Shafer can coach D

[saltine44]

I don’t follow. What is this a reference to? Thanks.

FSU backs were playing hangman on the sideline during the game. They weren’t white-boarding schemes or plays with coaches. They were literally playing hangman on their whiteboards.

 

[orange79]

Sigh. I'll do it again, With the 'cute formatting' you love so much.

I'm on s phone, so I can't do the cute formatting...
1) who could he have hired that was worth anything that wouldn't be getting a promotion (McF) or that he didn't have a personal connection to? And, for the record, I remember zero complaints on this forum about the McF hire. In fact, most people were calling it a great hire due to his recruiting prowess.

1) It doesn't matter. You unequivocally stated he could only hire friends or people he knew. You don't get the benefit of the doubt this time. Wrong.

2) You've clearly never led an organization. You can't fire people that just did you a huge favor (i.e. leaving a stable job to work for you) after they hit their KPIs (won a bowl game). Doing so annihilates morale, and it ensures that nobody good will ever work for you. Why would they? That's management 101. Relationships matter in the real world.

You would be wrong. You do what is best for the organization. No matter how painful it is. A very famous Vulcan once said (will say?) "...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few..." You try to help the impacted parties. But if you favor a few over the entire organization, it never ends well if it's not working out in the first place. Prune the tree when necessary. Maybe they didn't cover that until the upper-level Management courses.

3) There were public talks about his job status w/ the writing clearly on the wall before he was formally fired.

And yet, he wasn't relieved of his duties until there was one game left in the season. Not halfway through.

4) Yes, because great coaches often leave stable jobs to make lateral moves (at best) to jump into tumultuous situations... name one time when that's happened.

I don't even know what this is referring to, but here goes. I have no time to try to prove your statement, but do you really think any coach at any position never ("name one time that happened") moved from, say, a MAC school to the same position in a P5 school? Really?

5) and as stated in an earlier response, it was "disproved" by someone who doesn't believe in pace adjusting, and who can't grasp the concept that pace is a lever, and efficiency is what wins games.

Again, you're moving the goalposts. Actually, you're good at that. Congrats. You said nothing about 'pace', which I find specious in this argument anyway. In terms of what you wrote in the OP, you were wrong.

6) ~2.5 seasons in the ACC w/ a MAC-level coaching staff is a joke. If you don't think so, then you're drinking too much kool-Aid. That's like saying Dino has yet to knock off FSU, and he has a losing record against BC, Pitt, Wake, and NCSU, so he should be fired.

I'm really struggling here with the point you are trying to make. Neither Shafer or HCDB has had 2 and a half seasons in the ACC. The goalposts were moved so far in this one, we can't even see them anymore.

7) You are dramatically understating the importance of assistant coaches, and the restrictions that SS had on hiring quality assistants.

I am underestimating nothing. You need good assistants. No-brainer.

Along with the deteriorating record and recruiting, there were obviously things the administration saw that told them Shafer was not the answer. I agree with them. You don't. Fine.

This Shafer love is somewhat puzzling to me (the Marrone stuff, too). He's been gone for over 2 years.

OK, I'm done here. Knock yourself out.

 

[CousCuse]

Scott Shafer is the coach in waiting at MTSU. MtSU is the largest university in the state of Tennessee and is in the Nashville metroplex, which is the fastest growing major urban area in the U.S. I think the politicos there want to position MTSU as a major sports program and as a P5 expansion candidate, possibly to the ACC.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Scott Shafer is the coach in waiting at MTSU. MtSU is the largest university in the state of Tennessee and is in the Nashville metroplex, which is the fastest growing major urban area in the U.S. I think the politicos there want to position MTSU as a major sports program and as a P5 expansion candidate, possibly to the ACC.

They’ve been in talks with UMASS for a joint application to the highest P5 bidder.

 

[CousCuse]

They’ve been in talks with UMASS for a joint application to the highest P5 bidder.

That's my expansion plan for the ACC. Secure the northeast from the B1G with UMASS and make a bridgehead into the SEC zone with MTSU. All the southern teams would love trips to Nashville.

