Should Shafer be given a 3rd year? (LONG) | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

Should Shafer be given a 3rd year? (LONG)

Brown threw for 280 yards ... MD had 369 total ... not exactly great. An INT returned for a score, a 28 yard TD drive and a drive of -3 yards to kick a FG ... does anyone watch these games? If that pick isn't thrown and they aren't gifted two scores MD puts up 20 points ... the same amount they scored in a win at Happy Valley ... mediocre or not they are 6-3 with wins over PSU, Iowa and took a very solid WVU team to the wire. Hell that same MD team had a better offensive performance against WVU than Baylor did. Reading some of this stuff makes me shake my head.
Yes, I watched in horror. Brown, the MD QB who was mocked on this board before the game, threw for 280 yards. That's all you need to know. My point was about being prepared to play the game. SU was simply NOT prepared to play MD and that's on the coaches.
 
So if someone feels that way, should they not be entitled to state their opinion?
Exactly. Am I only allowed to express "the approved" opinion? It's funny, 'cause I thought I was in the United States of America?
 
I didn't say Shafer should be fired because I haven't definitively concluded that Shafer should be fired, not because I was being dishonest. I was simply expressing my opinions and asking questions, which by the way, is precisely what message boards are used for.
But you don't conclude that if there are many people questioning his methods and abilities it makes it more difficult to accomplish his task.
 
OrangeinBoston said:
Yes, I watched in horror. Brown, the MD QB who was mocked on this board before the game, threw for 280 yards. That's all you need to know. My point was about being prepared to play the game. SU was simply NOT prepared to play MD and that's on the coaches.


They were prepared to play - gave up two big plays on D and one horrible pick 6 on O. Otherwise, we outplayed them. Go back and watch the game.
 
RF2044 said:
That's your opinion. Not what I've heard from other sources, who believed that the changes were needed and necessary to break ties with the culture left by the previous staff.

Not my opinion at all.
 
Not my opinion at all.

I'll agree to disagree on that one. I'm not sure that I put much stock in your objectivity / impartiality on this topic, given your tendency to defend all things GRob whenever anything critical of him comes up.
 
RF2044 said:
I'll agree to disagree on that one. I'm not sure that I put much stock in your objectivity / impartiality on this topic, given your tendency to defend all things GRob whenever anything critical of him comes up.

Has nothing to do with Grob. Why would it? I think you're misapplying the term culture. Go back to where I first jumped in and you'll see what I was specifically speaking of. Again, "cleaning house" had little to do with changing any culture.
 
But you don't conclude that if there are many people questioning his methods and abilities it makes it more difficult to accomplish his task.
Ahh, poor Scotty. Man, put your big boy pants on. If Shafer can't handle fans questioning his abilities in the midst of a losing season, as you assert, he's in the wrong profession. Though I seriously doubt SS is worrying about message boards, right now.
 
Has nothing to do with Grob. Why would it? I think you're misapplying the term culture. Go back to where I first jumped in and you'll see what I was specifically speaking of. Again, "cleaning house" had little to do with changing any culture.

I'm not misapplying anything. A lot more players than the 9 you refer to above departed when Marrone took over. Its not like the coaches dismissed ~25+ players to harvest scholarships [your term]. Your explanation overlooks a significant number of the departures.

Some were told that they wouldn't play here, and coaxed toward the door. A few others had issues that led to their dismissal. And the rest were given a choice--adhere to the offseason committment, focus, work ethic, and off field conduct that the new coaching staff was demanding, or self-select to opt out of the program. And those that weren't willing to do those things walked away--which was their choice, not criticizing them for that decision--but it was 100% predicated upon making a cultural change within the team for those that remained and those who would come on board later as recruits. No misapplication of the term there.
 
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You are correct. The first group of 9 that got "the call" to meet with Marrone had nothing to do with culture. Nada. After that I guess you can say a few players, such as Williams, were impacted by a "change in culture. But the only 2 I can think of, knowing the story of many of them, were Williams and Speller, and Mayr one other whose name escapes me right now. Other kids left of course because they didn't like their prospects with the team. But the house cleaning of those first 9 were about, what I will call, harvesting scholarships. I'll leave it at that.

