Texas, Oklahoma reach out to the SEC

[Alsacs]

Aka what I said to Kaiser and he doesn’t get.

 

[Alsacs]

Most of the ND takes on this board remind me of the takes of 15 year old boys when a girl won’t date them.

“You’re so hot, I love you, please date me!… Why won’t you date me?! I hate you!... But you're still so hot, call me?”.

I honestly don’t want to date ND.
I am sick of the fact they just want to protect the status quo when that has an expiration date.

Let them go to the Big Ten. Their threat of leverage is their least desired outcome so let them enjoy it.

I really don’t want them in the ACC and they don’t either unless it’s completely necessary.
Last season told me that. If they had an ounce of sincerity with independence they would have sat out last season but they didn’t.

 

[Scotch]

The Notre Dame fans arrogance of independence is why at this point I don’t even care about the fact it could be our undoing as a major program.

It’s such sanctimonious bullchit. The fact they played last year in the ACC rather sit out the season showed that.
When given the choice of no season or conference football they chose the later.

It’s just annoying because I don’t want the team in the conference if I were honest. I am sick of the attitude and I deal with it because my godfather and cousins are ND alums. It’s really annoying.

You want to be independent fine be independent in everything.

The ACC provided that deal. Nobody had a gun to their head. ND operates this way because they can.

 

[Alsacs]

The ACC provided that deal. Nobody had a gun to their head. ND operates this way because they can.

It’s part of the reason why the ACC is basically the old Big East 2.0.

I not saying Notre Dame is stupid. They use their leverage.
I am at the point where I don’t care if Syracuse gets left behind I am done with this special bullchit for Notre Dame.
It’s just delaying the inevitable. If they don’t want to join the ACC it’s fine by me. Just join a conference and be done with it.

People are afraid to rip the band-aid off.
Just deal with it.

 

[Scotch]

It’s part of the reason why the ACC is basically the old Big East 2.0.

I not saying Notre Dame is stupid. They use their leverage.
I am at the point where I don’t care if Syracuse gets left behind I am done with this special bullchit for Notre Dame.
It’s just delaying the inevitable. If they don’t want to join the ACC it’s fine by me. Just join a conference and be done with it.

People are afraid to rip the band-aid off.
Just deal with it.

I hear you.

Not having centralized leadership in college football is creating this mess. Warring conferences are going to result in an outcome that isn’t best for the sport. If this new SEC becomes all that matters, you have a product that is geographically limited and seriously capped in terms of audience growth.

 

[sutomcat]

I honestly don’t want to date ND.
I am sick of the fact they just want to protect the status quo when that has an expiration date.

Let them go to the Big Ten. Their threat of leverage is their least desired outcome so let them enjoy it.

I really don’t want them in the ACC and they don’t either unless it’s completely necessary.
Last season told me that. If they had an ounce of sincerity with independence they would have sat out last season but they didn’t.

Theoretical question here...

I am guessing some of the ACC hard core football schools, like Clemson and FSU, are frustrated as hell with ND and their refusal to join the ACC for football. I suspect they would like the ACC to give ND two choices, with a decision due by August 31st:

1) join the ACC in all sports (i.e. add football)
or
2) hit the road and get kicked out of the conference

They would presumably be replaced by the Mountaineers.

Not sure if the ACC is contractually obligated to ND. Kicking ND out would surely hurt the TV contract in a small way. But having them part of the ACC in most sports hasn't been a home run.

They failed to deliver an early Comcast commitment.

Their basketball program has been irrelevant pretty much every season (I know they won an ACC tournament, maybe two but their teams have not been good and have made no impact in the NCAA tournament).

The requirement to play 5 ACC games a year is really not helping the conference much. Maybe it helps with TV ratings a little. I don't think the ACC is getting paid for it though. ND is consistently winning these ACC games and that is great for ND but it hurts the conference as a whole. And I think the 5 game obligation makes it less likely that the ACC will go to a 9 game conference schedule for football, which I think is important to build conference rivalries.

It is okay if ND values its independence for football and if it cares about that more than its place in the ACC for most of its Olympic sports, hey, that is understandable. The ACC can respect that and wish ND well in the future as its relationship with the conference ends.

I would think this option has to be a topic of discussion among the members of the ACC. The full time, completely committed members of the conference.

What would ND do if they got kicked out of the ACC? I would think their options would be to join the New Big East for Olympic sports and stay independent for football, or join the B1G as a full time member in all sports and give up their independence.

The New Big East might honestly be a better fit for them. The level of competition in almost all sports is considerably lower, so they would go from a small fish in a big pond to a big fish in a small pond. The NBE schools are also generally closer, especially now that the New Big East has all those teams in the Midwest. That is a plus for all the Olympic sports programs.

