Class of 2016 - SG/SF Andrew White (VA; Grad Transfer from Nebraska) | Page 171 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2016 SG/SF Andrew White (VA; Grad Transfer from Nebraska)

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I don't see it as "drama" created by AW. It's a reasonable and expected need — to start. He didn't leave Nebraska as a starter to better his NBA prospects by coming off the bench for a different program, regardless of its tourney potential. And that kind of decision should be made without consideration to that one time, when Syracuse had a 2g drafted high, following a season in which he happened to not be a starter.

I DO see Lydon as a SF. Now and in the NBA. I wouldn't want him bulky enough to play the 4. Didn't DC have to pack on a lot of weight to bang at PF In the NBA, and it cost him his quickness?

I also DO see AW playing the back line in our zone. Isn't he gong to be the same kind of defender as CJ Fair? Same size, no? And AW has very nice rebounding stats...

I'm kinda afraid it will be Lydon as The Sith Sixth. For the good of the squad. GMs will drool at his potential anyway.

Lydon is not going to be drafted in the 1st round to be a SF, he is the absolute prototype of what NBA teams are looking at for a stretch 4. 4s banging in the post is a pretty rare thing these days as they are more likely to be sitting in the corner waiting to pop 3s.
 
Lydon is not going to be drafted in the 1st round to be a SF, he is the absolute prototype of what NBA teams are looking at for a stretch 4. 4s banging in the post is a pretty rare thing these days as they are more likely to be sitting in the corner waiting to pop 3s.
Isn't Chandler Parsons considered a SF? That's who I see Lydon compared to the most.
 
Lydon is not going to be drafted in the 1st round to be a SF, he is the absolute prototype of what NBA teams are looking at for a stretch 4. 4s banging in the post is a pretty rare thing these days as they are more likely to be sitting in the corner waiting to pop 3s.

Stretch 4's in the NBA are still wide individuals. Tyler is probably never going to be particularly muscular, and he has good height for the position but he can't exactly just shoot over NBA PF's at will. For the foreseeable future, he'd get eaten alive in the paint in the NBA. We'll see what he shows us this season in terms of ballhandling (which is pretty much the only distinguishing factor between a stretch 4 and a 3). Right now, he's considered to have really good ballhandling for a 4. What does that translate to as a SF? I'm not sure, but I'm confident he'll surprise some people. NBA stretch 4's still have to ball in the paint for a significant chunk of their time on the court.
 
If Lydon is willing to come off the bench, who cares? There might be as many as four players who were promised starting roles to get them through the door: Coleman, Battle, Gillon and White. If that's the case, the decision is between Lydon and Roberson. I'm sure Lydon knows he'll be in there when it matters most.

Agreed, and JB has had a skill of bringing one of his most talented guys of the bench. Generally it allows that player to go up against either a guy who has been out running for a few game mins already or a backup if the other team brings in subs. It also brings an energy to the team that can sometimes jolt them out of coming out flat, and we come out flat pretty often. Lydon as the first man off the bench makes a ton of sense Especially since he can be subbed in at the 3, 4 or 5 situationally based on fouls, matchups or quality of play.
 
Time in college has nothing to do with ability to play M2M.
The concepts are not tough. You need physical ability and desire.
I don't disagree with this, although you're ignoring a lot.

I did disagree with every statement in the post to which I was responding:
• In many ways, playing our 2-3 zone forces our players to have better conditioning and reflexes.
- I thought it was the opposite. Zone saves legs. I've never heard anyone ever suggest that zone defenders run as much as man defenders. Ever. Reflexes? That's not even logical.

• Anyone can play man.
- That's like saying 'anyone can be a good 3pt shooter. Anyone can "play" it, but how many do it well? And why? Skills, ability, desire — as you said. Not everyone has them.

• It's not like in our 2-3 zone players do not match up with other players. It happens all the time. There are constantly 1-on-1 matches on defense.
- We wouldn't have so many scrubs hitting 3s on us just by catching and shooting without making any '1-on-1' moves, if that were the case. While our defenders do a 'fly by,' sailing out of bounds, carried by the momentum from recovering from defending a different player or space on the floor. Maybe it's just semantics, but to me, "matching up" has a connotation of personal responsibility. Matchup M2M means something more than just keeping a hand up when a guy is in your designated area.