He needed to turn over the roster.

As I understand it he told some kids they weren't ever going to play here. I don't know if he pulled their scholarships however. Some kids at the level stuck around and never saw the field.

Just as many were kids that would have had a role and didn't want to stay.
 
RF2044 said:
I'm not misapplying anything. A lot more players than the 9 you refer to above departed when Marrone took over. Its not like the coaches dismissed ~25+ players to harvest scholarships [your term]. Your explanation overlooks a significant number of the departures. Some were told that they wouldn't play here, and coaxed toward the door. A few others had issues that led to their dismissal. And the rest were given a choice--adhere to the offseason committment, focus, work ethic, and off field conduct that the new coaching staff was demanding, or self-select to opt out of the program. And those that weren't willing to do those things walked away--which was their choice, not criticizing them for that decision--but it was 100% predicated upon making a cultural change within the team for those that remained and those who would come on board later as recruits. No misapplication of the term there.


Ok, you didn't misapply it. But you're use of the word had a minimal impact on why kids left or were asked to leave. Scholarship harvesting, playing time, role in the team, off field issues and the natural attrition that happens every year regardless of coach, was the majority of reasons.
 
Has nothing to do with Grob. Why would it? I think you're misapplying the term culture. Go back to where I first jumped in and you'll see what I was specifically speaking of. Again, "cleaning house" had little to do with changing any culture.

I agree to a large extent. Two different, but related things.

This program had a bunch of structural issues. The roster was one, the culture of the program was another.

Some kids left because they just weren't going to be given a chance to play. I don't know if that is being "run off", I don't know if they had their scholarships yanked. What it is at a minimum is being brutally honest.

Some kids left because what Marrone was trying to do with the program wasn't what they signed up for.

Some kids got bounced as examples for various degrees of transgressions.

It was never all one thing that led to that many kids leaving.
 
I ask this because the more I think about it, the more I think that retaining him will only delay the inevitable.

Listen, I like Scott Shafer as a man. I like his core values, his enthusiasm, and I just think he's a good person. But I also felt that way about GRob. And unfortunately, I'm starting to think that, like GRob, Shafer just doesn't have what it takes to be a successful Head Coach. Effective D-Coordinator, yes; HC, not so sure.

Now I'll be the first to admit, if he somehow leads this team to 3 straight wins and a bowl game, my opinion will change b/c he will have then pulled off a miracle and will have justly earned the right to remain HC.

But that 's not likely, imho. It's more likely that we lose all 3. Right now we're lucky to be 3-6 (should be 2-7; thanks Villanova kicker). We're likely NOT going bowling, and while recruiting has improved some (still not killing it), overall, there's just been nothing else that I've seen during Shafer's reign that leads me to believe that the program is definitively trending in the right direction. Since he's taken over, there have just been several poor decisions made on his part that have lead to what will likely be a losing record after his 1st two years at the helm.

There are various examples (Allen over Hunt, misuse of personnel & redshirts, several in-game decisions, etc.) but I'll focus on what I believe to be his most glaring and costly faux paus: The hiring and firing (essentially) of George McDonald.

In theory, it was a smart hire. Bring in a young up & coming coach whose true forte is recruiting; specifically recruiting in talent-rich South Florida. But to pry him away from the SEC job he held, SS had to offer him the OC spot. With that comes a degree of risk but it's a risk I think Shafer was wise to take.

But the problem is that he brings in a guy who wants to run a spread "N-Zone" attack that A) SU simply doesn't have the personnel to run effectively, and B) philosophically doesn't really mesh well with Shaf's wheelhouse which is tough, stifling defense. Everyone knows that ball control and a strong running game is a stout defenses' best friend. Three & outs are the enemy. Even a lousy (head) coach like Rex Ryan was initially able to win when he had the "ground-n-pound" thing working for him.

