Stall Ball

[anomander]

it's funny how everyone wants to gripe and complain about something JB has been doing forever. There is a reason why he does it. IT WORKS!!! Sure it didn't work today, but if your guards make ft's like they are supposed to this game is on ice and everyone is happy again. Look back and tell me just how many times "stall ball" has actually cost us a W. Sure it isn't pretty, and is actually pretty frustrating, but once again it works. Being up 6 with 4 minutes to go you are limiting the other teams possessions basically in half, and counting on your play makers to make plays. We basically only run a ball screen offense so it's not like it is inhibiting our offense from getting set up, it just happened today that we didn't make plays. Sure he could have had the ball in Brandon's hand especially since he single handily gave us the lead, but that was Jim's choice. Plain and simple you make a play or 2, make you ft's and stall ball works almost all of the time. Plus you better get used to it because he isn't changing it.

 

[KingOtis]

I was going to say, "Another 'stall ball' thread?" But it's good to see someone being positive about the strategy for a change.

It's like the prevent defense in football. People love to say, "It prevents you from winning," but it's actually a very effective strategy. The problem is that most people only remember when it doesn't work.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

you know why it works? because if you have a decent size lead with under six minutes to play, you usually win no matter how you play it out. there are so many factors that have to be accounted for that to just automatically employ the strategy down the stretch is sort of lazy.

we finally were executing on offense after a long fg drought. triche hit a couple , CJ had a nice jumper on the baseline..nova was literally wilting before our very eyes. then it happened...the four point swing where our all american point guard , after stalling for much of the shot clock, dribbled out of control, lost the ball, and nova went the lenght of the court in about two seconds..instead of an 8 pt lead, it was a 4 pt lead and that was the beginning of the end.

if you are going to stall, you are better off just letting the clock run out and handing nova the ball in a dead ball situation

 

[anomander]

it forces the other team to basically be perfect down the stretch, as well as needing a little help (missed ft's) from our end.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

it forces the other team to basically be perfect down the stretch, as well as needing a little help (missed ft's) from our end.

Nova was so far from perfect down the stretch though. Stall ball makes sense within certain contraints. 6 pt lead with nearly 4 minutes to go is just not a big enough lead to take the air out of the ball. once you take the air out, its almost impossible to pump it back in.

 

[NineOneSeven]

People aren't complaining about the strategy (most people). People are questioning why we executed it in the manner we did, i.e. give Triche the ball.

Triche's handle is much, much better than MCW. MCW has a paul harris syndrome of flailing his body when he gets bumped trying to draw a foul. MCW is 6'6" but only 185. We need Triche with the ball in the end because 1) he got us there and is our leader and 2) he can finish in traffic with his strength.

 

[BayonneOrange]

Frustrating reading so many people not understand the concept of slowing the game down and limiting possessions at the end of the game.

I thought we had a more knowledgeable fan base. Guess not.

Limiting possessions at the end of games is a very, very effective way of closing out close games. In no way, I repeat, in no way did this cost us today's game. Missing critical, end of game FTs cost us this game, along with a miracle 3 at the end of regulation.

That's it in a nutshell. Coach has been using this since pretty much day one. It works, it worked today. Just have to make those damn FTs.

 

[anomander]

People aren't complaining about the strategy (most people). People are questioning why we executed it in the manner we did, i.e. give Triche the ball.

Triche's handle is much, much better than MCW. MCW has a paul harris syndrome of flailing his body when he gets bumped trying to draw a foul. MCW is 6'6" but only 185. We need Triche with the ball in the end because 1) he got us there and is our leader and 2) he can finish in traffic with his strength.

i agree with you. i was calling for BT to have the ball as well, especially since he just put the team on his back to get us the lead. but then i thought about it. why would JB take the ball out of the hands of his all-american pg, who leads the country in assists, and just came through in the clutch in the past 2 games?

basically happens, we played the absolute worst game in a long long time, and we still almost gutted out a tough road win. were fine it happens, and hopefully we learned from it

oh ya make your free throws, maybe Jim lost a little confidence in BT? He did say he thought BT should be shooting better from the line after last game. but mcw has missed his share too, so who knows?

 

[KingOtis]

you know why it works? because if you have a decent size lead with under six minutes to play, you usually win no matter how you play it out. there are so many factors that have to be accounted for that to just automatically employ the strategy down the stretch is sort of lazy.

That couldn't be farther from the truth. What's lazy is your argument IMO.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

That couldn't be farther from the truth. What's lazy is your argument IMO.

whats lazy is your argument against my argument..which was nothing more than "i dont agree"

well done

 

[NineOneSeven]

i agree with you. i was calling for BT to have the ball as well, especially since he just put the team on his back to get us the lead. but then i thought about it. why would JB take the ball out of the hands of his all-american pg, who leads the country in assists, and just came through in the clutch in the past 2 games?

basically happens, we played the absolute worst game in a long long time, and we still almost gutted out a tough road win. were fine it happens, and hopefully we learned from it

oh ya make your free throws, maybe Jim lost a little confidence in BT? He did say he thought BT should be shooting better from the line after last game. but mcw has missed his share too, so who knows?

