown in the restaurant are symbolic... The black guys represent the black guys who tried to kill Tony in season 1... The guy in the USA hat represents the Feds, etc. They all represent threats to Tony.

The music stops and Chase goes to black...why? Because Tony is dead. We were watching the show from his perspective and now our eyes and ears are not there. The last line is "don't stop." And then... It does. Why? I just told you why.

I could go on, but iPad typing sucks.
Expand...


And I think we both didn't post the most obvious ones --

When Journey is playing and the guy in the members only jacket walks in the music blasts "Strangers".

Also, in the diner, they start showing a point of view from Tony. Every time the bell rings when the door opens they switch to Tony's point of view... When Tony first walks in; when Carmela walks in; when patrons walk in; when AJ walks in... then Meadow walks in. The bell rings and the scene goes black and silent (hint/spoiler -- that's Tony's point of view)

He never even heard it coming...

I still wish I knew what happened to some of those other characters though. What a great show.
 
iommi said:
There are a ton of obvious things pointing to Tony being shot and killed. Here are some.

in an earlier episode Eugene Pontecorvo kills a guy with the initials TS while wearing a Member's Only jacket. In the last scene of the show, the guy who goes into the bathroom is credited as "guy in Member's Only jacket." Oh, the last time Tony was shot (by Junior)... The name of the episode...Member's Only.

This post would be ten pages long if I include all the hints...but some more...

An orange cat represents death and foreboding in literature and film. Paulie is disturbed by an orange cat hanging out in Satriale's in the last episode. When Tony walks into the restaurant, Chase has one shot where Tony sees himself in the booth. It's designed for several things. It shows what booth Tony chose (that will be important because killer is able to get behind Tony after coming out of bathroom..."he never saw it coming."), but also what is in the frame above him? An orange cat! It's a high school mascot picture or something but its not there just for sh@ts and giggles.

Tony was seen eating an orange earlier in the day...in The Godfather, Vito Corleoneis shot while buying oranges.

Everything in the final scene was shot from Tonys perspective, except for the shot of the guy coming out of the bathroom. Oh, and the guy coming out the bathroom is another obvious Godfather reference.

Meadow was shown having trouble parking her car to build suspense but also to show that she was late to sit next to Tony... If she were there, the guy wouldn't have had a clear shot and maybe never shoots Tony at all in fear of hitting Meadow.

All the people shown in the restaurant are symbolic... The black guys represent the black guys who tried to kill Tony in season 1... The guy in the USA hat represents the Feds, etc. They all represent threats to Tony.

The music stops and Chase goes to black...why? Because Tony is dead. We were watching the show from his perspective and now our eyes and ears are not there. The last line is "don't stop." And then... It does. Why? I just told you why.

I could go on, but iPad typing sucks.
Expand...


Yes, all of that could be true. As could the following:

A lot of people wear Members Only jackets. Mobsters. People who act like they're mobsters. People who live in New Jersey. Italians. Jews. People who can't afford a decent jacket. Or, based on everything you said, it could simply be a red herring.

I've studied both film and literature and I've never heard anything about orange cats representing death and foreboding. Nevertheless, Paulie was disturbed by the cat, not Tony. And it's not an orange cat hanging in the restaurant, it's a tiger. The Princeton Tiger, I believe.

The Members Only guy would not have been able to get behind Tony. Tony could see the bathroom with his peripheral vision. That's probably why he picked that spot. View of the front door and the bathrooms.

Yes, Vito was buying oranges when he was shot and eating/playing with oranges when he actually died. Tony wasn't eating oranges in the restaurant. He was eating onion rings.

There's no shot of the guy coming out of the bathroom, visually or audibly. He could still be in the bathroom when the show ends.

Yes, there are a lot of shots from Tony's POV. There are also a lot of shots of Tony, including the last shot. More on this in my reply to DeGrozz.

Why would the killer care if he hit Meadow or not? And before you said he was going to come up from behind.

The Black guys could just be Black guys. The guy in the USA hat could just be a guy in a USA hat. They could represent threats to Tony or they could represent perceived threats to Tony. Again, more on that in my next reply.

Yes, the last line we hear from the song is, "Don't stop." The lyrics of the song also include, "But the movie never ends, it goes on and on and on and on..." Couldn't Chase also be saying that there really isn't an ending? That he's been telling you stories about this family for six seasons and there lives aren't over just because the show is over? AJ reminds Tony that he told him to remember the good times. It's not about the end, it's about the - wait for it - Journey.
 
DeGrozz said:
And I think we both didn't post the most obvious ones --

When Journey is playing and the guy in the members only jacket walks in the music blasts "Strangers".

Also, in the diner, they start showing a point of view from Tony. Every time the bell rings when the door opens they switch to Tony's point of view... When Tony first walks in; when Carmela walks in; when patrons walk in; when AJ walks in... then Meadow walks in. The bell rings and the scene goes black and silent (hint/spoiler -- that's Tony's point of view)

He never even heard it coming...

I still wish I knew what happened to some of those other characters though. What a great show.
Expand...


"Strangers" could be a coincidence or a red herring. It could also be about Tony's relationship with AJ. AJ walks in at the same time as Members Only.

The scene does a good job of getting us inside Tony's head. Everything you said could be 100% accurate. But it could also be a way of showing us what it's like to be Tony. You go to a restaurant and you have to scope it out for the safest table. A spot where you can see everything. Everyone who comes in could be trying to kill you. A guy in a Members Only jacket. A couple of Black guys. A guy in a USA hat. That's Tony's life. Always looking over his shoulder. Wondering if he'll live another day. Wondering what death is like. And just as everything leading up to that scene could be foreshadowing his demise, it could also be showing us how paranoid Tony has become.

