Class of 2016 SG/SF Andrew White (VA; Grad Transfer from Nebraska)

[Yegorange]

Who knows, and who knows if that will properly motivate TR. I hope that whether he starts or not, he will understand how important he is, and what he brings to the team when he is playing like the beast.

Absolutely. But I'm sure it's not a question of sainthood for either. Robie probably would also be a team player, if asked be the 6th man. My read is JB has already decided that TL fits better there and that TL was fine with it. So the offer to AW is the 3 - possibly with some 2 mins. Of course it's all moot for now, since he's avoiding coaches as of yesterday according to a few reports.

 

[Dave85]

I believe in everything O13 has been saying and hinting at with AW3. If he does not turn Orange I will still be very thankful to O13 for his contributions to this thread. That's all I have to say. At least for a minute or two.

 

[orangenirvana]

No clue who starts but if Dion Waiters was good with coming off the bench I'm sure Lydon will be good with coming off the bench, not saying that's the case but let's just say Lydon is a hell of a lot more humble than Dion ever was.

Dion was All BE. I like what the other poster said about bringing him in early and creating and instant mismatch. Depending on how the other team is playing would dictate who comes out. If White can play the front and back of the zone, it will be unfair for other teams.

I think we need to end the Waiters comparison.

No one considered Waiters to be the best player on the team going into the 2011-12 season. No one called Waiters the 9th best player in college basketball going into the season. Waiters nearly transferred the summer before that season. Waiters had two players (a fifth-year senior and returning starter) ahead of him going into that season and not just a senior who Boeheim once said "If I had anyone else, he wouldn't play."

It's a bad comparison imo.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think we need to end the Waiters comparison.

No one considered Waiters to be the best player on the team going into the 2011-12 season. No one called Waiters the 9th best player in college basketball going into the season. Waiters nearly transferred the summer before that season. Waiters had two players (a fifth-year senior and returning starter) ahead of him going into that season and not just a senior who Boeheim once said "If I had anyone else, he wouldn't play."

It's a bad comparison imo.

I agree.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

I agree with your sentiment about not getting worked up 100%.

Not so much with your assessment that "this roster is fine the way it is," or that adding White would be "all gravy." In fact, I couldn't disagree more.

White is the difference between this being a borderline top 25 team versus being a legit top 10 or top 5 caliber team, from wire to wire. He's the difference between being a legit title contender and #1 seed versus a team that might have to claw their way to the NCAA tournament. It could be the difference between JB chasing a second title before his rapidly dwindling career ends versus him going out on a far less positive note.

Not trying to be dramatic about this, but to the extent that those thing are important to us as SU fans, that's how important landing White is.

Obviously he helps big time. I agree with that. And probably everything you said except I do believe we are a top 15 team without White. We added a 7'2 monster defensively(all we needed last year and made the FF), something we lacked big time. Frank has gotten a lot better and will shine if he has a bigger role, Lydon is primed for a huge year, senior Roberson, Gillon is a do it all guard offensively (can penetrate and dish something we've lacked, as well as being able to shoot and finish), Tyus Battle is going to be a stud, senior DC, frontline depth with TT. People underestimate this roster big time without AW3. I love our roster the way it stands currently. We do need shooting and obviously AW3 would help immensely with that and we would be a top 5 team then.

 

[Newhouser]

If we don't rebound from the 5 position - we are going to see a lot of White, Roberson and Lydon on the court at the same time.

 

[EastCoast2]

I think we need to end the Waiters comparison.

No one considered Waiters to be the best player on the team going into the 2011-12 season. No one called Waiters the 9th best player in college basketball going into the season. Waiters nearly transferred the summer before that season. Waiters had two players (a fifth-year senior and returning starter) ahead of him going into that season and not just a senior who Boeheim once said "If I had anyone else, he wouldn't play."

It's a bad comparison imo.

Not to mention a McD AA behind him who wouldn't play at all. That team was stacked.

 

[orangenirvana]

Please don't put words in people's mouths. I have never heard anyone say Roberson has a bad attitude. I've heard at times he was not putting in his best effort. I have heard he is a shy kid. But I've never heard he is not a team player.

btw, Lydon is an Orange saint.

People are using the logic that Lydon can come off the bench because he has a great attitude and is a "team player." Yet they don't say the same about Roberson. What other implication is there? If he's a shy kid (I agree) then why wouldn't coming off the bench be advantageous to him?

 

[Rage4CUSE]

Obviously he helps big time. I agree with that. And probably everything you said except I do believe we are a top 15 team without White. We added a 7'2 monster defensively(all we needed last year and made the FF), something we lacked big time. Frank has gotten a lot better and will shine if he has a bigger role, Lydon is primed for a huge year, senior Roberson, Gillon is a do it all guard offensively (can penetrate and dish something we've lacked, as well as being able to shoot and finish), Tyus Battle is going to be a stud, senior DC, frontline depth with TT. People underestimate this roster big time without AW3. I love our roster the way it stands currently. We do need shooting and obviously AW3 would help immensely with that and we would be a top 5 team then.

I think you're forgetting about all the offense we lost from last year. Something like 30-35 points a game between Cooney, Gbinijie and Richardson.

We have to hope that Battle, Gullion and possibly White can make up those lost points.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think you're forgetting about all the offense we lost from last year. Something like 30-35 points a game between Cooney, Gbinijie and Richardson.

We have to hope that Battle, Gullion and possibly White can make up those lost points.

Lydon will produce more and we expect 2 out of those three to be a lot more efficient than Cooney and Richardson.

 

[Rage4CUSE]

Lydon will produce more and we expect 2 out of those three to be a lot more efficient than Cooney and Richardson.

Expectations and reality are two very different things.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Expectations and reality are two very different things.

