Tampering

[OttoinGrotto]

The end justifies the means.

I'm not advocating for that either.

But the situation right now is such that in order to get the student-athlete's proper value determined, tampering is happening.

This isn't the way I would have chosen for things to go down.

I see it as there were two injustices.

1, the NCAA wasn't permitting student-athlete's to benefit from their own identity, which in today's world of physical and digital realities, is something I consider a fundamental human right.

That needed to be fixed. NIL was the path.

2, the sit out penalty for student-athletes transferring was overly punitive relative to the freedom of movement granted to coaches. Yeah yeah yeah, the commitment is to the school, not the coach. Whatever. Student-athletes having their options limited to explore better situations for their competitive eligiblity and academic options needed to be fixed.

Had NIL come first, the 2nd injustice becomes a smaller problem. But it didn't. They changed the transfer eligibility rules first, and that opened Pandora's box.

Anyway, the greater point - the above injustices, bigger picture, matter a whole lot more than a coach like Hafley worrying about losing players.

Thus, tiny violin gif.

Lastly, one benefit other than players getting their value, is that coaches, at least some of them, are going to be a lot more accountable for being honest with players now. We know coaches lie to get croots. I remember the Dunkelberger family saying there were a load of unfulfilled promises made to their son, for example.

Gotta be real careful about what you say and what you mean in this bold new world.

 

[kcsu]

I wish teams would tamper with some of our punters

 

[dan7800]

Check out your state's laws that were enacted to the college admissions scandal. Consider how this applies to "tampering".

 

[Scooch]

Let’s be real, the reason why coaches aren’t ratting out those who tamper with their players is because those coaches do the same with other players. I’m sure BC has had G5 kids portal in to them. Do we believe no BC assistant had contact with them prior to their portal entry?

When it comes to college football it’s fair to assume that everyone is bending the rules to get an advantage. Been that way forever.

 

[NJCuse97]

I'm not advocating for that either.

But the situation right now is such that in order to get the student-athlete's proper value determined, tampering is happening.

This isn't the way I would have chosen for things to go down.

I see it as there were two injustices.

1, the NCAA wasn't permitting student-athlete's to benefit from their own identity, which in today's world of physical and digital realities, is something I consider a fundamental human right.

That needed to be fixed. NIL was the path.

2, the sit out penalty for student-athletes transferring was overly punitive relative to the freedom of movement granted to coaches. Yeah yeah yeah, the commitment is to the school, not the coach. Whatever. Student-athletes having their options limited to explore better situations for their competitive eligiblity and academic options needed to be fixed.

Had NIL come first, the 2nd injustice becomes a smaller problem. But it didn't. They changed the transfer eligibility rules first, and that opened Pandora's box.

Anyway, the greater point - the above injustices, bigger picture, matter a whole lot more than a coach like Hafley worrying about losing players.

Thus, tiny violin gif.

Lastly, one benefit other than players getting their value, is that coaches, at least some of them, are going to be a lot more accountable for being honest with players now. We know coaches lie to get croots. I remember the Dunkelberger family saying there were a load of unfulfilled promises made to their son, for example.

Gotta be real careful about what you say and what you mean in this bold new world.

My concern is that it could all backfire on the athlete. NIL dollars may be a limited resource, especially at some smaller schools, and tampering could force those school’s collectives to overcompensate to keep, exposing others to a higher likelihood for an “NIL transfer”.

Worse is that this happens and the “home” school doesn’t step up but the athlete feels they have a higher worth and portals. The tampering team doesn’t step up, never really intended to, and the athlete is stranded in the portal.

This is a big boy game and it will get dirty.

 

[dollarbill44]

Option 1 should be to punch them in the face on the field.

If not possible, then out them publicly.

Everyone with integrity should band together and blackball these scrubby ass vultures.

I'm not sure which side is bigger.

 

[Orangezoo]

When it comes to tampering.. how do you isolate the difference between a coach and kid texting because they have a previous relationship through recruiting vs it being tampering? It's effectively how most of us operate in the business world where for one reason another reconnect which can turn into a conversation about changing jobs...

 

[upperdeck]

I'm not advocating for that either.

But the situation right now is such that in order to get the student-athlete's proper value determined, tampering is happening.

This isn't the way I would have chosen for things to go down.

