Talked with a Big East Insider

[OrangeXtreme]

generally speaking, a tv channel gets half their revenue from subscriptions and half their revenue from ad sales. with NBCSN in its early stages they are probably just looking for anything to attract a few eyeballs right now and get the awareness out there that NBCSN exists (most people probably don't). once people start watching NBCSN they are probably counting on a snowball effect (people keep flipping back and more new eyeballs) and willing to dump a lot of money into it right now as an investment knowing how much ESPN currently makes from subscriptions and ad sales. subcribers will start demanding NBCSN and they will be able to negotiate more for ad sales and subscription revenue. also, one of the biggest points of leverage is NBC (comcast/universal i believe) will package all of their channels together and tell the tv providers to take it or leave it, so they will be able to get a premium for all their channels since tv provider is willing to risk making their subscribers upset for not offering NBC or whatever channel that might be.

NBCSN used to be Versus, and before that it was the Outdoor Life Network. It's been carried on basic cable across the country for years already.

 

[mscanlo]

NBCSN used to be Versus, and before that it was the Outdoor Life Network. It's been carried on basic cable across the country for years already.

yeah, but it has been talked about a lot in the industry that NBC is finally making the push to try and compete with ESPN, thus the rebranding of Versus and trying to secure prime sporting events. research showed half of tv viewers had never heard of the Versus channel, thus the rebranding.

CBS is starting to make the same push.

many big time sports are locked up for years so NBC and CBS can only chip away slowly.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Time Warner dropped MSG for over a month during NBA and NHL season when MSG wanted an increase.

NBC better not push too hard.

 

[mscanlo]

Time Warner dropped MSG for over a month during NBA and NHL season when MSG wanted an increase.

NBC better not push too hard.

i am not referring to smaller channels trying to leverage their sole channel. i am not surprised Time Warner told MSG to take a hike. how many subscribers are going to change because of MSG? i am referring to package deals of very popular channels. NBC can package the deal with channels such as NBC, NBCSports, MSNBC, USA Network, Bravo, The Weather Channel, etc. You start missing some of those channels and people will switch. Disney and Fox are the same way. Time Warner to some extent as well

anyways, we are a long way away when NBC sports and NBC have the opportunity to push the providers. right now they are just looking for sticky eyeballs to build their brand. with versus, you never know what you could expect (bull riding, cycling, MMA, one of my favs in beach volleyball), and as i mentioned, most people didn't even know it existed. NBCSN has a good opportunity in front of them with the olympics, but they need some big time sports to create repeat customers. unfortunately, all these deals are done in long term contracts so it takes a while for them to come up for negotiation again

 

[cto]

Under its GE ownership, NBC was decreasingly involved in sports because GE did not want to pay the ever-escalalting price tag. A decade ago, they had the NFL on Sunday afternoon, NBA basketball, college football, college basketball and lots of other stuff. At the moment, all they have is the Olympics, ND football, a little golf and tennis, one NFL game a week, the NHL playoffs. and a little horse racing. Comcast, on the other hand, apparently wants to be a player in sports. Time will tell.

 

[mscanlo]

Under its GE ownership, NBC was decreasingly involved in sports because GE did not want to pay the ever-escalalting price tag. A decade ago, they had the NFL on Sunday afternoon, NBA basketball, college football, college basketball and lots of other stuff. At the moment, all they have is the Olympics, ND football, a little golf and tennis, one NFL game a week, the NHL playoffs. and a little horse racing. Comcast, on the other hand, apparently wants to be a player in sports. Time will tell.

very true, however, and no offense, GE never really put enough focus on NBC Sports to maximize their return. GE is known for hundreds of acquisitions outside their core competency, only to divest most of them later on, usually at a lower price tag than originally purchased

 

[Faegan]

very true, however, and no offense, GE never really put enough focus on NBC Sports to maximize their return. GE is known for hundreds of acquisitions outside their core competency, only to divest most of them later on, usually at a lower price tag than originally purchased

I worked at NBC, and left with the impression that it was a place of ladder climbing with little regard for how that impacted the company. That was a chasm that never seemed to be addressed. I make friends everywhere, and made only 1 or 2 at NBC. Convinced me to work for myself forever.

 

[orange79]

Well, none of us knows exactly what happened last year.

I certainly wouldn't presume to blame the Rutgers AD - I just don't know.

But, I can tell you that the idea that the AD might be the next BE Commissioner was not even suggested by the guy I spoke to tonight.