 

[MSOrange]

That's my expansion plan for the ACC. Secure the northeast from the B1G with UMASS and make a bridgehead into the SEC zone with MTSU. All the southern teams would love trips to Nashville.

MTSU to the ACC! That's fantastic. Don't ever change Cous!

 

[CousCuse]

MTSU to the ACC! That's fantastic. Don't ever change Cous!

Nashville is the soul of the south. It is so happening.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Love a good read in the morning.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Sigh. I'll do it again, With the 'cute formatting' you love so much.

I'm on s phone, so I can't do the cute formatting...
1) who could he have hired that was worth anything that wouldn't be getting a promotion (McF) or that he didn't have a personal connection to? And, for the record, I remember zero complaints on this forum about the McF hire. In fact, most people were calling it a great hire due to his recruiting prowess.

1) It doesn't matter. You unequivocally stated he could only hire friends or people he knew. You don't get the benefit of the doubt this time. Wrong.

2) You've clearly never led an organization. You can't fire people that just did you a huge favor (i.e. leaving a stable job to work for you) after they hit their KPIs (won a bowl game). Doing so annihilates morale, and it ensures that nobody good will ever work for you. Why would they? That's management 101. Relationships matter in the real world.

You would be wrong. You do what is best for the organization. No matter how painful it is. A very famous Vulcan once said (will say?) "...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few..." You try to help the impacted parties. But if you favor a few over the entire organization, it never ends well if it's not working out in the first place. Prune the tree when necessary. Maybe they didn't cover that until the upper-level Management courses.

3) There were public talks about his job status w/ the writing clearly on the wall before he was formally fired.

And yet, he wasn't relieved of his duties until there was one game left in the season. Not halfway through.

4) Yes, because great coaches often leave stable jobs to make lateral moves (at best) to jump into tumultuous situations... name one time when that's happened.

I don't even know what this is referring to, but here goes. I have no time to try to prove your statement, but do you really think any coach at any position never ("name one time that happened") moved from, say, a MAC school to the same position in a P5 school? Really?

5) and as stated in an earlier response, it was "disproved" by someone who doesn't believe in pace adjusting, and who can't grasp the concept that pace is a lever, and efficiency is what wins games.

Again, you're moving the goalposts. Actually, you're good at that. Congrats. You said nothing about 'pace', which I find specious in this argument anyway. In terms of what you wrote in the OP, you were wrong.

6) ~2.5 seasons in the ACC w/ a MAC-level coaching staff is a joke. If you don't think so, then you're drinking too much kool-Aid. That's like saying Dino has yet to knock off FSU, and he has a losing record against BC, Pitt, Wake, and NCSU, so he should be fired.

I'm really struggling here with the point you are trying to make. Neither Shafer or HCDB has had 2 and a half seasons in the ACC. The goalposts were moved so far in this one, we can't even see them anymore.

7) You are dramatically understating the importance of assistant coaches, and the restrictions that SS had on hiring quality assistants.

I am underestimating nothing. You need good assistants. No-brainer.

Along with the deteriorating record and recruiting, there were obviously things the administration saw that told them Shafer was not the answer. I agree with them. You don't. Fine.

This Shafer love is somewhat puzzling to me (the Marrone stuff, too). He's been gone for over 2 years.
View attachment 117588

OK, I'm done here. Knock yourself out.

My experience reading this board is that very few people here are happy unless they have the last word on an issue. That is one reason why some posters coordinate their posts and flood certain threads while also creating numerous related threads 18 to 20 hours a day. If you really let this go at this point I’ll be really impressed.

 

[Fjoinkay]

They’ve been in talks with UMASS for a joint application to the highest P5 bidder.

UMASS almost beat Mississippi State at MS in November, and UMASS had a really bad team this year. That’s all I know about UMASS. I’m not sure what that says about MS this season, but I think they were probably overrated.

Coach Stickstill isn’t going anywhere. He is MTSU football. And just like Marrone here Stockstill hired a very good coach to be his DC.

