Some hard decisions have to be made with this program

[GoSU96]

Dead, absolutely dead, wrong on this being about more money for DM.

Dave, who are you responding to?

 

[44PRIDE]

Dead, absolutely dead, wrong on this being about more money for DM.

Well that's the worst news I've heard yet, because money was probably the one thing we could've enticed Marrone with today...immediately...like right now.

Dave, can you enlighten us on what the hell happened to lead us here? How did it go so bad so quickly? We've all been reading between the lines of your pseudo cryptic post the other day about how the environment was somewhat toxic. Could you give us a bit more clarity?

Edit: Dave, Is the B.O.T against spending the ACC money on the football program?

 

[DaveR52]

I was responding to Mark's comment that it is all about $ for him and his staff. I can buy the staff argument and believe there is a component of that, but I think he would actually stay here for less if he had the commitment he needs to compete in the ACC.

As for this whole mess, I'm working this story as hard as I possibly can and must confess I am as much in the dark as all of you. My sources have all gone silent . . . and I mean silent. I have no idea which way this will go but am more nervous than I was 24 hours ago. When I say nervous I mean as a season ticket-holder. I swear, though, I have zero idea how this will end. I thought I had a decent idea 48 hours ago but am clueless now.

 

[TexanMark]

I was responding to Mark's comment that it is all about $ for him and his staff. I can buy the staff argument and believe there is a component of that, but I think he would actually stay here for less if he had the commitment he needs to compete in the ACC.

As for this whole mess, I'm working this story as hard as I possibly can and must confess I am as much in the dark as all of you. My sources have all gone silent . . . and I mean silent. I have no idea which way this will go but am more nervous than I was 24 hours ago. When I say nervous I mean as a season ticket-holder. I swear, though, I have zero idea how this will end. I thought I had a decent idea 48 hours ago but am clueless now.

Well I agree facilities commitment and higher pay for his staff are probably tops on his list...but I'm pretty sure Doug wouldn't mind a raise too.

 

[GoSU96]

I was responding to Mark's comment that it is all about $ for him and his staff. I can buy the staff argument and believe there is a component of that, but I think he would actually stay here for less if he had the commitment he needs to compete in the ACC.

As for this whole mess, I'm working this story as hard as I possibly can and must confess I am as much in the dark as all of you. My sources have all gone silent . . . and I mean silent. I have no idea which way this will go but am more nervous than I was 24 hours ago. When I say nervous I mean as a season ticket-holder. I swear, though, I have zero idea how this will end. I thought I had a decent idea 48 hours ago but am clueless now.

Thanks Dave.

I know you need to do your job, but I think in this instance the less said, the better, until it's resolved.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree with you on all points here Mark. We need an answer from DM one way or another. This dude isn't testing the waters anymore...and this isn't a powerplay against the university. DM is looking to leave. Plain and simple.

Exactly. It's gone on WAY too long. He's interviewing for every possible job. And if I read correctly that he interviewed for the Wisconsin job during the season, then he's gone. And frankly, I'm disappointed, with us right on the cusp of a very big move to the ACC. Kind of a self-centered move by Doug right now. It's not like he finished the job he signed up for, by a long shot. Would it have killed him to see the transition through to the ACC?

 

[orangehipfan]

a couple of quick guesses/comments.

SU is a relatively small private school. NCAA football is basically dominated (except for Note Dame) by large state schools with much deeper pockets than SU. The small private schools (see Vanderbilt this year) can have "good" years but the long term, big time programs represent mostly large, state institutions.

The university has "invested" in a lot of real estate in the city of Syracuse over the past 8 - 10 years. Right or wrong this uses liquid assets and also adds overheads that may or may not be recovered. My guess is much of this is off the balance sheet of the university. I use "investments" very loosely here.

The balance sheet for public disclosure does not show the full financial portrait of the university. This is not to deceive but rather that the off balance sheet activity has grown significantly and would have an adverse affect on the actual financial performance of the school. Like many businesses, expenses have been increasing at a more rapid pace than revenues over the past 3 - 4 years.

The school expected attendance to pick up more quickly for football and it has not. Nobody realized just how bad a hiring Greg Robinson really was. This has left football revenue lagging.

The expense of new facilities/upgrades is not cheap and the university has limited unrestricted liquid assets to contribute at this time. They are trying to hold off expenditures until they see the cash from the ACC move rather than borrow now in the capital markets.