All I know is that more than one article at the time mentioned that Pernetti was one of the few who led the charge to turn down the offer and take it to the open market, based on his TV background. Who knows, maybe it all started with one statement, as many 'rumors' do. All I know, from my vantage point far away from the action in my La-Z-Boy, it seems a huge mistake not to have taken that deal. If the BE had taken it, at least 2 of the schools who left would probably still be in the BE. And SDST, Boise, etc. would be where they belong (and that's not in the BE).

 

[OrangePA]

Do you have any idea how small the fan bases of the SMU's and UCF's and SDSU's of the world are? None of those teams move the meter in any of their respective markets. That's one of the reasons why the BE Conference doesn't stand a chance to be a success in the long term. No flagships, no football tradition, no fan bases. Its doomed to fail.

Now their only potential saving grace in the short term is (a) the existence of NBC Sports Network and (b) their partnership with ND. I think they actually do have a shot at getting a pretty decent deal, (maybe 10mill/team for example) because NBCSN simply needs inventory and are willing to overpay to do so. Using ND as the anchor and having some JV games as lead ins is a good idea and the best they can hope for.

That said, in the long term, it won't matter. A league can not flourish as long as its teams are looking for exits. That will continue to be the case for at least Louisville, Cincy, Uconn, and Rutgers. That's just reality. Those 4 teams are going to be looking to make the jump to the big leagues. The Big East is no longer one of them (as DeLoss Dodds mentioned quite candidly today).

Well, I remember when SMU was winning SW Conference Championships - a good friend of mine lived in Dallas at the time and actually lived near the SMU campus.

SMU was the hot team in Dallas at that time - wildly popular - they played their home games in Texas Stadium for gosh sakes.

And the Mustangs are on their way back.

With some success and a chance to compete nationally there is reason to believe that Dallas will once again embrace the program.

With BE exposure and a chance to once again compete nationally, the University of Houston - a program with a decent football pedigree - and another former SW Conference Champion - could very well draw attention.

My friend with the BE connections mentioned to me that he went to a UCF bowl game and was impressed by the fan turn-out and indicated that Orlando is a very good market for that team.

I guess I just can't be as certain as you are about the eventual demise of the BE. As far as I can tell you have no inside information - have not spoken to those who are involved in the process and seem hopeful that the league will fail.

Clearly you have your opinion and clearly the conventional wisdom on this board says that you're right.

But based on what I have been told - by people who know the business fairly well - the BE has a chance.

We'll see.

 

[OrangePA]

Sorry OrangePA, but I have lived in Texas for 20 years now (3 in Houston), but other than Texas, Texas A&M, and to a lesser degree Texas Tech (primarily in West Texas) the other Texas universities barely matter. Even in Houston, & to a lesser extent Dallas/Ft. Worth; LSU & Arkansas have huge followings that dwarf Houston & SMU.

But before you were in Texas - when Houston and SMU competed in the SW Conference - they had strong followings.

Both have great football pedigrees.

With the ability to compete nationally, both can become players again.

Sorry, but I disagree with your premise - that fan interest is cast in stone. That's just not true.

I recall very clearly when Texas A&M and Tech were pretty mediocre programs.

Things change.

 

[OrangePA]

The thing is the BE teams are not even close to the #1 CFB teams in their market. That is why it would be ridiculous for a network to over pay for the content. You are from the Philly area correct? How many people follow Temple FB? Who do they follow? How often did you follo Temple last year? It is great that they are in the Philly market but just being in a large market doesn't mean the eyeballs are watching it.

A lot of the BE schools aren't even Top 3 in their given markets:

RU vs ND, PSU, B1G, SEC - NYC
UConn - Hartford
Temple vs PSU, ND - Philly
USF vs Fla, FSU, Miami - Tampa
UCF vs Fla, FSU, Miami - Orlando
SD St vs USC - San Diego
Cincy vs Ohio St - Cincinnati
Navy vs MD, WV, VT, UVA - Baltimore/DC
Memphis vs Tenn - Memphis
TCU vs Texas, A&M, OU - Dallas
Houston vs Texas, A&M, Baylor - Houston
Boise - Boise
Louisville - Louisville

UConn, Boise, and Louisville are the only schools that carry their markets and they are the small markets.

Do you have data or are you speculating?

I do live in Philly.

I can tell you that interest in Temple football is increasing.

I can also tell you that Philly loves a winner and will follow Temple more and more if the Owls continue to compete nationally.