• The whole idea that our players can't play defense in the NBA is pure BS.
- Can't and Don't are separate matters. And often the IDEA of something is as important as the empirical reality when decisions are made by people who don't have our glasses on. We just don't have standout defenders in the NBA. We haven't, really. Since when? DC? Yes, a lot of NBA "defense" is by reputation, but it's kinda silly to suggest there's 'no defense in the NBA.' Else, why are a lot of excellent college scorers unable to show the same proficiency in the pros? We are talking about the best of the best college scorers making it to the NBA, and it's hard to stop that kind of a collection of talent. Yet, you look at the best NBA teams and you do see more than a few excellent defenders. Warriors has iguodala and green and Thompson... Scoring on any of them is WORK. No college team has that.

Even the guys we have had who are supposed to be good defenders (relatively) recently —Wes, and then going back to hart because he was just cited — they weren't really good NBA defenders. They're quick and play the finesse defense game, which might pull some steals stats in the 'team D' game, but that's not how you stop individuals.

As much as we love our teams, try to look at things from an outsider's perspective. We are the one team in the field that plays exclusively zone. The NBA is almost exclusively man. For a gm, that's a leap of faith, like picking a wing T quarterback to run the west coast. Sure, he CAN do it, but you gotta 'project' and projecting 'extra' stuff isn't good for careers. Fortunately, it's basketball, so a player can demonstrate attributes that show he can translate into the NBA, but the fact that our pro prospects don't play man IS noted by scouts and in reports. Maybe that's sometimes negated by a player's physical attributes or even HS game tapes — who knows. Dion, for example - can't imagine anyone would suggest he didn't have the ability to play m2m defense. But then there's the hidden question. If M2m defense is about desire, then does it say something about a player who chooses to go to the one school that plays zone?
 
If Lydon is willing to come off the bench, who cares? There might be as many as four players who were promised starting roles to get them through the door: Coleman, Battle, Gillon and White. If that's the case, the decision is between Lydon and Roberson. I'm sure Lydon knows he'll be in there when it matters most.
It doesn't make any difference. It's all about being right and scoring some weird internet point.

As if Lydon starting is the difference between 38 and 6 mpg.
I think it makes a lot of difference. You want to begin each and every game with your potential All-American on the bench while two offensive-challenged players man the paint and three newcomers who have never put on a Cuse jersey before this year make up the rest? For what?
 
Isn't Chandler Parsons considered a SF? That's who I see Lydon compared to the most.

That's racist! haha

But yeah, Parsons is a pretty good comparison. Mike Dunleavy is perhaps even more spot on, and he's been a SF his whole career.
 
I think it makes a lot of difference. You want to begin each and every game with your potential All-American on the bench while two offensive-challenged players man the paint and three newcomers who have never put on a Cuse jersey before this year make up the rest? For what?

It's not like there isn't some precedent for NBA caliber talented getting big minutes off the bench.
 
I think it makes a lot of difference. You want to begin each and every game with your potential All-American on the bench while two offensive-challenged players man the paint and three newcomers who have never put on a Cuse jersey before this year make up the rest? For what?

This is where I just cannot wrap my brain around it either. I get starting Coleman or Roberson or Chukwu but starting 2 of those 3 over Lydon who could essentially start at any of the 3 front court positions while being light years ahead of the others on offense and still being a good rebounder and defender just boggles the mind. Defense is important in basketball but great offense will trump great defense 95% of the time and basketball is a sport that is about putting the ball in the basket more than anything else.
 
haha cuz Boeheim doesn't have much of a history benching seniors who started and put up solid numbers (9 and 9) the year before.
It certainly hasn't happened often (Josh Wright, Billy Celuck in recent times). But how often has he been faced with a (potential) situation such as this?
 
This is true. Still Dion wasn't sitting behind two guys who made the offense easier to defend against.

TBH I don't really care who starts if we're winning. It was more a comment about how people get so entrenched with their personal starting lineup. I thought it was silly when it was team Billy vs team Gerry and I still think so.
 