Bottom line, the university is currently not in a financial position to commit a large amount of money to athletics, especially football which requires a large commitment. That being said, coach Marrone thought things would be different by now when he signed on to the job and knows there is not a quick fix without the commitment from the school and fanbase/contributors. No blame to the board of trustees or the athletic department, just plain simple math (or finance). My guess, we are much closer to a league of BC, Uconn, army, navy (complete guesses on the schools but you get the idea) etc for football than we are to a league playing for the BCS on an annual basis. Hoops would be fine but football is a complete different monster to handle.

Again, no inside info just my thoughts. Many people think SU has unlimited funds but it does not. Compared to many other schools, its endowment (not even one of the largest in New York State, think Cornell, U of Rochester) is much smaller than most. Like any business they need to allocate capital where necessary to support their core mission. Things were much different in 2007 - 2008 before the financial crisis. The impact is felt in areas beyond what many people think.

 

[IthacaMatt]

a couple of quick guesses/comments.

SU is a relatively small private school. NCAA football is basically dominated (except for Note Dame) by large state schools with much deeper pockets than SU. The small private schools (see Vanderbilt this year) can have "good" years but the long term, big time programs represent mostly large, state institutions.

The university has "invested" in a lot of real estate in the city of Syracuse over the past 8 - 10 years. Right or wrong this uses liquid assets and also adds overheads that may or may not be recovered. My guess is much of this is off the balance sheet of the university. I use "investments" very loosely here.

The balance sheet for public disclosure does not show the full financial portrait of the university. This is not to deceive but rather that the off balance sheet activity has grown significantly and would have an adverse affect on the actual financial performance of the school. Like many businesses, expenses have been increasing at a more rapid pace than revenues over the past 3 - 4 years.

The school expected attendance to pick up more quickly for football and it has not. Nobody realized just how bad a hiring Greg Robinson really was. This has left football revenue lagging.

The expense of new facilities/upgrades is not cheap and the university has limited unrestricted liquid assets to contribute at this time. They are trying to hold off expenditures until they see the cash from the ACC move rather than borrow now in the capital markets.

Bottom line, the university is currently not in a financial position to commit a large amount of money to athletics, especially football which requires a large commitment. That being said, coach Marrone thought things would be different by now when he signed on to the job and knows there is not a quick fix without the commitment from the school and fanbase/contributors. No blame to the board of trustees or the athletic department, just plain simple math (or finance). My guess, we are much closer to a league of BC, Uconn, army, navy (complete guesses on the schools but you get the idea) etc for football than we are to a league playing for the BCS on an annual basis. Hoops would be fine but football is a complete different monster to handle.

Again, no inside info just my thoughts. Many people think SU has unlimited funds but it does not. Compared to many other schools, its endowment (not even one of the largest in New York State, think Cornell, U of Rochester) is much smaller than most. Like any business they need to allocate capital where necessary to support their core mission. Things were much different in 2007 - 2008 before the financial crisis. The impact is felt in areas beyond what many people think.

Well, maybe they shouldn't have bought up so damn much real estate to build more "Centers For Human Excellence" or whatever the hell a few of these buildings are called. The sports teams are a very large part of your public brand. Applications by students skyrocketed after the 2003 championship in hoops.

 

[GoSU96]

a couple of quick guesses/comments.

SU is a relatively small private school. NCAA football is basically dominated (except for Note Dame) by large state schools with much deeper pockets than SU. The small private schools (see Vanderbilt this year) can have "good" years but the long term, big time programs represent mostly large, state institutions.

The university has "invested" in a lot of real estate in the city of Syracuse over the past 8 - 10 years. Right or wrong this uses liquid assets and also adds overheads that may or may not be recovered. My guess is much of this is off the balance sheet of the university. I use "investments" very loosely here.

The balance sheet for public disclosure does not show the full financial portrait of the university. This is not to deceive but rather that the off balance sheet activity has grown significantly and would have an adverse affect on the actual financial performance of the school. Like many businesses, expenses have been increasing at a more rapid pace than revenues over the past 3 - 4 years.

The school expected attendance to pick up more quickly for football and it has not. Nobody realized just how bad a hiring Greg Robinson really was. This has left football revenue lagging.

The expense of new facilities/upgrades is not cheap and the university has limited unrestricted liquid assets to contribute at this time. They are trying to hold off expenditures until they see the cash from the ACC move rather than borrow now in the capital markets.