But this "N-Zone" system is a pass-first system that seems to de-emphasize the run game and instead relies on short passes and bubble screens, which are considered "long handoffs." The problem there is that you need an accurate QB and fast, dynamic playmakers for this offense to really click; components that SU didn't have at the time of the hire (and arguably, still doesn't). What they DID have was returning power back (now on an NFL roster) who had rushed for 1100 yds, and his sidekick who added another 800 yds & a bowl game MVP by exploding for 200+.

So to me, SS's 1st poor decision was moving to this all-shotgun, all-spread, pass-oriented attack when your personnel and strengths as a coach were better suited for a "multiple," more run-oriented style like Marrone/Hackett employed and like Harbaugh/Pep Hamilton ran at Stanford. Both of these balanced but run-oriented styles still incorporated enough passing to allow Andrew Luck to throw his way to the #1 pick and for Ryan Nassib to ascend to a 4th round pick. Why Shafer didn't choose to replicate the Marrone/Stanford approach is baffling to me, considering he was a part of both staffs and saw the successes first hand. Now we all suffer from the repercussions of that initial poor choice when we watch this mismatched, ineffective offensive system continually sputter & stumble every Saturday.

But as bad as choosing to fit the proverbial 'square peg in a round hole' with the GMac hire/N-Zone implementation, imho, demoting the man 18 games into his tenure as OC was an even worse decision. I mean, I know many fans wanted GM's head on a platter and were very pleased when they got it. But let's face it, folks: switching to Lester hasn't made a bit of damn difference on the scoreboard or in the W-L column. The offense sucked under McDonald and it still sucks under Lester. The differences are miniscule at best.

And the reason is pretty obvious: there is a dearth of big time, game changing talent @ the skill positions on this team. There's not one offensive player on this team that keeps opposing D-coordinators up at night. And while GMac may not have been the best play caller in the world, it really doesn't matter what you call when your QB is inaccurate, when your receivers regularly drop passes and your O-line is undisciplined, mistake-prone & often over-matched.

IMO, Shafer should have rode out the storm w/ McDonald and allowed him work through his struggles the same way Marrone allowed Hackett to work through his. And again, that's something Shafer was witness to but apparently didn't learn from it; not a good sign. McDonald is a bright guy and had he just been afforded the opportunity to grow into his new role the same way Hackett was, in the long run, the program would've been better off for it. While there was no guarantee GM would've "got it" the way NH did, I think Shafer would've been better served micro-managing GMac a little more, being more hands-on in the offensive game plan/play calling or maybe even bringing in a "consultant" to assist McDonald.

But by pulling the plug 18 games in and demoting GMac, Shafer has now virtually guaranteed his departure. And I believe that will ultimately prove to be something he (and we) will regret. While some folks try to diminish his accomplishments as a recruiter, I just have four words for you: Steve Ishmael, Miami Florida. Trying getting another player that damn talented out of Dade county to come to SU without GMac. And he was just getting started, imo. But by unwisely burning that bridge, which I believe Shafer has done, you still have a putrid offense but now you'll be without your ace recruiter who can bring in the kind of studs this team so desperately needs. And now you're kind of stuck w/ Lester as your OC for whatever that's worth (could be a good thing; could not) b/c I don't think Shafer will be able to attract a big time OC coming off of a (likely) losing season that will at the very minimum have his seat warm, if not flat out hot. To me, demoting GM was a reactionary panic move, not a well thought out, measured move; again, another bad sign, imo.

But whether you agree or disagree with the GMac demotion, I don't think it's unfair to say that Shafer's handling of the offensive side of the ball has been poor at best, bordering on incompetent, not unlike the Rex Ryans and GRobs of the world who continually change OCs and reshuffle the offensive deck only to end up in the same inept place.