 

[TheCusian]

Scott Shafer is the coach in waiting at MTSU. MtSU is the largest university in the state of Tennessee and is in the Nashville metroplex, which is the fastest growing major urban area in the U.S. I think the politicos there want to position MTSU as a major sports program and as a P5 expansion candidate, possibly to the ACC.

This is *gold*

 

[TheCusian]

Sigh. I'll do it again, With the 'cute formatting' you love so much.

I'm on s phone, so I can't do the cute formatting...
1) who could he have hired that was worth anything that wouldn't be getting a promotion (McF) or that he didn't have a personal connection to? And, for the record, I remember zero complaints on this forum about the McF hire. In fact, most people were calling it a great hire due to his recruiting prowess.

1) It doesn't matter. You unequivocally stated he could only hire friends or people he knew. You don't get the benefit of the doubt this time. Wrong.

2) You've clearly never led an organization. You can't fire people that just did you a huge favor (i.e. leaving a stable job to work for you) after they hit their KPIs (won a bowl game). Doing so annihilates morale, and it ensures that nobody good will ever work for you. Why would they? That's management 101. Relationships matter in the real world.

You would be wrong. You do what is best for the organization. No matter how painful it is. A very famous Vulcan once said (will say?) "...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few..." You try to help the impacted parties. But if you favor a few over the entire organization, it never ends well if it's not working out in the first place. Prune the tree when necessary. Maybe they didn't cover that until the upper-level Management courses.

3) There were public talks about his job status w/ the writing clearly on the wall before he was formally fired.

And yet, he wasn't relieved of his duties until there was one game left in the season. Not halfway through.

4) Yes, because great coaches often leave stable jobs to make lateral moves (at best) to jump into tumultuous situations... name one time when that's happened.

I don't even know what this is referring to, but here goes. I have no time to try to prove your statement, but do you really think any coach at any position never ("name one time that happened") moved from, say, a MAC school to the same position in a P5 school? Really?

5) and as stated in an earlier response, it was "disproved" by someone who doesn't believe in pace adjusting, and who can't grasp the concept that pace is a lever, and efficiency is what wins games.

Again, you're moving the goalposts. Actually, you're good at that. Congrats. You said nothing about 'pace', which I find specious in this argument anyway. In terms of what you wrote in the OP, you were wrong.

6) ~2.5 seasons in the ACC w/ a MAC-level coaching staff is a joke. If you don't think so, then you're drinking too much kool-Aid. That's like saying Dino has yet to knock off FSU, and he has a losing record against BC, Pitt, Wake, and NCSU, so he should be fired.

I'm really struggling here with the point you are trying to make. Neither Shafer or HCDB has had 2 and a half seasons in the ACC. The goalposts were moved so far in this one, we can't even see them anymore.

7) You are dramatically understating the importance of assistant coaches, and the restrictions that SS had on hiring quality assistants.

I am underestimating nothing. You need good assistants. No-brainer.

Along with the deteriorating record and recruiting, there were obviously things the administration saw that told them Shafer was not the answer. I agree with them. You don't. Fine.

This Shafer love is somewhat puzzling to me (the Marrone stuff, too). He's been gone for over 2 years.
View attachment 117588

OK, I'm done here. Knock yourself out.

And for what’s it worth, DB is .500 vs BC and Pitt

 

[Crusty]

FHCSS is a really decent human being. He is a superb defensive coach. While he did inherit a pretty bare cupboard (for the ACC) and suffered through terrible luck with injuries with a squad with no depth, he made some unfortunate staffing decisions that sealed his fate.

I wish him nothing but the best and hope he gets another shot somewhere like the MAC.

Every time I see Geno Smith I see visions of the Pinstrip Bowl. Thanks for those memories coach.

 

[orange79]

My experience reading this board is that very few people here are happy unless they have the last word on an issue. That is one reason why some posters coordinate their posts and flood certain threads while also creating numerous related threads 18 to 20 hours a day. If you really let this go at this point I’ll be really impressed.

