Scouting report on how to beat Syracuse | Syracusefan.com

Scouting report on how to beat Syracuse

jordoo

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I guess a lot of those quotes were from opposing coaches or assistant coaches. Some very interesting stuff but the number one take away is that you have to do a lot of things very well to beat us. There is no one way or simple answer because we have a lot of answers and that is what makes a great team.
 

Knicks411

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Really good read

On Jerami Grant: “Grant is a really, really good player, and he's just starting to blossom now. Next year, he's their leading scorer.”

Fingers crossed
 

ClamOtto

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Interesting article. I think Jay Wright was one of the coaches but can't figure out the others. Two things struck me. 1) transition offense - normally I'd agree but this year it's seemed like we're much more half-court oriented. It seems like more often than not Tyler will pull it back out on the break and set up the offense, but I'd be curious if someone has numbers to contradict my gut feeling. 2) Next year Jerami will be our top scorer. Yes please.
 

NineOneSeven

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Great read.

I see a lot mentioned about our transition game-- I'd like to get even more out of it. I know Tyler doesn't force anything, but would really love if he upped the tempo occasionally, especially early on.

As for the last sentence, let's hope :)
 

jordoo

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Interesting article. I think Jay Wright was one of the coaches but can't figure out the others. Two things struck me. 1) transition offense - normally I'd agree but this year it's seemed like we're much more half-court oriented. It seems like more often than not Tyler will pull it back out on the break and set up the offense, but I'd be curious if someone has numbers to contradict my gut feeling. 2) Next year Jerami will be our top scorer. Yes please.

I wondered about the transition offense as well. It came up over and over again yet we seem to be overly cautious in transition to me and really don't run a whole lot. We do get into early offense a lot because we pushed quickly and slowed down but this is not Scoop/Dion/Brandon who were great finishers all by themselves.
 

SWFLCUSE

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Take it with a grain of salt, but someone in the comments section stated " 14.5 percent of their offense is derived from transition. Only thing they get more offense from is spot-up jumpers." I'd like to see how that compares with the last few years.
 

CorduroyG

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transition offense stuck out for me too. in most years we're dynamite in transition, thats always a key when playing syracuse, dont turn it over and give them run outs. but its not as true this year.

2 cliches about syracuse youll hear every year about them whether its true or not. "theyre so long and athletic" and "theyre so good in transition"
 

CuseFaninVT

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Interesting article. I think Jay Wright was one of the coaches but can't figure out the others. Two things struck me. 1) transition offense - normally I'd agree but this year it's seemed like we're much more half-court oriented. It seems like more often than not Tyler will pull it back out on the break and set up the offense, but I'd be curious if someone has numbers to contradict my gut feeling. 2) Next year Jerami will be our top scorer. Yes please.

That article got me thinking about the transition game as well. I'd say the difference with this year's team and ones of years prior is that this year's team doesn't break off of shots IMHO. That line about long rebounds and fast breaks is more a thing of the past. You will see the team get out and run on the deflected passes and turn-overs, and if the easy bucket isn't there, they bring it out and set the offense. You don't see many empty/unsuccessful fast break attempts by this team.
 

moqui

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using the data from Hoop Math (which only goes back to 2012), you can see a clear decline not only in transition points, but in effectiveness from transition:
m1pd.jpg

they define transition as any possession in which the initial shot attempt comes in the first 10 seconds of a possession following a rebound, made basket or turnover by the opponent.

the numbers don't add up to 100%, so I'm not sure where the other 17 to 20% of the attempts are being credited.
 
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CuseFaninVT

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using the data from Hoop Math (which only goes back to 2012), you can see a clear decline not only in transition points, but in effectiveness from transition:
m1pd.jpg

they define transition as any possession in which the initial shot attempt comes in the first 10 seconds of a possession following a rebound, made basket or turnover by the opponent.

the numbers don't add up to 100%, so I'm not sure where the other 17 to 20% of the points are being credited.

So, if we get a steal within the first 10 seconds, we score nearly 60% of the time? That's how it's read, correct?
 

moqui

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So, if we get a steal within the first 10 seconds, we score nearly 60% of the time? That's how it's read, correct?
that was the 2012 number.