Again, I really like Scott Shafer but I just don't see the sharpness, the certitude and clarity of vision that one often detects in a winning coach (in any sport). I think what we're seeing in Shaf is guy who's fiery & passionate, good at what he does (defense) but in over his head as a HC. Good Lieutenants don't always make good Generals and I'm afraid that's what we're seeing unfold w/ SS.

And we've all seen this movie before. It rarely ends well.

So back to my original question: Assuming Shafer doesn't run the table, does Gross (or the next AD if there is to be one) give SS a third year to try to right the ship? Or does he see another GRob situation developing and cut his losses now like he erroneously DIDN'T do with Robinson? Your thoughts.

Just read this, and I probably should read it again before replying. I'll just say that I find a lot of this easy to agree with. In the final analysis for me I see HCSS learning how to be a head coach. I think he can succeed at SU, but time will tell.

I have no idea why HCSS hired GMac, and I have no idea why he fired GMac especially during the season. When I heard the news of the change to Lester I was surprised, but then when I heard about T-Hunt being out I was instantly relieved that GMac wouldn't be the OC with the young QBs. GMac is talented, and I believe he will likely become a successful OC. When this offense was healthy early in the season they would often show a lot of potential in flashes, but these flashes emerged from what I saw as consistent confusion and lack of clarity on the field. I saw no signs of improvement, and I think inserting Lester with T-Hunt out and now with all of these injuries has made what could have been a disastrous situation into a merely frustrating and disappointing situation that is somewhat common when a starting QB goes down and the offensive line is battered.

Maybe GMac would have handled this situation as well as or better than Lester, but I have serious doubts based on his 18 games as OC. Again, I have no idea why HCSS made the change or why he chose to make the change when he did, but if Lester turns out to be a successful OC then HCSS will deserve a lot of credit for making this change and sticking with it. If promoting Lester turns out to be a mistake we will all likely suffer. That's the unfortunate reality.

To my eye this season is nothing like the GRob situation on either side of the ball at least so far. HCSS in 2009 under FHCDM immediately improved the SU defense. His defense in his second year as DC, 2010, was easily one of the best defenses SU has had in my lifetime, and without any real offense to help out other than hard running from DC3 and tough play from Nassib the defense was largely responsible for SU making a bowl game that year. FHCDM deserves all the credit for hiring HCSS, being a micro-manager on both sides of the ball because that is who he is even though some coaches may disagree with that style, and for winning the Pinstripe Bowl against Kansas State- really, for returning SU to respectability after the abysmal fall. I was surprised when Marrone left for the NFL, and I immediately feared a return to the GRob era level of play.

FHCDM learned a lot about being a head coach during his 4 years at SU. He made a lot of mistakes, and he changed his approach along the way. He adapted and learned which is one of his strengths. I think HCSS is learning and making some mistakes as well. I think HCSS probably wishes that he had incorporated right away more of what he saw from FHCDM and others especially on offense. My sense has been that HCSS emphasized from day one that he wasn't a micro-manager. I felt like he was trying to differentiate himself from FHCDM in that regard almost as if they maybe had some friendly disagreements on that topic over the years working together. I think working with his friends may have been another factor for why he chose to give his coordinators a lot of freedom. Lately my sense is that HCSS is micro-managing more than he did previously. At the same time he's never going to manage the way Marrone did, and he shouldn't if it doesn't fit.

I think Lester is more of a micro-manager than GMac, and I think that is helpful. Like everyone I fear a return to the GRob level of play on the offense almost like I would fear Ebola if I was exposed somehow. The GRob era offenses were abysmal up front. Mitch Browning came in at the end and made some improvements. However, the offensive line was so bad that it took Marrone a couple of years at least to get that unit to function at a competitive level. I would hate to see that improvement somehow squandered. It took Marrone until his final year to have a really successful offense at SU. This offense right now even with several crippling injuries is functioning better than any offense GRob had and also I'm guessing as well as or better than SU's offenses very early in the Marrone era. Even now I think Marrone deserves some of the credit because he laid the foundation especially up front. Marrone and Hackett's 2012 SU offense was the first really successful offense at SU going back probably maybe over a decade. So, offense is the clearly critical factor as hit has been since the defense became respectable again in 2009. We saw tremendous improvement with offense under Marrone, and right now the future is uncertain. Is it injuries, scheme, coaching, or all of that and more? HCSS appears to have made his decision with Lester. No matter what, going forward SU will need to find a way to be at least above average up front.