 

[tipphill]

I'm not sure who your are targeting.

If you are talking about the Rutgers guy, I really can't answer for him - I know nothing about the guy.

I have no idea what he did or did not do in that negotiation.

All I can tell you is that the guy I spoke to says that the RU AD was at one time, the president of college sports for CBS and knows what he is doing.

The guy I spoke to gave me no indication that the BE was planning to hire the RU AD as Commissioner - really just the opposite - he seemed to suggest that the process is underway and not necessarily close to completion.

that is why he was hired at ru, and is also an alum.

 

[arbitragegls]

Good discussion. First, I believe that the turn down of the BE conference contract last year was driven by two sources:
a. Notre Dame that has a NBC contract
b. the bball only schools siding with Notre Dame who had the chairman of TV negotiating committee
c. Rutgirls joining with ND to defeat proposal

and second, was fact that by waiting it becomes a competitive bid including ESPN and others...including NBC (did Notre Dame know something that others did not that NBC would be starting a Sportsnetwork?) By waiting the BE fell into a good situation that the ACC did not have...right to negotiate against ESPN. This fact will drive contract $$$ up presuming the BE holds together.

What becomes important to anyone who gets the BE contract, is that you will have different time zones to broadcast games...by the time all the East coast games are over the West coast will be starting their games...that is quite an interesting proposition having lived in Portland OR for a while it timing of games plays an important role on what you do with your TV time.

Bottom line, if BE gets a contract of $10m per all sports team they will have gotten a good deal and NBC-which I predict will be the winning bid--will get lots of TV time for sport content. Overall BE gets lucky if not poached again soon.

 

[Noexcuse]

Schools like UCF, SMU, Houston, SDSU etc. may very well rise to the occasion and garner fan interest in their respective markets. I think the problem most people have is that the Big East is in full blown survival mode and is willing to pull in any team with a beating heart at this point with no real regard to traditional rivalries or historic significance to eastern football or basketball. Both the football and basketball product will be diluted diluted and there will be a lot of matchups in both sports that are just not going to be that interesting. If NBC or whoever wants to pay for it, well that's great for the Big East.

 

[SU2NASA]

"NBC/Comcast wants the contract badly - the network wants to present BE football from 12 noon to 12 midnight."

Sounds like heaven on earth. Just think. They can run "encore presentations" from 12 midnight to 12 noon and...voila! You've got the Big East 24/7.

I can't wait.

Coming up next, SMU at Rutgers!

 

[kingottoiii]

Do you have data or are you speculating?

I do live in Philly.

I can tell you that interest in Temple football is increasing.

I can also tell you that Philly loves a winner and will follow Temple more and more if the Owls continue to compete nationally.

See that is what you do not get. Being in the BE is not competing nationally. Temple can go 10-2 every year and Philly won't get behind them because the BE is minor league CFB. The same goes for all the other teams/markets you mention. Could Dallas get behind SMU again? Sure if SMU were in the B12. But being in the BE and competing against USF isn't going to do it for Dallas.

 

[longtimefan]

But before you were in Texas - when Houston and SMU competed in the SW Conference - they had strong followings.

Both have great football pedigrees.

With the ability to compete nationally, both can become players again.

Sorry, but I disagree with your premise - that fan interest is cast in stone. That's just not true.

I recall very clearly when Texas A&M and Tech were pretty mediocre programs.

Things change.

You've made some interesting points.

But I think you missed here. I don't see programs such as Houston and SMU becoming players again. The fan interest may not be cast in stone, but it is very inflexible. The whole thrust of realignment, 4 X 16, breaking away from the NCAA, etc. is to lock the current power structure in place as much as the power elite are able to. This is not 1980, when Miami launched themselves into that elite. Or 1990, when VTech made their move. The teams at the very top (e.g., Texas) don't want to deal with any interlopers.

 

[Townie72]

Do you have data or are you speculating?

I do live in Philly.

I can tell you that interest in Temple football is increasing.

I can also tell you that Philly loves a winner and will follow Temple more and more if the Owls continue to compete nationally.

You appear to be guilty of the same thing you are railing against by overstating the case for the NNBE as the detractors seem to be (to you) overstating the case against it.

I have been to Temple games vs. SU on the Vet played in front of 7,000.

So a huge increase in Temple's fan base (doubling) adds another 7.000 fans? Is it increasing? Yes. Is it significant? No.

