Should Shafer be given a 3rd year? (LONG)

[tep624]

Yes. He deserves another year.

 

[boog7]

There is no end to the negativity and bad vibes around the program , that can't be a good thing. Certainly doesn't help attendance.

Just win, baby, and all that takes care of itself. When you lose, there will most certainly be negative repercussions and blowback. It's unavoidable. That's the reality of big time college football (and all major sports, really).

 

[Fjoinkay]

I haven't completely given up Shafer, although the doubts are certainly there. But I want him to succeed and I like the fact that the team always plays hard for him. I also like the fact that even though they lost every game against their toughest opponents this season, they weren't completely blown out this year like they were in 2013. I especially loved the effort against Clemson in a hostile Death Valley. That was encouraging.

Yes, I think these kids love playing for Shafer. He's always had that. The remainder of this season would be a challenge for any head coach even with years of experience being a head coach. I like that he has a lot of experience with successful head coaches to draw on as he moves forward. Some coaches refuse to adapt, and I think Shafer is more flexible than that and beneath his fire and his competitive spirit he is humble enough to learn from his mistakes.

 

[wfschrec]

Yes, I watched in horror. Brown, the MD QB who was mocked on this board before the game, threw for 280 yards. That's all you need to know. My point was about being prepared to play the game. SU was simply NOT prepared to play MD and that's on the coaches.

When 280 yards is considered a great number for a college QB you let me know ... the 70s called they want their passing leaders back. That is at best a pedestrian number ... and 95 of them was on one play ... you didn't watch the game you glanced at a boxscore and came to a conclusion .. a poor one at that.

 

[OrangePA]

The long version:

Again, I see the need for some historical perspective.

Schwartzwalder's real breakthrough was in his 8th season, McPherson's in his 7th, (what would a Syracusefan.com board have looked like in 1986?). We are now in the 6th season of the Marrone/Shafer Era.

"But it's a different era!"

Yes it is. And that doesn't matter useless it's an era was building the Syracuse University football program into a perennial winner is easier now than it was then. Is it? I don't think so. For one thing, we've had a near total change of the coaching staff in the middle of this rebuilding effort. You could argue that all we're in in the second year of the Shafer Era. This is the best conference we've ever been in, (I might think differently if we were in the Coastal Division in this silly set-up), and our schedules are as tough as they've ever been, (although Coach Mac faced some pretty tough ones in the early 80's). We've got more money than we ever had and better facilities but they are not better than the teams we are competing with in our conference. they get the same money and presumably have facilities just as good. The money and the buildings is to allow us to compete with them. It wont' give us an advantage over them. meanwhile former small colleges and mid-majors have risen to get a piece of the major college pie in our traditional recruiting grounds: Connecticut, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Central and South Florida. In the past, Syracuse would have had many of the players they are using. Finally, the balance of power in college football has shifted to the south. It used to be that the northern teams were the big, strong teams and the southern teams were the fast, quick teams. But everybody has weight rooms now so the difference between teams isn't about being big and strong, its' about being fast and quick so that's what makes the good teams good. Northern teams try to recruit southern players but we get the B and C listers and wind up playing against the A listers. Yeah, it's anew era. A tougher one.

"let's get a big-name coach!"

Ben Schwartzwalder used to say "The alumni wanted a big name coach. What they got was a long-name coach." The long name coach won a national championship. Syracuse had had a lot of famous coaches: Frank O'Neill, Howard Jones, Tad Jones, Chick Meehan, Lew Andreas, Vic Hanson, Ossie Solem, Schwartwalder, Dick MacPherson, Paul Pasqualoni and now Doug Marrone. O'Neill, the Jones, Schwartzwalder and McPherson are in the Hall of Fame. The only one who had been a major college football coach before he got the Syracuse job was Solem, who had coached at Drake and Iowa. Famous coaches don't come here. Coaches become famous here. They are all learning on the job. If we spent the money to get a famous coach, there'd be less money for his staff and the recruiting budget. We'd be top heavy. We'd likely find out why the famous coach was available and the reason could be bad news for us. And if the famous coach was successful, he's jump to a powerhouse as soon as there was an opening.

And famous coaches and blue-chip recruits don't tend to come to places where the stands are half empty and those that come leave early.