My biggest disappointment so far was the way SU entered this season. Going into this season with this schedule SU really needed to start strong. They did not. The start was a mystery to me then, and it remains a mystery to me now. I just think HCSS is a different coach right now than he was 2.5 months ago, and I think he is improving. Time will tell. I also hope he can continue to improve the way he regulates his emotions during the game. I like the fire. The fire will always be there with him. I'd like to see him be more fluid sometimes in those heated moments, and rather than ride the waves of that reactive heat move sooner back to his grounded game mindset and move forward.
 
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Ahh, poor Scotty. Man, put your big boy pants on. If Shafer can't handle fans questioning his abilities in the midst of a losing season, as you assert, he's in the wrong profession. Though I seriously doubt SS is worrying about message boards, right now.
There is no end to the negativity and bad vibes around the program , that can't be a good thing. Certainly doesn't help attendance.
 
GoSU96 said:
I agree to a large extent. Two different, but related things. This program had a bunch of structural issues. The roster was one, the culture of the program was another. Some kids left because they just weren't going to be given a chance to play. I don't know if that is being "run off", I don't know if they had their scholarships yanked. What it is at a minimum is being brutally honest. Some kids left because what Marrone was trying to do with the program wasn't what they signed up for. Some kids got bounced as examples for various degrees of transgressions. It was never all one thing that led to that many kids leaving.

Agree with much of that and would rather it lie before I say more than I should. My point all along was that the loss of players wasn't due to the general term of change in culture. Most weren't. A few were.
 
Not only does he get a third year, he gets a fourth year.

Because Syracuse University doesn't fire coaches unless they have just 1 year left on their contracts.

It would take a disaster of "Grobian" proportions in 2015 for SU to even consider cutting ties with Shafer and the entire staff any earlier than that.


This observation is undoubtedly true.

I think Coach Shafer deserves more time - the entirety of his contract.

If we lose the next three games - and lose badly - I wonder if I will feel differently.

A 3-9 season with a lucky - lucky - win against Nova is pretty close to a disaster for this Program.
 
This observation is undoubtedly true.

I think Coach Shafer deserves more time - the entirety of his contract.

If we lose the next three games - and lose badly - I wonder if I will feel differently.

A 3-9 season with a lucky - lucky - win against Nova is pretty close to a disaster for this Program.
probably shouldn't have given him a 4 year deal. i'm sure it would look like a less than confident contract but that's the truth
 
The long version:

Again, I see the need for some historical perspective.

Schwartzwalder's real breakthrough was in his 8th season, McPherson's in his 7th, (what would a Syracusefan.com board have looked like in 1986?). We are now in the 6th season of the Marrone/Shafer Era.

"But it's a different era!" :mad:

Yes it is. And that doesn't matter useless it's an era was building the Syracuse University football program into a perennial winner is easier now than it was then. Is it? I don't think so. For one thing, we've had a near total change of the coaching staff in the middle of this rebuilding effort. You could argue that all we're in in the second year of the Shafer Era. This is the best conference we've ever been in, (I might think differently if we were in the Coastal Division in this silly set-up), and our schedules are as tough as they've ever been, (although Coach Mac faced some pretty tough ones in the early 80's). We've got more money than we ever had and better facilities but they are not better than the teams we are competing with in our conference. they get the same money and presumably have facilities just as good. The money and the buildings is to allow us to compete with them. It wont' give us an advantage over them. meanwhile former small colleges and mid-majors have risen to get a piece of the major college pie in our traditional recruiting grounds: Connecticut, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Central and South Florida. In the past, Syracuse would have had many of the players they are using. Finally, the balance of power in college football has shifted to the south. It used to be that the northern teams were the big, strong teams and the southern teams were the fast, quick teams. But everybody has weight rooms now so the difference between teams isn't about being big and strong, its' about being fast and quick so that's what makes the good teams good. Northern teams try to recruit southern players but we get the B and C listers and wind up playing against the A listers. Yeah, it's anew era. A tougher one.

