Shafer

[blizz]

Good point. Our OL is even worse than our WRs. Last year we at least had two guys who could get behind the defense and catch it and take it to the house(Etta Tawo and Estime). This year we appear to have zero guys that can do that. But at least we do have two adequate possession receivers. That's more than we have on the OL. But not more than what MTSU had at WR.

You're putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

 

[OrangeDW]

You have to have coaches in place for more than 3 or 4 years for the recruiting pipeline to want to send guys there.

I'm sure that helps, but Babers got the best QB and OL recruits that I can remember us getting, based on ratings. Takes a few years for those guys to get here and get on the field. Looking forward to it.

 

[djorange1989]

How many players has Middle Tennesee had drafted? Ever?

Bet their current QB and WR get drafted. Bet ours don't

 

[OrangeDW]

You're putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

Who cares? None of them are good.

 

[CousCuse]

I'm sure that helps, but Babers got the best QB and OL recruits that I can remember us getting, based on ratings. Takes a few years for those guys to get here and get on the field. Looking forward to it.

Mike London recruited great at Virginia but couldn't coach at the ACC level. Dino had success at ECU and BGU, so will will see what he can do at SU.

 

[Alsacs]

How many players has Middle Tennesee had drafted? Ever?

They had a player taken in the 3rd round in the 2016 draft.

We haven't a player taken in the first 3 rounds since Jay Bromley.

 

[Alsacs]

You have to have coaches in place for more than 3 or 4 years for the recruiting pipeline to want to send guys there.

Shafer wasn't a new HC he was a continuation of Marrone.
He was in year 7 not year 3 when he was gone.

 

[NKR1978]

Do you think it was a strategy move for Shafer to chat with the guys before the game? Maybe I'm reading too much into it. At first I half thought "well, ain't that sweet" but after the game, the cigar, and his comments post game I'm starting to think he was using as a mind-fudge.

Either way, what grinds me most is that he still had fans sticking up for him as a person before the game. There seemed to be a consensus of respect on this board for his return... then he showed his true colors and spat on us. For the record, I was pretty upset when he was fired (emotional reasons only, he was my first CFB coach and intro to SU). Now I wish he would have tripped down the stairs on his way out...

I think it was. And looking back I wish Dino told the kids to wait until after the game for hugs. Shafer, the great father figure, knows kids are emotional and sentimental. He used that against us.

 

[TheCusian]

You have to have coaches in place for more than 3 or 4 years for the recruiting pipeline to want to send guys there.

Yeah, our classes weren't trending up fast enough under SS to see the results you'd want

 

[TheCusian]

Mike London recruited great at Virginia but couldn't coach at the ACC level. Dino had success at ECU and BGU, so will will see what he can do at SU.

He's already passed Shafer.

 

[CousCuse]

Shafer wasn't a new HC he was a continuation of Marrone.
He was in year 7 not year 3 when he was gone.

You can spin man it any way you want. The recruiting people didn't look at it like that. They looked at Saint Doug as an NFL coach who was a proven talent developer and at SS as a first time guy who got his position by default and were wanting to see what he could do before they would send him the A list guts. He did win a bowl, but that didn't keep the know it alls from attacking him starting year 2.

 

[CousCuse]

Yeah, our classes weren't trending up fast enough under SS to see the results you'd want

Hard to recruit when people are calling for your firing the year after you win a bowl.

 

[Alsacs]

You can spin man it any way you want. The recruiting people didn't look at it like that. They looked at Saint Doug as an NFL coach who was a proven talent developer and at SS as a first time guy who got his position by default and were wanting to see what he could do before they would send him the A list guts. He did win a bowl, but that didn't keep the know it alls from attacking him starting year 2.

I am going to say this one last time.
Scott Shafer won the lottery. No school was going to give him an HC job when Syracuse under Dr. Gross went for a cheap continuation hire.

Shafer wasn't hired to start a rebuild. He was hired to continue being mediocre. He went backwards,
He got millions of dollars and was sent away before we became fully GRob again.

He was an embrassment low rent coach against ACC coaches.

We got what we paid for from Shafer. His 3 years set the program back 5 years.

Our best player last year was a grad transfer that Dino brought in. That is an indictment on Shafer.

Scott Shafer could be the best human on the planet earth for all I care his hiring was a gigantic mistake.

 

[TheCusian]

Hard to recruit when people are calling for your firing the year after you win a bowl.

To be fair, the offense was craptastic and his hand picked OC was a human cluster****

 

[CuseGrad94]

You have to have coaches in place for more than 3 or 4 years for the recruiting pipeline to want to send guys there.

100% this. IMO a program like Cuse needs stability to SUcceed. Its going to be harder before it gets easier. We cant continue to have a revolving door in the HC position. He needs to build pipelines and gain trust for a P5 type of players to Cuse. In a PERFECT scenario I think Cuse needs to re-shirt all lineman on both sides of that ball unless they are absolutely special. Cuse doesnt get lineman that are ready to play right away. Those folks go to FSU, BAMA, and Clemson etc. I think you get to the point where its optimal that you dont start any line man until their 3rd year (Redshirt Soph)3 years into the program they are they are built and conditioned to compete at P5 level. As everyone knows both lines are getting pushed around by "inferior" competition, by the third year this wont happen as much. When you have a head coach in position for 5 years you are getting the type of lineman that fits your system and you can start building that depth. When you go from P's system, to GROB's west coast system, to Marrone's system, to Shafer, and now an entirely new lineman in Babers you get 49-76 since 2007. I like Dino's system in the climate controlled dome for the future. I'm not sold on the Tampa 2 yet, but I have a feeling that comes down to depth at in the line so when we lose 1 or 2 to injury its a blip on the radar. Have to create pressure from that position without blitzing. I dont think Cuse is going to have an issue getting skill players on offense in this system and I heard Julian Whigham say the other day the Tampa 2 is a DBs dream so hopefully we can succeed in that area too. Dino is my ride or die for the next 5 years and I hope the is the Orange's as well.