Bottom line, the university is currently not in a financial position to commit a large amount of money to athletics, especially football which requires a large commitment. That being said, coach Marrone thought things would be different by now when he signed on to the job and knows there is not a quick fix without the commitment from the school and fanbase/contributors. No blame to the board of trustees or the athletic department, just plain simple math (or finance). My guess, we are much closer to a league of BC, Uconn, army, navy (complete guesses on the schools but you get the idea) etc for football than we are to a league playing for the BCS on an annual basis. Hoops would be fine but football is a complete different monster to handle.

Again, no inside info just my thoughts. Many people think SU has unlimited funds but it does not. Compared to many other schools, its endowment (not even one of the largest in New York State, think Cornell, U of Rochester) is much smaller than most. Like any business they need to allocate capital where necessary to support their core mission. Things were much different in 2007 - 2008 before the financial crisis. The impact is felt in areas beyond what many people think.

It's reporting to the Department of Education says something different.

 

[GoSU96]

Exactly. It's gone on WAY too long. He's interviewing for every possible job. And if I read correctly that he interviewed for the Wisconsin job during the season, then he's gone. And frankly, I'm disappointed, with us right on the cusp of a very big move to the ACC. Kind of a self-centered move by Doug right now. It's not like he finished the job he signed up for, by a long shot. Would it have killed him to see the transition through to the ACC?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Stop with the small private school crap. Syracuse is the same size as Georgia Tech, Clemson and Virginia. Rice is a small private school. Wake Forest is a small private school. Syracuse University is a private university with a billion dollar endowment. It can certainly compete in the ACC if the school's administration really wants to.

 

[rrlbees]

Well, maybe they shouldn't have bought up so damn much real estate to build more "Centers For Human Excellence" or whatever the hell a few of these buildings are called. The sports teams are a very large part of your public brand. Applications by students skyrocketed after the 2003 championship in hoops.

There was a capital campaign for that.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[orangepassion]

I was responding to Mark's comment that it is all about $ for him and his staff. I can buy the staff argument and believe there is a component of that, but I think he would actually stay here for less if he had the commitment he needs to compete in the ACC.

As for this whole mess, I'm working this story as hard as I possibly can and must confess I am as much in the dark as all of you. My sources have all gone silent . . . and I mean silent. I have no idea which way this will go but am more nervous than I was 24 hours ago. When I say nervous I mean as a season ticket-holder. I swear, though, I have zero idea how this will end. I thought I had a decent idea 48 hours ago but am clueless now.

Thanks Dave. Hope this gets resolved soon for everyone's sanity, especially the players and recruits. Can't imagine what's going through their mind right now.

 

[rrlbees]

Well I agree facilities commitment and higher pay for his staff are probably tops on his list...but I'm pretty sure Doug wouldn't mind a raise too.

For the 83rd time. It is not about pay or compensation. Facilities and donor/fan support.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

There was a capital campaign for that.

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Agreed. Where was the campaign for football facilities? I must have missed it, as others did.

 

[44PRIDE]

The expense of new facilities/upgrades is not cheap and the university has limited unrestricted liquid assets to contribute at this time. They are trying to hold off expenditures until they see the cash from the ACC move rather than borrow now in the capital markets.

I believe this is the core issue. The athletic department sees the windfall of money on the horizon from the ACC and wants to begin building now. The University is choosing not to borrow against the future ACC income.

The university is wrong.

 

[swish7]

I was responding to Mark's comment that it is all about $ for him and his staff. I can buy the staff argument and believe there is a component of that, but I think he would actually stay here for less if he had the commitment he needs to compete in the ACC.

As for this whole mess, I'm working this story as hard as I possibly can and must confess I am as much in the dark as all of you. My sources have all gone silent . . . and I mean silent. I have no idea which way this will go but am more nervous than I was 24 hours ago. When I say nervous I mean as a season ticket-holder. I swear, though, I have zero idea how this will end. I thought I had a decent idea 48 hours ago but am clueless now.

On one hand we have you, likely the most informed/researched person here, admitting they are in the dark.

And on the other, we have chest thumpers presenting opinion, conjecture, and theory, as if it were fact.

Dave, I really appreciate your honesty. It helps cut through the mound of BS.

 

[rrlbees]

There is one. It's still $1m short for the Manley upgrades they did.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[44PRIDE]

On one hand we have you, likely the most informed/researched person here, admitting they are in the dark.

And on the other, we have chest thumpers presenting opinion, conjecture, and theory, as if it were fact.

Dave, I really appreciate your honesty. It helps cut through the mound of BS.

This is an internet fanboard. What in the hell do you expect to find here? If you don't like the smell of cowshit, don't visit a farm.