I see it as there were two injustices.

1, the NCAA wasn't permitting student-athlete's to benefit from their own identity, which in today's world of physical and digital realities, is something I consider a fundamental human right.

That needed to be fixed. NIL was the path.

2, the sit out penalty for student-athletes transferring was overly punitive relative to the freedom of movement granted to coaches. Yeah yeah yeah, the commitment is to the school, not the coach. Whatever. Student-athletes having their options limited to explore better situations for their competitive eligiblity and academic options needed to be fixed.

Had NIL come first, the 2nd injustice becomes a smaller problem. But it didn't. They changed the transfer eligibility rules first, and that opened Pandora's box.

Anyway, the greater point - the above injustices, bigger picture, matter a whole lot more than a coach like Hafley worrying about losing players.

Thus, tiny violin gif.

Lastly, one benefit other than players getting their value, is that coaches, at least some of them, are going to be a lot more accountable for being honest with players now. We know coaches lie to get croots. I remember the Dunkelberger family saying there were a load of unfulfilled promises made to their son, for example.

Gotta be real careful about what you say and what you mean in this bold new world.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Let’s be real, the reason why coaches aren’t ratting out those who tamper with their players is because those coaches do the same with other players. I’m sure BC has had G5 kids portal in to them. Do we believe no BC assistant had contact with them prior to their portal entry?

When it comes to college football it’s fair to assume that everyone is bending the rules to get an advantage. Been that way forever.

Bingo. It’s just what degree of tampering. Some are more egregious and I’m sure that’s what bothers BC. But if a booster got them a big transfer before they were in the portal, they wouldn’t be complaining either. Put up or shut up.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Also a reminder how much Bruce pearl was despised for the coaching community to turn on him.

 

[upperdeck]

The big difference in this thing is that the kids are not being compensated for the value they have by the NIL.. If they sell shirts and make money thats compensation.. Being paid 3 mil to qb a team does not bring value to that NIL worth 3 million.. Most people do commercials because the company thinks there is some value to the that. Lebron makes 20 million in endorsements to make profits. NIL is for self serving gains of whoever pays the NIL and that was never really the intention but it always going to be the path.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

My concern is that it could all backfire on the athlete. NIL dollars may be a limited resource, especially at some smaller schools, and tampering could force those school’s collectives to overcompensate to keep, exposing others to a higher likelihood for an “NIL transfer”.

Worse is that this happens and the “home” school doesn’t step up but the athlete feels they have a higher worth and portals. The tampering team doesn’t step up, never really intended to, and the athlete is stranded in the portal.

This is a big boy game and it will get dirty.

Unfortunately I think you're right that it won't work out great for everyone and some folks will get burned along the way.

 

[Scooch]

The big difference in this thing is that the kids are not being compensated for the value they have by the NIL.. If they sell shirts and make money thats compensation.. Being paid 3 mil to qb a team does not bring value to that NIL worth 3 million.. Most people do commercials because the company thinks there is some value to the that. Lebron makes 20 million in endorsements to make profits. NIL is for self serving gains of whoever pays the NIL and that was never really the intention but it always going to be the path.

It’s indirect value, or value by proxy. It’s inefficient, but since colleges don’t want to admit that their athletes are “employees”, this is the path they’ve chosen.

There really needs to be a centralized leadership structure for college football, with a commissioner that is granted authority by the conferences. But that won’t ever happen because of their greed for money and power. What we have now is what happens when a market-based system is allowed to grow without guardrails. Always sounds great in theory, but in reality…

 

[elimunelson]

Let’s be real, the reason why coaches aren’t ratting out those who tamper with their players is because those coaches do the same with other players. I’m sure BC has had G5 kids portal in to them. Do we believe no BC assistant had contact with them prior to their portal entry?

When it comes to college football it’s fair to assume that everyone is bending the rules to get an advantage. Been that way forever.

Absolutely. Syracuse is tampering for sure with the big schools they see guys lingering on the bench.

I know for a fact Zay Flowers didn't stay for loyalty reasons. They had to match the NIL he was offered down south.