But again, there are also shots of Tony from the audience's POV. I've heard theories that we're the ones who "die." We don't get to follow their lives anymore. When it cuts to black, how many people thought the cable went out? How many people said, "What was that?" Did anyone see it coming?
 
Guinness said:
It is weird how some TV shows get into your head. Feels like a friend died.
Expand...

I'm guessing Gandolfini the actor was a regular guy like the rest of us, trying his best to get by doing something he liked doing. I'm sure he would have been great to have beers with, so no crap to guys like you and VT. But I never liked that show, as it seemed to me it was trying to make people who did some really sh!tty things seem like that was okay because they loved their families. In the one episode I saw, Tony ran over some guy with his car and then got out and while kicking him on his broken legs shouted, " Gimme my F-ing money! Gimme my F-ing money!" as the guy lay helpless on the ground, screaming in pain. I changed the channel and never went back. Just sayin' ...
 
KingOtis said:
"Strangers" could be a coincidence or a red herring. It could also be about Tony's relationship with AJ. AJ walks in at the same time as Members Only.

The scene does a good job of getting us inside Tony's head. Everything you said could be 100% accurate. But it could also be a way of showing us what it's like to be Tony. You go to a restaurant and you have to scope it out for the safest table. A spot where you can see everything. Everyone who comes in could be trying to kill you. A guy in a Members Only jacket. A couple of Black guys. A guy in a USA hat. That's Tony's life. Always looking over his shoulder. Wondering if he'll live another day. Wondering what death is like. And just as everything leading up to that scene could be foreshadowing his demise, it could also be showing us how paranoid Tony has become.

But again, there are also shots of Tony from the audience's POV. I've heard theories that we're the ones who "die." We don't get to follow their lives anymore. When it cuts to black, how many people thought the cable went out? How many people said, "What was that?" Did anyone see it coming?
Expand...


Thanks for sharing the point of view. The 'Tony is dead' theory is so wildly popular, it really made me forget that other possibilities are out there. I'm still interpreting that he's dead, but you bring up some good points that he may not be.
 
Chase himself said that he was surprised that people thought the ending was confounding or unresolved. He said, "it's all there for people who want to find it (the ending)." He and the other show runners also confirmed that the Baccala scene referenced above where he's with Tony in the boat is a very big clue as to what happened. He also said that he finds it hard to believe that people needed some sort of bloody finish to the Tony character. King: everyone has a right to their interpretation but to me, Chase was never about red herrings and things like that. He has tremendous respect for the audience and as he said (paraphrasing)...the final scene wasn't written and shot to f with the audience.
 
iommi said:
Chase himself said that he was surprised that people thought the ending was confounding or unresolved. He said, "it's all there for people who want to find it (the ending)." He and the other show runners also confirmed that the Baccala scene referenced above where he's with Tony in the boat is a very big clue as to what happened. He also said that he finds it hard to believe that people needed some sort of bloody finish to the Tony character. King: everyone has a right to their interpretation but to me, Chase was never about red herrings and things like that. He has tremendous respect for the audience and as he said (paraphrasing)...the final scene wasn't written and shot to f with the audience.
Expand...
Nothing Chase said supports your theory alone. It supports any and every theory. The ending is ambiguous. So sure, whatever you make of it, it's all there. Yes, he said the preceding episode was a clue, as was the episode before that, and the episode before that and so on.

He also said he doesn't want to explain what happened because it would cheapen it for the audience. And if he was going to tell us, he would have told us. That plays into the ending being ambiguous. If he gives a definitive answer, he will alienate anyone with a different theory. So while the ending may not be entirely satisfactory, it allows for the audience to come up with an interpretation that satisfies them.

That's not to say that your theory is wrong or right. My point is simply that it's not obvious or absolute. We can agree on that, right?
 
KingOtis said:
Nothing Chase said supports your theory alone. It supports any and every theory. The ending is ambiguous. So sure, whatever you make of it, it's all there. Yes, he said the preceding episode was a clue, as was the episode before that, and the episode before that and so on.

He also said he doesn't want to explain what happened because it would cheapen it for the audience. And if he was going to tell us, he would have told us. That plays into the ending being ambiguous. If he gives a definitive answer, he will alienate anyone with a different theory. So while the ending may not be entirely satisfactory, it allows for the audience to come up with an interpretation that satisfies them.

That's not to say that your theory is wrong or right. My point is simply that it's not obvious or absolute. We can agree on that, right?
Expand...

Yeah, that's fine. That's fair. Carry on.:cool:
 
KingOtis said:
"Strangers" could be a coincidence or a red herring. It could also be about Tony's relationship with AJ. AJ walks in at the same time as Members Only.

The scene does a good job of getting us inside Tony's head. Everything you said could be 100% accurate. But it could also be a way of showing us what it's like to be Tony. You go to a restaurant and you have to scope it out for the safest table. A spot where you can see everything. Everyone who comes in could be trying to kill you. A guy in a Members Only jacket. A couple of Black guys. A guy in a USA hat. That's Tony's life. Always looking over his shoulder. Wondering if he'll live another day. Wondering what death is like. And just as everything leading up to that scene could be foreshadowing his demise, it could also be showing us how paranoid Tony has become.

But again, there are also shots of Tony from the audience's POV. I've heard theories that we're the ones who "die." We don't get to follow their lives anymore. When it cuts to black, how many people thought the cable went out? How many people said, "What was that?" Did anyone see it coming?
Expand...

So I though we finally got our answer in this interview with Chase and immediately thought of this discussion:

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/27/6006139/did-tony-die-at-the-end-of-the-sopranos

Unfortunately, we didn't:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/sopranos-creator-reveals-happened-tony-article-1.1918906
 
Chase is bsing, he has long said the answer is in the final scene. This video does a great job at explaining it.

 
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