"let's get a big-name coach!" :eek:

Ben Schwartzwalder used to say "The alumni wanted a big name coach. What they got was a long-name coach." The long name coach won a national championship. Syracuse had had a lot of famous coaches: Frank O'Neill, Howard Jones, Tad Jones, Chick Meehan, Lew Andreas, Vic Hanson, Ossie Solem, Schwartwalder, Dick MacPherson, Paul Pasqualoni and now Doug Marrone. O'Neill, the Jones, Schwartzwalder and McPherson are in the Hall of Fame. The only one who had been a major college football coach before he got the Syracuse job was Solem, who had coached at Drake and Iowa. Famous coaches don't come here. Coaches become famous here. They are all learning on the job. If we spent the money to get a famous coach, there'd be less money for his staff and the recruiting budget. We'd be top heavy. We'd likely find out why the famous coach was available and the reason could be bad news for us. And if the famous coach was successful, he's jump to a powerhouse as soon as there was an opening.

And famous coaches and blue-chip recruits don't tend to come to places where the stands are half empty and those that come leave early.

This is probably the most difficult level at which to be a head coach. In high school it's about youth programs, teaching the game and coaching the team. In the small colleges it's about coaching well enough that you win more than your rivals and a player who wasn't quite a D-1 prosect but can play goes to your school instead of them. At the FCS level it's about getting the under-the radar guys who will play against under the radar guys. if you are BCS but not in the power conferences you can dominate your conference the way Boise State did. if you are a true powerhouse, a "Selector school", you are automatically on the short list of any recruit you contact and you can win most of your games just because you have more and better talent than they do. In the pros, you have adult, professionals who are elite athletes and know how to stay that way. So you concentrate on game plans. if you are in a power conference but not a powerhouse, you are competing against blue-chippers with under the radar guys. You have fans who remember when your school was good and demand that this year's team be as good as they remember. Not many coaches are going to have consistent success at this level.

And not many coaches are going to do very well when their team is, as described above "a MASH unit". That's hardly the point at which to judge them.

By the way, Scott Shafer has already won as many games in less than two years as G-ROB did in four against a much tougher schedule. Stop making the comparisons. They are nonsense.

Finally, you aren't going to build a program by firing the coach every two years until you find somebody that Millhouse thinks is "smart". That's how you destroy it.

(I wonder how many people Millhouse thinks are smart?)
 
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The long version:

Again, I see the need for some historical perspective.

Schwartzwalder's real breakthrough was in his 8th season, McPherson's in his 7th, (what would a Syracusefan.com board have looked like in 1986?). We are now in the 6th season of the Marrone/Shafer Era.

"But it's a different era!" :mad:

Yes it is. And that doesn't matter useless it's an era was building the Syracuse University football program into a perennial winner is easier now than it was then. Is it? I don't think so. For one thing, we've had a near total change of the coaching staff in the middle of this rebuilding effort. You could argue that all we're in in the second year of the Shafer Era. This is the best conference we've ever been in, (I might think differently if we were in the Coastal Division in this silly set-up), and our schedules are as tough as they've ever been, (although Coach Mac faced some pretty tough ones in the early 80's). We've got more money than we ever had and better facilities but they are not better than the teams we are competing with in our conference. they get the same money and presumably have facilities just as good. The money and the buildings is to allow us to compete with them. It wont' give us an advantage over them. meanwhile former small colleges and mid-majors have risen to get a piece of the major college pie in our traditional recruiting grounds: Connecticut, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Central and South Florida. In the past, Syracuse would have had many of the players they are using. Finally, the balance of power in college football has shifted to the south. It used to be that the northern teams were the big, strong teams and the southern teams were the fast, quick teams. But everybody has weight rooms now so the difference between teams isn't about being big and strong, its' about being fast and quick so that's what makes the good teams good. Northern teams try to recruit southern players but we get the B and C listers and wind up playing against the A listers. Yeah, it's anew era. A tougher one.