Totally agree. I wouldn't underestimate what another outside shooter would do to improve the team's potential. I'm confident that Gillon will be in the three point range of his first two years in college but other than that, we have Lydon and really an unknown in Battle.

Agreed, I think this is the whole key right here---although we have 9 good players already (albeit a couple with zero experience) we desperately need another shooter after losing nearly 85% of our 3 point production. And I don't think you can automatically assume Gillon will magically revert back to the higher percentages of his first 2 years either (those first 2 years he averaged only 90 attempts, half of his junior year so a much smaller sample size). And speaking of sample sizes, Lydon only made 49 of them last season (nearly 100 less attempts than White). So from a weighted average perspective, Lydon's good percentage won't help us as much as the other 3 will impact us. Thus, until Battle or Gillon proves they can shoot higher than 33-34%, we desperately need White's 41% sharp-shooting on the court.
 
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I did disagree with every statement in the post to which I was responding:
• In many ways, playing our 2-3 zone forces our players to have better conditioning and reflexes.
- I thought it was the opposite. Zone saves legs. I've never heard anyone ever suggest that zone defenders run as much as man defenders. Ever. Reflexes? That's not even logical.

Logic has nothing to do with it. But saying it's not logical makes you sound smarter than you are. Reflexes has to do with making steals. A player has to quickly react to a ball traveling through one of the passing lanes often on his periphery vision or at odd angles.

Zone saves legs if we are talking CYO basketball. But if you ever watch Brandon Triche moving on the top of the zone to defend against a 3-point shooter just receiving a pass it takes a HUGE amount of energy to do it right. The way Syracuse plays 2-3 zone is not about saving legs. If you think it saves energy then we will just have to agree you and I have very different opinions on this subject.
 
TBH I don't really care who starts if we're winning. It was more a comment about how people get so entrenched with their personal starting lineup. I thought it was silly when it was team Billy vs team Gerry and I still think so.

Fair enough. My reason for thinking Lydon has to start is all about offense and getting off to a good start in games so basically winning. Obviously this team is going to take some time on defense with all the new pieces but I am really tired of seeing our squads that are handcuffed offensively the last couple of seasons. That is one of the reasons I'm excited about this team's possibilities offensively.
 
Agreed, I think this is the whole key right here---although we have 9 good players already (albeit a couple with zero experience) we desperately need another shooter after losing nearly 85% of our 3 point production. And I don't think you can automatically assume Gillon will magically revert back to the higher percentages of his first 2 years either (those first 2 years he averaged only 90 attempts, half of his junior year so a much smaller sample size). And speaking of sample sizes, Lydon only made 49 of them last season (nearly 100 less attempts than White). So from a weighted average perspective, Lydon's good percentage won't help us as much as the other 3 will impact us. Thus, until Battle or Gillon proves they can shoot higher than 33-34%, we desperately need White's 41% sharp-shooting on the court.

Excellent post. You're totally right about Gillon and the sample size but similar to RF, I just have a really good feeling about his prospects for this year. My feelings have been wrong before many times, but hopefully not this time!
 
Logic has nothing to do with it. But saying it's not logical makes you sound smarter than you are. Reflexes has to do with making steals. A player has to quickly react to a ball traveling through one of the passing lanes often on his periphery vision or at odd angles.

Zone saves legs if we are talking CYO basketball. But if you ever watch Brandon Triche moving on the top of the zone to defend against a 3-point shooter just receiving a pass it takes a HUGE amount of energy to do it right. The way Syracuse plays 2-3 zone is not about saving legs. If you think it saves energy then we will just have to agree you and I have very different opinions on this subject.

I think when playing zone, you often have to be attuned to more things at once -- although good man defense requires the same level. I'm not sure that playing zone saves or doesn't save legs. My general sense is that it's probably a little easier on your legs and wind because you don't have to chase Trevor Cooney all over the floor. But frankly I don't think Boeheim cares at all about that. I think it's more likely he plays zone because your players face forward and can run easier off of turnovers, and the zone creates a lot of those. He also just flat out thinks its the best defense at keeping your opponent from scoring.
 
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