If anyone just saw the highlights from our game at halftime of this Kansas game you saw this (all under three minutes left):

1) MCW tripping and turning it over leading to a layup by nova when we were up 61-55 (second biggest play of the game)

2) MCW getting in the lane and forcing a pass to DC for a turnover

3) MCW driving to the rack, getting bumped, and forcing a tough runner up. Again, there's a reason MCW doesn't finish well around the rack and it's because he, at this point, can't handle the physicality. The best finishers can absorb contact with their body, but keep the ball in the same spot with their hands regardless. Tony Parker is incredible at this, and I wouldn't call him a physical specimen

4) MCW missing a FT at the end of the game. Tough miss, and no question he was fatigued. I'm starting to want the ball in Fair/Grant's hands at the end in a FT shooting contest because our guards are just too sporadic right now, especially when both are playing 40 minutes a game

Point is, you expect your big name player to make big plays down the stretch. As I've mentioned before, MCW has the confidence to do it (Louisville, Cincy), but there are times where this will be the result (Temple, Nova).

Seeing that last rebound by Nova is even more frustrating. CJ, great rebounder, but sometimes doesn't get low and box out like a forward in a zone needs to.

 

[Marsh01]

1) MCW tripping and turning it over leading to a layup by nova when we were up 61-55 (second biggest play of the game)

This play was massive. Could have basically put the game away with a basket there. I swore really loud when that play happened.

 

[anomander]

If anyone just saw the highlights from our game at halftime of this Kansas game you saw this (all under three minutes left):



Seeing that last rebound by Nova is even more frustrating. CJ, great rebounder, but sometimes doesn't get low and box out like a forward in a zone needs to.

at the D1 level they don't teach you to box out. they actually say just go up and get the ball, that is why we recruit long athletes. having 3 guards in at that time is what killed us

 

[NineOneSeven]

at the D1 level they don't teach you to box out. they actually say just go up and get the ball, that is why we recruit long athletes. having 3 guards in at that time is what killed us

 

[KingOtis]

whats lazy is your argument against my argument..which was nothing more than "i dont agree"

well done

Then you simply don't agree with JB's strategy. But you have nothing to back up your argument other than the not-so-warm-and-fuzzy feeling it gives you.

If you want better counterpoints, make better points.

 

[BayonneOrange]

at the D1 level they don't teach you to box out. they actually say just go up and get the ball, that is why we recruit long athletes. having 3 guards in at that time is what killed us

Huh?? smh

 

[anomander]

Huh?? smh

fact

 

[BayonneOrange]

fact

I was at at least a half dozen D1 program's practices this season, and each one of them practiced boxing out. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM!!!

Don't state fact unless you know what you are talking about.

 

[anomander]

I was at at least a half dozen D1 program's practices this season, and each one of them practiced boxing out. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM!!!

Don't state fact unless you know what you are talking about.

i played basketball i can guarantee you a majority of the coaches aren't teaching boxing out just like they don't teach follow your shot. they want their athletes going up after the basketball. watch our guys next time they don't exactly box out, they can get their body on guys sometimes, but the majority of the time they are going to get the ball

 

[pearl31]

whoa you played basketball?!

 

[BayonneOrange]

i played basketball i can guarantee you a majority of the coaches aren't teaching boxing out just like they don't teach follow your shot. they want their athletes going up after the basketball. watch our guys next time they don't exactly box out, they can get their body on guys sometimes, but the majority of the time they are going to get the ball

How can you state fact and guarantee when you are flat out wrong? Half a dozen programs I've seen with my own 2 eyes practice putting a body on body. And two of those programs are top 10 programs.

And I believe almost everyone on this board played ball at some point. So what does it mean that you played ball? Supposed to give you more cred?

 

[anomander]

How can you state fact and guarantee when you are flat out wrong? Half a dozen programs I've seen with my own 2 eyes practice putting a body on body. And two of those programs are top 10 programs.

And I believe almost everyone on this board played ball at some point. So what does it mean that you played ball? Supposed to give you more cred?

not at all just going by what our big guys were taught. and if you watch syracuse play they don't particularly box out. sure guards get box out big guys, but our big guys are supposed to rebound area's, and are told to go get the ball don't worry as much about boxing out if you have position

 

[BayonneOrange]

not at all just going by what our big guys were taught. and if you watch syracuse play they don't particularly box out. sure guards get box out big guys, but our big guys are supposed to rebound area's, and are told to go get the ball don't worry as much about boxing out if you have position

Who's our guys? Your rec team? High school team? If you're talking about Coach Boeheim's guys, you are wrong. Period.

 

[rrlbees]

not at all just going by what our big guys were taught. and if you watch syracuse play they don't particularly box out. sure guards get box out big guys, but our big guys are supposed to rebound area's, and are told to go get the ball don't worry as much about boxing out if you have position

Yea, ours guys because we play zone are told to go get the ball more so than boxing out. But your initial post on this subject was that it is not taught at the D1 level. That is completely false.

Sent using my Commodore 64 on Tapatalk 5.3

 

[NineOneSeven]

not at all just going by what our big guys were taught. and if you watch syracuse play they don't particularly box out. sure guards get box out big guys, but our big guys are supposed to rebound area's, and are told to go get the ball don't worry as much about boxing out if you have position

In a zone you you need to work extra hard to box out because there isn't always a man right next to you. In man defense, you are right there to put a body on your opponent when the shot goes up. In zone, it is about finding the closest player and using your body. CJ didn't do that on the last possession.