"let's get a big-name coach!" :eek:

Ben Schwartzwalder used to say "The alumni wanted a big name coach. What they got was a long-name coach." The long name coach won a national championship. Syracuse had had a lot of famous coaches: Frank O'Neill, Howard Jones, Tad Jones, Chick Meehan, Lew Andreas, Vic Hanson, Ossie Solem, Schwartwalder, Dick MacPherson, Paul Pasqualoni and now Doug Marrone. O'Neill, the Jones, Schwartzwalder and McPherson are in the Hall of Fame. The only one who had been a major college football coach before he got the Syracuse job was Solem, who had coached at Drake and Iowa. Famous coaches don't come here. Coaches become famous here. They are all learning on the job. If we spent the money to get a famous coach, there'd be less money for his staff and the recruiting budget. We'd be top heavy. We'd likely find out why the famous coach was available and the reason could be bad news for us. And if the famous coach was successful, he's jump to a powerhouse as soon as there was an opening.

And famous coaches and blue-chip recruits don't tend to come to places where the stands are half empty and those that come leave early.

This is probably the most difficult level at which to be a head coach. In high school it's about youth programs, teaching the game and coaching the team. In the small colleges it's about coaching well enough that you win more than your rivals and a player who wasn't quite a D-1 prosect but can play goes to your school instead of them. At the FCS level it's about getting the under-the radar guys who will play against under the radar guys. if you are BCS but not in the power conferences you can dominate your conference the way Boise State did. if you are a true powerhouse, a "Selector school", you are automatically on the short list of any recruit you contact and you can win most of your games just because you have more and better talent than they do. In the pros, you have adult, professionals who are elite athletes and know how to stay that way. So you concentrate on game plans. if you are in a power conference but not a powerhouse, you are competing against blue-chippers with under the radar guys. You have fans who remember when your school was good and demand that this year's team be as good as they remember. Not many coaches are going to have consistent success at this level.

And not many coaches are going to do very well when their team is, as described above "a MASH unit". That's hardly the point at which to judge them.

Finally, you aren't going to build a program by firing the coach every two years until you find somebody that Millhouse thinks is "smart". That's how you destroy it.

(I wonder how many people Millhouse thinks are smart?)
keeping people i don't think are smart has worked so well!
 
keeping people i don't think are smart has worked so well!

it's worked a lot better than getting a new coach every couple of years would.
 
it's worked a lot better than getting a new coach every couple of years would.
i do mean to pat myself on the back and I say this with no due respect to most of the meathead old timers on this board, i saw spread to run, 4th down analytics, and no huddle coming a lot earlier than most here (late 90s)

not my fault we promote from within or ask pete carroll what he thinks
 
Finally, you aren't going to build a program by firing the coach every two years until you find somebody that Millhouse thinks is "smart". That's how you destroy it.

We'd only be firing one coach after 2 years. A coach who is an extension of the previous coach, who left and we didn't have a choice.

Stanford realized they made a mistake after 2 years with Walt Harris. If you asked, I think they'd say it was the best decision they ever made.

I'm not saying to do it. But I just question people thinking this is part of some trend. It's not. If you, as the AD, want to fire the next guy in 2 years, then yeah, you probably need to look in the mirror a bit.
 
... I just think HCSS is a different coach right now than he was 2.5 months ago, and I think he is improving. Time will tell...
I haven't completely given up Shafer, although the doubts are certainly there. But I want him to succeed and I like the fact that the team always plays hard for him. I also like the fact that even though they lost every game against their toughest opponents this season, they weren't completely blown out this year like they were in 2013. I especially loved the effort against Clemson in a hostile Death Valley. That was encouraging.
 

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