I'm not so sure that in the years when Temple's basketball program has been very good that there's been a huge amount of local support/interest. Same with Villanova and St Joe's. These teams appear to have a core of fans, but support outside of these people is weak. My trips to watch the Big 5 games in the Palestra as a young man showed me how balkanized Philly is.

Philadelphia, to me, is the most pro-oriented city in the country. Maybe because it has lacked a sustained college winner. Maybe because it has so many schools. Here in DC, MD, UVA and VT have significant support because they have so many alumni. Here in DC they are nuts about the Redskins, but there is enough residual interest in college sports to give decent support to the college teams when they are good. In Philly it appears that the Iggles, 76er, Phillies and Flyers take all the available oxygen.

Seems to me you have a pretty weak case.

The history of conferences like the Metro and C-USA is pretty clear. The New. New Big East resembles these conference more than a little.

Will history not repeat itself? Will their be a sparking and significant growth of interest in the football teams of Temple, Rutgers, SMU, Houston, USF, UCF, etc?? Anything is possible. But I don't like the odds.

 

[Townie72]

Coming up next, SMU at Rutgers!

That announcement will trigger thoughts all across the viewing public, including:

Where's that remote control?

What else is on?

Wow. look at all those empty seats.

Maybe I ought to mow the lawn.

Perhaps, I should run down to the store.

Is it Wednesday night already?

 

[44cuse]

Sorry OrangePA, but I have lived in Texas for 20 years now (3 in Houston), but other than Texas, Texas A&M, and to a lesser degree Texas Tech (primarily in West Texas) the other Texas universities barely matter. Even in Houston, & to a lesser extent Dallas/Ft. Worth; LSU & Arkansas have huge followings that dwarf Houston & SMU.

Sometimes it's useful to have a broader perspective than just the NE.

44cuse

 

[OrangePA]

See that is what you do not get. Being in the BE is not competing nationally. Temple can go 10-2 every year and Philly won't get behind them because the BE is minor league CFB. The same goes for all the other teams/markets you mention. Could Dallas get behind SMU again? Sure if SMU were in the B12. But being in the BE and competing against USF isn't going to do it for Dallas.

No.

You dont get it.

Like it or not the does compete nationally.

WVU beat a good Clemson team in the Orange Bowl.

Having the chance to play on that stage is national and very appealing.

I can assure you that if Temple goes to the Orange Bowl Philly will get interested.

 

[gmoney44]

I recall very clearly when Texas A&M and Tech were pretty mediocre programs.

Both of these teams have always had a good following even when they were mediocre. A&M is big time when it comes to fan support.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[OrangePA]

That announcement will trigger thoughts all across the viewing public, including:

Where's that remote control?

What else is on?

Wow. look at all those empty seats.

Maybe I ought to mow the lawn.

Perhaps, I should run down to the store.

Is it Wednesday night already?

So, what are saying?

That SU vs Rutgers or SI v whomever got people excited the last few years?

If Rutgers and SMU are undefeated and challenging for national success the game will draw.

I think you fail to recognize thst stability and success on the field have a lot to say about fan interest.

And if the BE teams develope - especially Rutgers - you'll watch.

Sorry about that.

 

[kingottoiii]

No.

You dont get it.

Like it or not the does compete nationally.

WVU beat a good Clemson team in the Orange Bowl.

Having the chance to play on that stage is national and very appealing.

I can assure you that if Temple goes to the Orange Bowl Philly will get interested.

Again you don't get it. There is no national stage anymore for the BE. There is no more Orange Bowl. There is no more BCS. The BE winner will likely end up in the Champs Sports Bowl. Sorry but that is NOT a national stage. The BE is minor league FB.

 

[Orangemen]

See that is what you do not get. Being in the BE is not competing nationally. Temple can go 10-2 every year and Philly won't get behind them because the BE is minor league CFB. The same goes for all the other teams/markets you mention. Could Dallas get behind SMU again? Sure if SMU were in the B12. But being in the BE and competing against USF isn't going to do it for Dallas.

I agree with this.

The ESPN 30 for 30 doc on SMU made this point pretty clearly. They stated that the old SWC really existed inside the boardrooms of Dallas and Houston. The alumni cared because it gave them one up on their co-workers when their teams were good.

SMU or Houston owning the BE won't earn any respect from Texas, TCU, Baylor, or A&M alumni who see the league as 2nd rate.

IMO, if SMU or Houston are not in the B12, they can win all they want, but they have a very hard ceiling as to how high they can go.