 

[MartyCuse]

I was responding to Mark's comment that it is all about $ for him and his staff. I can buy the staff argument and believe there is a component of that, but I think he would actually stay here for less if he had the commitment he needs to compete in the ACC.

As for this whole mess, I'm working this story as hard as I possibly can and must confess I am as much in the dark as all of you. My sources have all gone silent . . . and I mean silent. I have no idea which way this will go but am more nervous than I was 24 hours ago. When I say nervous I mean as a season ticket-holder. I swear, though, I have zero idea how this will end. I thought I had a decent idea 48 hours ago but am clueless now.

Dave thank you for time and insight. I hope this is resolved soon. I think this is a very different situation than we are used to as SU fans. It has been a long time since we have had a coach move on because of talent rather than leaving because they were shown the door. JB has shown us loyalty like no other, and we have grown to accept that and not appreciate the fact that good coaches move on and don't always stay. It feels like we spent so long looking for a good one, we finally begin to trust and believe and it is ended before many of us believed or expected it to. I hope HCDM stays and grows with our program but if he doesn't I will continue to show up to the dome, hold down my piece of silver bench and cheer on the kids that came to SU to represent us on the field. Thanks again Dave! Go CUSE

 

[IthacaMatt]

For the 83rd time. It is not about pay or compensation. Facilities and donor/fan support.

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Fan support - (a) stop giving away our best home games; (b) the ACC league slate is MUCH more attractive to the average SU fan than the Big East opponents we've had since 2004.

We've only just begun winning again, and after last year's collapse and this year's slow start, it's no surprise that the attendance wasn't better. And if you go back to the year before that, when we last made a bowl, that season we had a terrible home record and won most of our games on the road.

So, if Doug is so bummed about attendance, he should have given it another couple seasons. It's hard to say the turnaround is complete and everyone in CNY should be "won back" by now. We've only just appeared to turn the corner, and now he's leaving at the first viable opportunity. I'm sorry, but that sucks for fans.

Donors - that's the Doctor's job. It beats the hell out of me why we haven't gotten any significant donations out of our NFL alumni. Don't they give a damn about the alma mater that helped them make their living?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I believe this is the core issue. The athletic department sees the windfall of money on the horizon from the ACC and wants to begin building now. The University is choosing not to borrow against the future ACC income.

The university is wrong.

That appears to be it in a nutshell.

 

[MassOrange]

So we are currently down $4m for Melo, and $1m for Manley?

Therefore in need of $5 million before starting on new training facilities, etc.

Paging Mr Freeney.

 

[brandokc]

Fan support - (a) stop giving away our best home games; (b) the ACC league slate is MUCH more attractive to the average SU fan that the Big East opponents we've had since 2004. We've only just begun winning again, and after last year's collapse and this year's slow start, it's no surprise that the attendance wasn't better. And if you go back to the year before that, when we last made a bowl, that season we had a terrible home record and won most of our games on the road.

So, if Doug is so bummed about attendance, he should have given it another couple seasons. It's hard to say the turnaround is complete and everyone in CNY should be "won back" by now. We've only just appeared to turn the corner, and now he's leaving at the first viable opportunity. I'm sorry, but that sucks for fans.

Donors - that's the Doctor's job. It beats the hell out of me why we haven't gotten any significant donations out of our NFL alumni. Don't they give a damn about the alma mater that helped them make their living?

I wonder if the NFL Alumni piece has anything to do with the rumors as to the treatment of former players?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[IthacaMatt]

Fan support - (a) stop giving away our best home games; (b) the ACC league slate is MUCH more attractive to the average SU fan than the Big East opponents we've had since 2004. Would we have sold 5,000 more season tickets if we had the USC game in the Dome? Could we have won that game, with a rabid Dome crowd? USC wasn't world beaters this year; that could have been a historic win. But the Doctor sees the home fans as too minor league for the team he wants them to support. That's the message.

We've only just begun winning again, and after last year's collapse and this year's slow start, it's no surprise that the attendance wasn't better. And if you go back to the year before that, when we last made a bowl, that season we had a terrible home record and won most of our games on the road.

So, if Doug is so bummed about attendance, he should have given it another couple seasons. It's hard to say the turnaround is complete and everyone in CNY should be "won back" by now. We've only just appeared to turn the corner, and now he's leaving at the first viable opportunity. I'm sorry, but that sucks for fans.

Donors - that's the Doctor's job. It beats the hell out of me why we haven't gotten any significant donations out of our NFL alumni. Don't they give a damn about the alma mater that helped them make their living?