Prepare to be impressed.

 

[bcubs9497]

This is *gold*

Don't laugh. There has been talk of MTSU moving up for a while. I personally don't think they'd join the ACC. Just talk, for now, though.

And, he's correct; MTSU has the largest number of enrolled students in the state of Tennessee. 25K or so.

 

[NKR1978]

Scott Shafer is the coach in waiting at MTSU. MtSU is the largest university in the state of Tennessee and is in the Nashville metroplex, which is the fastest growing major urban area in the U.S. I think the politicos there want to position MTSU as a major sports program and as a P5 expansion candidate, possibly to the ACC.

MTSU will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever get a sniff from the ACC.

 

[Moontan]

MTSU is the has the largest undergraduate enrollment in Tennessee. Overall, UT still rules. See the following link:

Largest schools in Tennessee.

Big Math might be a more likely P-5 destination for MTSU. Heck, they might as well go big and add Memphis, UMass & Yukon.

 

[CousCuse]

Don't laugh. There has been talk of MTSU moving up for a while. I personally don't think they'd join the ACC. Just talk, for now, though.

And, he's correct; MTSU has the largest number of enrolled students in the state of Tennessee. 25K or so.

MTSU would decline an invite to the ACC? How many fans from Tallahassee or Louisvile or Clemson or Charlotte or Va would take a weekend trip to Nashville if their team was playing there? A lot, enough to probably have the big games in Nissan stadium. The hoops team is P5 caliber already.

 

[Fjoinkay]

FSU backs were playing hangman on the sideline during the game. They weren’t white-boarding schemes or plays with coaches. They were literally playing hangman on their whiteboards.

Thanks for clearing that up. Are you saying that those FSU backs were playing games on their whiteboards throughout the entire game?

 

[TheCusian]

MTSU would decline an invite to the ACC? How many fans from Tallahassee or Louisvile or Clemson or Charlotte or Va would take a weekend trip to Nashville if their team was playing there? A lot, enough to probably have the big games in Nissan stadium. The hoops team is P5 caliber already.

No conference is expanding to include them in the next 10 years. They won't get an invite.

 

[CousCuse]

No conference is expanding to include them in the next 10 years. They won't get an invite.

I've never been to MTSU or Nashville, but I know that that area has a lot of big companies(Nissan) and big time power players and they are football fanatics. I would rather have them than WVU, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that opinion. I find it puzzling that SS is the DC there.

 

[Alsacs]

 

[Alsacs]

MTSU would decline an invite to the ACC? How many fans from Tallahassee or Louisvile or Clemson or Charlotte or Va would take a weekend trip to Nashville if their team was playing there? A lot, enough to probably have the big games in Nissan stadium. The hoops team is P5 caliber already.

You don’t get the point of expansion.
It’s about $$$.
Middle Tennessee brings no $$$$ to any conference.
The XFL will become more popular than the NFL before Middle Tennessee becomes the member of a current P5 conference.
No chance in hell they join the ACC.

 

[CousCuse]

You don’t get the point of expansion.
It’s about $$$.
Middle Tennessee brings no $$$$ to any conference.
The XFL will become more popular than the NFL before Middle Tennessee becomes the member of a current P5 conference.
No chance in hell they join the ACC.

The amount of money they are worth is directly proportional to the media market they are in. Nashville is the fastest growing major city in the entire USA with upwards of 3 million people.

 

[Alsacs]

The amount of money they are worth is directly proportional to the media market they are in. Nashville is the fastest growing major city in the entire USA with upwards of 3 million people.

Georgia State to the ACC.
Gotta own that Atlanta market.

Or Temple to the ACC they own that Philadelphia market.

Media market doesn’t mean anything when you aren’t the top dog in your area. You know this stuff cmon man.
Also Middle Tennessee isn’t even in Nashville like Vanderbilt is and Tennessee owns that area.

Adding Middle Tennessee would be like the ACC adding Manhattan College basketball program to own NYC market.