This is probably the most difficult level at which to be a head coach. In high school it's about youth programs, teaching the game and coaching the team. In the small colleges it's about coaching well enough that you win more than your rivals and a player who wasn't quite a D-1 prosect but can play goes to your school instead of them. At the FCS level it's about getting the under-the radar guys who will play against under the radar guys. if you are BCS but not in the power conferences you can dominate your conference the way Boise State did. if you are a true powerhouse, a "Selector school", you are automatically on the short list of any recruit you contact and you can win most of your games just because you have more and better talent than they do. In the pros, you have adult, professionals who are elite athletes and know how to stay that way. So you concentrate on game plans. if you are in a power conference but not a powerhouse, you are competing against blue-chippers with under the radar guys. You have fans who remember when your school was good and demand that this year's team be as good as they remember. Not many coaches are going to have consistent success at this level.

And not many coaches are going to do very well when their team is, as described above "a MASH unit". That's hardly the point at which to judge them.

By the way, Scott Shafer has already won as many games in less than two years as G-ROB did in four against a much tougher schedule. Stop comparing the comparisons. They are nonsense.

Finally, you aren't going to build a program by firing the coach every two years until you find somebody that Millhouse thinks is "smart". That's how you destroy it.

(I wonder how many people Millhouse thinks are smart?)

I'm pretty sure that Millhouse doesn't think that anybody is smart - other than that HS coach in Texas who never punts!

 

[rrlbees]

I'm pretty sure that Millhouse doesn't think that anybody is smart - other than that HS coach in Texas who never punts!

I bet he thinks you're smart. He just doesn't always agree with you.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm pretty sure that Millhouse doesn't think that anybody is smart - other than that HS coach in Texas who never punts!

You don't know anything! He's in Arkansas duh

(I am kidding I think he's in Arkansas anyway)

 

[kirbivore]

Shafer beat Addazzio last year and SU won their bowl game, BC lost. BC plays Lville and Fsu the next 2 games , so we will see where they are at then. One thing to note : Their one year QB will be gone and AJ will just be getting better.

BC's already bowl eligible. Playing with house money.

 

[brian]

BC's already bowl eligible. Playing with house money.

of course they are, Addazio can recruit his arse off and he is a hell of a coach,, oh what could of been...

 

[phil77]

I think we should clean house from the top down...Get a new AD and get a new coach with a new direction. We need new life new blood new vision. Our vision and direction the program is going to outdated and stale. We need to hire and offensive mind and pay the correct dollar figure and go from there. We made a commitment to football with the IPF we need to continue that with a new AD and a new coaching staff. Lets bring some excitement to the program.

 

[Scooch]

I tend to think decisions about retaining coaches should be made the opposite of the way one decides about retaining players, absent some unique circumstances.

In the pro game a good rule of thumb is to get rid of a player a year too early rather than a year too late. Carrying a declining player that counts against the cap, takes up a roster spot, etc. becomes an albatross. I'll use my Pats as an example. People screamed and yelled when they traded Logan Mankins earlier this season. But the guy graded out poorly last year and in pre-season camp, and the team felt that had capable, cheap guys on the roster who could replace him. They also got out from under his salary, which was large. Despite some early struggles, now their OL is gelling *an* they have had the means to acquire players to replace defensive guys lost to injury. So perfect case study in dumping someone early, rather than late.

But I believe the opposite about head coaches. It's year 2 for Shafer, and there are a ton of variables at play this year that make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to judge exactly how he is performing. Cutting bait now would cause a ton of disruption -- in player development, recruiting, etc. There is almost always some amount of stepping back when a new coach comes in, so one should be very cautious about when that occurs.

The unique circumstances, in my mind, happen when it becomes painfully obvious that the head coach in question is unequivocally in way over his head, performance is an abject disaster, or has completely lost the faith of his players. Greg Schiano in Tampa Bay is a great example of this. But none of that applies to Shafer, IMHO.

So better to wait than act hastily. If, worst case scenario, he follows a 3-9 season with another 3-4 win clunker than I think we'd have enough evidence to make a decision. Far too early at this point though.

 

[Jack_Ball]

I think we should clean house from the top down...Get a new AD and get a new coach with a new direction. We need new life new blood new vision. Our vision and direction the program is going to outdated and stale. We need to hire and offensive mind and pay the correct dollar figure and go from there. We made a commitment to football with the IPF we need to continue that with a new AD and a new coaching staff. Lets bring some excitement to the program.

I agree with this thought process as of right now...Gross seems to be totally inept when it comes to football and hiring coaches. How he can pay way above market value for woman's lax coach but then pay near the bottom for football is mind boggling?
Shafer was technically an interm hire since Marrone left so late in the game...Weren't Shafer and hackett are only 2 canidates at the time?