 

[OrangeDW]

Hard to recruit when people are calling for your firing the year after you win a bowl.

Hard to recruit when almost your whole staff is in over their heads because you hired all your buddies, leading to the team looking so awful that people are calling for your head in year two.

Good defensive coordinator. Not good at running and leading a program.

 

[MadNY3]

Hard to recruit when people are calling for your firing the year after you win a bowl.

Welcome to College Football. Goodness, think Syracuse is the only school where people demand success?

 

[OrangeDW]

100% this. IMO a program like Cuse needs stability to SUcceed. Its going to be harder before it gets easier. We cant continue to have a revolving door in the HC position. He needs to build pipelines and gain trust for a P5 type of players to Cuse. In a PERFECT scenario I think Cuse needs to re-shirt all lineman on both sides of that ball unless they are absolutely special. Cuse doesnt get lineman that are ready to play right away. Those folks go to FSU, BAMA, and Clemson etc. I think you get to the point where its optimal that you dont start any line man until their 3rd year (Redshirt Soph)3 years into the program they are they are built and conditioned to compete at P5 level. As everyone knows both lines are getting pushed around by "inferior" competition, by the third year this wont happen as much. When you have a head coach in position for 5 years you are getting the type of lineman that fits your system and you can start building that depth. When you go from P's system, to GROB's west coast system, to Marrone's system, to Shafer, and now an entirely new lineman in Babers you get 49-76 since 2007. I like Dino's system in the climate controlled dome for the future. I'm not sold on the Tampa 2 yet, but I have a feeling that comes down to depth at in the line so when we lose 1 or 2 to injury its a blip on the radar. Have to create pressure from that position without blitzing. I dont think Cuse is going to have an issue getting skill players on offense in this system and I heard Julian Whigham say the other day the Tampa 2 is a DBs dream so hopefully we can succeed in that area too. Dino is my ride or die for the next 5 years and I hope the is the Orange's as well.

Agreed, but you've gotta have the right guys. GRob and Shafer clearly were not. Marrone was, but he left on his own for a better job. If he had stayed long term, I think we'd be solid right now.

I think Babers is the right guy, and will do a good job long term here.

 

[HOFCeluck]

lol

 

[Louie and Bouie]

He's already passed Shafer.

When he gets to 15 wins on or better beore the end of Season 3 he will have passed Shafer in the only metric that matters at this level of football - wins. Still to early to tell whether he can actually do it or not. Only time and playing the games will answer that question.

 

[Ozcuse]

Welcome to College 'ing Football. Goodness, think Syracuse is the only school where people demand success?

Pretty much. Division I college football is no longer just rooting for your alma mater on Saturdays, it's a year round multi billion dollar business.

 

[OrangeDW]

When he gets to 15 wins on or better beore the end of Season 3 he will have passed Shafer in the only metric that matters at this level of football - wins. Still to early to tell whether he can actually do it or not. Only time and playing the games will answer that question.

When he doesn't get fired after his 3rd season(and he won't) he will have passed Shafer.

14 wins in 3 years, but 7 of them were in year one, taking over a program that had won 20 games and made 2 bowls the previous 3 years. Babers is trying to clean up a disaster, not trying to continue a reasonably successful program.

 

[CousCuse]

Welcome to College 'ing Football. Goodness, think Syracuse is the only school where people demand success?

You can demand a child to use the toilet during potty training all you want, and often it makes it worse. I cite that example because building up a program that has fallen so far takes more patience than brute force. Now people are going to have to be patient with Dino, maybe for 3 or 4 more years and it won't help to attack him or be hypercritical. K.

 

[NineOneSeven]

And Grob left Pugh, Nassib and Lemon.

It's not even close. We had legit players on that 2012 roster. People forget, somehow, how good Nassib and Lemon were together. I mean hell... Nassib is still on NFL rosters.

 

[OrangeDW]

You can demand a child to use the toilet during potty training all you want, and often it makes it worse. I cite that example because building up a program that has fallen so far takes more patience than brute force. Now people are going to have to be patient with Dino, maybe for 3 or 4 more years and it won't help to attack him or be hypercritical. K.

Shafer took over a program that was doing ok. Like I said above, 20 wins in the previous 3 years, and 2 bowl games. 7-5, 5-7, 8-5 in the last 3 years of Marrone. If Shafer had continued that, people wouldn't have wanted him out after 2-3 years.

I very rarely remember us getting absolutely blown out in the Marrone years. Even when we were clearly outclassed, we usually hung around and kept the game respectable.

Even in year one of Shafer, we got absolutely destroyed 2-3 times. Marrone wasn't losing 56-0 to anybody, let alone Georgia Tech. It was clear by year 2 of Shafer that things were headed south. Team looked awful and we were routinely getting embarrassed. Then it continued in year 3.