As i've said ad nauseum, I do not care. Do not care about NIL money going to these athletes. As a consumer it has ruined the sport for me because the investment in a team is literally year to year. If a player is very good at Syracuse the clock is running immediately if he's going to leave. It completely waters down the interest level for me now that it's essentially a pro sport with paid athletes. At least with the NFL, the salary cap restrictions and a CBA make it something with specific rules.

I'll continue to follow, will watch occasional games, but the overall enjoyment level since the unveiling of portal/NIL is 50% lower (at least)

 

[elimunelson]

It’s indirect value, or value by proxy. It’s inefficient, but since colleges don’t want to admit that their athletes are “employees”, this is the path they’ve chosen.

There really needs to be a centralized leadership structure for college football, with a commissioner that is granted authority by the conferences. But that won’t ever happen because of their greed for money and power. What we have now is what happens when a market-based system is allowed to grow without guardrails. Always sounds great in theory, but in reality…

Congress needs to act since this is interstate commerce sprinkled with a tax exempt status for colleges. Otherwise it's wheel spinning

 

[tep624]

My concern is that it could all backfire on the athlete. NIL dollars may be a limited resource, especially at some smaller schools, and tampering could force those school’s collectives to overcompensate to keep, exposing others to a higher likelihood for an “NIL transfer”.

Worse is that this happens and the “home” school doesn’t step up but the athlete feels they have a higher worth and portals. The tampering team doesn’t step up, never really intended to, and the athlete is stranded in the portal.

This is a big boy game and it will get dirty.

This system is unsustainable in it's current form. It's a very slippery slope when you start to turn off your customer base in a revenue driven sport. Yes a free for all is best for the high-end players in allowing them to get market value compensation, but for schools that aren't in the top 75% of the SEC or the B1G, you've basically created a system that has relegated those programs to being minor league feeder programs. The fans of about 15-20 schools are going to love this system and the rest aren't.

So yeah you've given financial freedom to the top 2-3% of FBS college football players, but I feel this will eventually lead to a complete reorganization of FBS as we know it and probably a reduction in the number of schools playing at the FBS level.

 

[tep624]

Absolutely. Syracuse is tampering for sure with the big schools they see guys lingering on the bench.

I know for a fact Zay Flowers didn't stay for loyalty reasons. They had to match the NIL he was offered down south.

As i've said ad nauseum, I do not care. Do not care about NIL money going to these athletes. As a consumer it has ruined the sport for me because the investment in a team is literally year to year. If a player is very good at Syracuse the clock is running immediately if he's going to leave. It completely waters down the interest level for me now that it's essentially a pro sport with paid athletes. At least with the NFL, the salary cap restrictions and a CBA make it something with specific rules.

I'll continue to follow, will watch occasional games, but the overall enjoyment level since the unveiling of portal/NIL is 50% lower (at least)

It was the right thing to do (NIL) that was done in the completely wrong way. There are a number of stakeholders here and it's not just the players.

 

[Scooch]

Congress needs to act since this is interstate commerce sprinkled with a tax exempt status for colleges. Otherwise it's wheel spinning

Yeah, I'm always leery of Congress getting involved for a variety of reasons. But at some point it may be inevitable. I think we're on the precipice given the outsized power that the SEC and B1G have garnered.

 

[Scooch]

Re: the diminishing interest some of you have cited... there is little evidence of that occurring in a meaningful way. TV and streaming audiences are quite healthy. Attendance is challenged but that's systemic across a variety of sports. And the looming 12-team playoff is almost certain to be a boon for intertest.

 

[Scooch]

but I feel this will eventually lead to a complete reorganization of FBS as we know it and probably a reduction in the number of schools playing at the FBS level.

I guess anything is possible. But there are a bunch of schools upgrading to FBS as we speak. And they're doing it with eyes wide open to the current NIL dynamic,

Sources: ASUN, WAC eye pairing for FBS jump

Members of the Atlantic Sun and WAC have agreed to form the foundation of a 10-member football-only conference with plans to join the FBS, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

The remaining football members of the Atlantic Sun and WAC have agreed to align to form the foundation of a 10-member football-only conference, sources told ESPN, with the intention of becoming the 11th FBS conference.

The schools that have signed on to join the league are WAC football members Stephen . Austin, Abilene Christian, Utah Tech, Southern Utah and Tarleton State and Atlantic Sun football members Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky, Central Arkansas and North Alabama.