It's very much reality. This team will be more talented than last year.

 

[CuseMan4]

I think we need to end the Waiters comparison.

No one considered Waiters to be the best player on the team going into the 2011-12 season. No one called Waiters the 9th best player in college basketball going into the season. Waiters nearly transferred the summer before that season. Waiters had two players (a fifth-year senior and returning starter) ahead of him going into that season and not just a senior who Boeheim once said "If I had anyone else, he wouldn't play."

It's a bad comparison imo.

Oh not comparing him basketball wise I'm talking personality wise, Dion has not been shy talking about how good he thinks he is, if Boeheim can get a player like that to come off the bench I'm just saying I don't think he will have a problem talking Lydon to come off the bench if that's the case. Lydon is not so much caught up in himself as Dion was.

 

[jr4750]

I think you're forgetting about all the offense we lost from last year. Something like 30-35 points a game between Cooney, Gbinijie and Richardson.

We have to hope that Battle, Gullion and possibly White can make up those lost points.

Absolutely, but in addition to those three, I believe DC, TRob and of course TL will score more points. I think DC will have a solid year and be a low post presence when given the opportunity.

 

[jordoo]

Dion was All BE. I like what the other poster said about bringing him in early and creating and instant mismatch. Depending on how the other team is playing would dictate who comes out. If White can play the front and back of the zone, it will be unfair for other teams.

The problem with this reasoning is two fold. First Dion wasn't playing behind guys who bogged the offense down because they were easy to defend and only needed to be defended right around the basket. Second Lydon creates the same mismatches as a starter as he does coming off the bench so essentially you are admitting that the other options do not do this because of their lack offensive skills.

It seems people quickly forget that Roberson was a starter due to attrition as a sophomore. Then last year we played a guard at one forward spot and our best forward had to play the center position out of need, for a majority of his minutes. JB was unhappy with Roberson's effort and production for a good portion of conference play. If we had a Moyer or Thompson on the bench last year you can bet they would have started taking his minutes. We didn't have any other options. Yes Roberson finished strong and had a great NCAAT but he was a starter more or less because we had no other options the last couple of seasons.

I love Roberson when he plays all out. I think he will be a key cog on this years team. He is a liability on offense in the half court until he proves otherwise. He is an energy guy who can really crash the glass and run the floor while being solid defensively. We have needed an offensive spark off the bench lately because we have been deficient offensively as a starting unit. If you start Lydon then you come in with Roberson/Howard as a change of pace/energy group like we did with Scoop/Kris back in the day.

 

[jordoo]

I disagree, I think it will be like 09-10 and we won't have two guys leading the league in minutes played like last year, well like most years.

I agree that weather he starts of comes off the bench Roberson will not be the odd man out. He will play a lot and you are likely correct that no one will be averaging 37min a game as it will be more spread out between 8 guys.

 

[orangenirvana]

Oh not comparing him basketball wise I'm talking personality wise, Dion has not been shy talking about how good he thinks he is, if Boeheim can get a player like that to come off the bench I'm just saying I don't think he will have a problem talking Lydon Roberson to come off the bench if that's the case. Lydon Roberson is not so much caught up in himself as Dion was.

Fixed

 

[jordoo]

Seems they rather think TL brings much more versatility and firepower off the bench than Robie. And that point is hard to argue.

Yes but he brings that as a starter as well which is sort of where that reasoning falls apart IMO.

 

[jordoo]

So starting TR eliminates the 1st concern and we demoralize then roll!

So we have to start someone because they have problems being motivated. Isn't that rewarding a deficiency? Didn't Roberson play more aggressive and motivated after the stretch where JB called him out and had been limiting his minutes.

 

[Dave85]

I agree that weather he starts of comes off the bench Roberson will not be the odd man out. He will play a lot and you are likely correct that no one will be averaging 37min a game as it will be more spread out between 8 guys.

Having more guys allows our team to be more aggressive on defense. I am really looking forward to how well Gillon can drive to the lane and draw fouls. He had pretty good stats in that department. Being able to get other teams into foul trouble is a HUGE weapon.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Team Lydon making a strong case this morning!

 

[RF2044]

Team Lydon making a strong case this morning!

None of which will have any impact on how the starters are determined and what the minutes distribution will be once the season starts.

Everybody's got a cockamamie theory. What a great problem to have*--can't wait to see these guys duke it out in preseason practice!

And I really can't wait until White pulls the trigger one way or the other to end this pointless, endless cycle of speculation.



*Assuming White comes here

 

[jordoo]

None of which will have any impact on how the starters are determined and what the minutes distribution will be once the season starts.

Everybody's got a cockamamie theory. What a great problem to have*--can't wait to see these guys duke it out in preseason practice!

And I really can't wait until White pulls the trigger one way or the other to end this pointless, endless cycle of speculation.



*Assuming White comes here

This is certainly true and I can reason all I want why I think Lydon should start. Of course that has no effect on whether or not he does start. I will say that I'll be disappointed if he doesn't start but I'll still be excited about the team.

 

[Yegorange]

Yes but he brings that as a starter as well which is sort of where that reasoning falls apart IMO.

Don't believe it's a question of motivation. TL can sub in for 3-5, TR - 4 only = Versatility. With Gillon, Battle, AW, DC/PC there'll be enough offense to start off. Then you bring in TL where you need him. That would give JB serious strategic advantage to be able to read and react accordingly.

 

[kcsu]

Don't believe it's a question of motivation. TL can sub in for 3-5, TR - 4 only = Versatility. With Gillon, Battle, AW, DC/PC there'll be enough offense to start off. Then you bring in TL where you need him. That would give JB serious strategic advantage to be able to read and react accordingly.

Good post. This is spot on. If possible you want a multi dimensional player as your 6th.

TL can play 3 4 5.