I will summarize:

2012: 28.9% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 60.5%
2013: 26.3% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 56.9%
2014: 22.1% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 53.4%

so, this season represents a 3 year low in both transition opportunities and effectiveness
 

slidingdown

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I think the whole confusion re: transition game is due to Cooney's steal/dunk output in the BC game. Seemed like he had about a hundred of those.

Full disclosure: I may not have been sober during that game, and some of the dunks I saw may have been replays.
 

CuseFaninVT

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that was the 2012 number.

I will summarize:

2012: 28.9% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 60.5%
2013: 26.3% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 56.9%
2014: 22.1% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 53.4%

so, this season represents a 3 year low in both transition opportunities and effectiveness

I think I was correct with my first question, in 2014, a steal within the first 10 seconds results in a SU basket 58.8% of the time. As opposed to in 2012, when the FG % was 72.5%. The transition number shown at the bottom is just adding up the three categories you defined above.

I think the numbers bear fruit to my theory above as well. Transition off of early shots and made baskets is down, even from last year.
 

Full_Rebar

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Running a bit more would be nice, but my only (slight) concern right now is rebounding. Have to keep teams from getting to the offensive glass in March/April.
 

General20

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that was the 2012 number.

I will summarize:

2012: 28.9% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 60.5%
2013: 26.3% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 56.9%
2014: 22.1% of points came in transition, with a FG% of 53.4%

so, this season represents a 3 year low in both transition opportunities and effectiveness

I'm not sure the percentages are exactly right, but the trend is spot on.

The 2012 team had both Waiters and Joseph who were the two best transition players we have had in years (Waiters in particular was an all-time great in transition). That team also had Melo. With Melo they hardly needed to worry about rebounding, they could just release in transition. Yes they gave up a ton of offensive rebounds, but they gave up very few second-chance points because Melo usually blocked the put back attempt.

The 2013 team still liked to get out in transition but they didn't have a shot blocker like Melo so they had to work harder to rebound the ball, and they didn't have en elite transition scorer like Waiters.

The 2014 team is not much interested in getting out in transition unless they they have a wide open dunk off a steal . . . but they generate a lot of steals so they get a pretty good amount of these.
 

moqui

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CuseFaninVT said:
I think I was correct with my first question, in 2014, a steal within the first 10 seconds results in a SU basket 58.8% of the time. As opposed to in 2012, when the FG % was 72.5%. The transition number shown at the bottom is just adding up the three categories you defined above.

I think the numbers bear fruit to my theory above as well. Transition off of early shots and made baskets is down, even from last year.

Yep ... I misread your post
 

mike32768

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Wait, I think I got the seconds thing wrong. If we go to score within the first 10 seconds after a steal (like on a break) that's where that number comes from, correct?

Thats how I read it. Its immaterial how long it took to GET the ball; what matters (when defining a transition score) is how long it takes to shoot it AFTER the steal/rebound.
 

OrangeFoo

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Great article... I second everyone's comment about transition or lack thereof. I'd say being more aggressive and finishing in the open court are the only crticisms I could possible have of Ennis. I have seen a few plays where CJ or Grant was waiting for a fast break that never came and they got a little frustrated. It would be so nice to get easy buckets to really blow open a game.

I also really hope Roberson's limited minutes to bite us in the ass down the road a la Cooney playing emergency point in the final 4 last year... It's unfortunate we've had seemingly a lot of close games lately.

There is not a team in the country that scares me... Having said that I want nothing to do with BE teams in the big dance and I want nothing to do with Ohio State, it reminds me too much of playing Pitt in their glory days of BE thug ball.
 

Orange87

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...but the number one take away is that you have to do a lot of things very well to beat us. There is no one way or simple answer because we have a lot of answers and that is what makes a great team.


Agreed.

'Don't give C.J. room...'

'Don't let Ennis drive...'

'Stay on Cooney...'

Basically, to beat Syracuse it says 'play better than they do'.
 

moqui

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There is no one way or simple answer because we have a lot of answers and that is what makes a great team.

although, if you look at the common themes in our (rare) losses over the last few years, it really isn't that complicated: don't turn the ball over and make shots.

Simple formula, not so easy to execute.
 

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