UT Rio Grande Valley, which recently announced it is starting a program, is also expected to join in 2025, in that program's first season, as the league's 10th member.

The goal is for the conference to start playing in 2024 with nine members. Ambiguity looms around the process to becoming an FBS league, however. All the schools that play in the FCS will also need to go through a formal transition process.

 

[tep624]

I guess anything is possible. But there are a bunch of schools upgrading to FBS as we speak. And they're doing it with eyes wide open to the current NIL dynamic,

Sources: ASUN, WAC eye pairing for FBS jump

Members of the Atlantic Sun and WAC have agreed to form the foundation of a 10-member football-only conference with plans to join the FBS, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

The remaining football members of the Atlantic Sun and WAC have agreed to align to form the foundation of a 10-member football-only conference, sources told ESPN, with the intention of becoming the 11th FBS conference.

The schools that have signed on to join the league are WAC football members Stephen . Austin, Abilene Christian, Utah Tech, Southern Utah and Tarleton State and Atlantic Sun football members Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky, Central Arkansas and North Alabama.

UT Rio Grande Valley, which recently announced it is starting a program, is also expected to join in 2025, in that program's first season, as the league's 10th member.

The goal is for the conference to start playing in 2024 with nine members. Ambiguity looms around the process to becoming an FBS league, however. All the schools that play in the FCS will also need to go through a formal transition process.

I just don't see how that conference could generate any revenue of substance to justify being a FBS league. Central Arkansas and Tarleton State? Really?

 

[PhatOrange]

I guess anything is possible. But there are a bunch of schools upgrading to FBS as we speak. And they're doing it with eyes wide open to the current NIL dynamic,

Sources: ASUN, WAC eye pairing for FBS jump

Members of the Atlantic Sun and WAC have agreed to form the foundation of a 10-member football-only conference with plans to join the FBS, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

The remaining football members of the Atlantic Sun and WAC have agreed to align to form the foundation of a 10-member football-only conference, sources told ESPN, with the intention of becoming the 11th FBS conference.

The schools that have signed on to join the league are WAC football members Stephen . Austin, Abilene Christian, Utah Tech, Southern Utah and Tarleton State and Atlantic Sun football members Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky, Central Arkansas and North Alabama.

UT Rio Grande Valley, which recently announced it is starting a program, is also expected to join in 2025, in that program's first season, as the league's 10th member.

The goal is for the conference to start playing in 2024 with nine members. Ambiguity looms around the process to becoming an FBS league, however. All the schools that play in the FCS will also need to go through a formal transition process.

The only region that money seems to be a hurdle in is the Northeast.

 

[Chip]

Let’s be real, the reason why coaches aren’t ratting out those who tamper with their players is because those coaches do the same with other players. I’m sure BC has had G5 kids portal in to them. Do we believe no BC assistant had contact with them prior to their portal entry?

When it comes to college football it’s fair to assume that everyone is bending the rules to get an advantage. Been that way forever.

Agree, that's why I hate these guys and their whining.

Tampering is either legal or it's not. There's no more frowned upon in today's era.

If it's not, and you follow the rules, then call out those who aren't.

Otherwise, stop crying.

 

[tep624]

Re: the diminishing interest some of you have cited... there is little evidence of that occurring in a meaningful way. TV and streaming audiences are quite healthy. Attendance is challenged but that's systemic across a variety of sports. And the looming 12-team playoff is almost certain to be a boon for intertest.

Here's the issue I have with the 12 team playoff - the 6 at large bids give the upper level B1G and SEC schools even more incentive to NIL Tamper with and buy players from other P5 programs or even the G5. It's a be careful what you wish for scenario - yes it gives access to the playoff for 1 G5 a year and the other P5 conference champions, but you're only further incentivizing the dirty players to play dirty.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Re: the diminishing interest some of you have cited... there is little evidence of that occurring in a meaningful way. TV and streaming audiences are quite healthy. Attendance is challenged but that's systemic across a variety of sports. And the looming 12-team playoff is almost certain to be a boon for intertest.

Thank you for pointing this out. I've been skeptical that NIL is turning fans off in a broadly measurable way.

I'm not diminishing the folks that feel they're having less fun. That sucks. I'm just not sure the collective experience really shows up in the numbers.