That might be nice for their egos for the athletes, alums and fans to win more games and be more of a power in more sports too. They would make less money in the NBE but between the NBE TV money, which would go up a bit, and their donor contributions, they would have enough to get by.

Or they go for the big bucks and join the B1G. Either way, they end up in good shape.

Understand, I am not advocating this position. This is a theoretical discussion. I like having ND in the conference and like having the opportunity to play them in a lot of sports, including football, on a fairly regular basis. I am not sure the ACC should have 'the talk' with ND. Probably not just yet.

The day WVU becomes a free agent and is available to replace ND might be the day 'the talk' happens though.

Something to think about...

 

[Alsacs]

I hear you.

Not having centralized leadership in college football is creating this mess. Warring conferences are going to result in an outcome that isn’t best for the sport. If this new SEC becomes all that matters, you have a product that is geographically limited and seriously capped in terms of audience growth.

The SEC commissioner and ND’s AD were part of the committee discussing the playoff expansion.
They freaking knew what they were doing proposing this 12 team playoff.
They protected their own interest while discussing with ESPN the current rights holder of the CFB.
The SEC was in discussions with Texas and Oklahoma during this and ND knew going to 12 would protect their independence.

It’s a freaking joke if anyone actually uses their brains and figures out what happened.
They cut out the Big XII.
Say the top 5 conference champions will be automatic berths and then the other 7 will basically be atleast 3-4 SEC teams a season.

This expansion by the SEC should shut down any need for CFB expansion if the Big Ten has any leadership.
They can unite the Pac-12 to their position along with the 8 teams left from the Big XII.
The ACC has to use their friggin brains and see what ND, SEC and ESPN are trying to do.

Rip the band-aid off Notre Dame.

 

[Alsacs]

Theoretical question here...

I am guessing some of the ACC hard core football schools, like Clemson and FSU, are frustrated as hell with ND and their refusal to join the ACC for football. I suspect they would like the ACC to give ND two choices, with a decision due by August 31st:

1) join the ACC in all sports (i.e. add football)
or
2) hit the road and get kicked out of the conference

They would presumably be replaced by the Mountaineers.

Not sure if the ACC is contractually obligated to ND. Kicking ND out would surely hurt the TV contract in a small way. But having them part of the ACC in most sports hasn't been a home run.

They failed to deliver an early Comcast commitment.

Their basketball program has been irrelevant pretty much every season (I know they won an ACC tournament, maybe two but their teams have not been good and have made no impact in the NCAA tournament).

The requirement to play 5 ACC games a year is really not helping the conference much. Maybe it helps with TV ratings a little. I don't think the ACC is getting paid for it though. ND is consistently winning these ACC games and that is great for ND but it hurts the conference as a whole. And I think the 5 game obligation makes it less likely that the ACC will go to a 9 game conference schedule for football, which I think is important to build conference rivalries.

It is okay if ND values its independence for football and if it cares about that more than its place in the ACC for most of its Olympic sports, hey, that is understandable. The ACC can respect that and wish ND well in the future as its relationship with the conference ends.

I would think this option has to be a topic of discussion among the members of the ACC. The full time, completely committed members of the conference.

What would ND do if they got kicked out of the ACC? I would think their options would be to join the New Big East for Olympic sports and stay independent for football, or join the B1G as a full time member in all sports and give up their independence.

The New Big East might honestly be a better fit for them. The level of competition in almost all sports is considerably lower, so they would go from a small fish in a big pond to a big fish in a small pond. The NBE schools are also generally closer, especially now that the New Big East has all those teams in the Midwest. That is a plus for all the Olympic sports programs.

That might be nice for their egos for the athletes, alums and fans to win more games and be more of a power in more sports too. They would make less money in the NBE but between the NBE TV money, which would go up a bit, and their donor contributions, they would have enough to get by.

Or they go for the big bucks and join the B1G. Either way, they end up in good shape.

Understand, I am not advocating this position. This is a theoretical discussion. I like having ND in the conference and like having the opportunity to play them in a lot of sports, including football, on a fairly regular basis. I am not sure the ACC should have 'the talk' with ND. Probably not just yet.

The day WVU becomes a free agent and is available to replace ND might be the day 'the talk' happens though.

Something to think about...

100% agreement here. You nailed it and I agree with you.
I would add TCU and Oklahoma State

TCU and OSU would bring good sports and Dallas recruiting.
They would help the football schools.

Notre Dame band aid needs to be ripped off.

 

[Alsacs]

ACC pods
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville

UNC
Duke
UVA
Virginia Tech

Wake
NC State
Clemson
Georgia Tech

Miami
Florida State
TCU
Oklahoma State

Play your 3 every year, play 2 teams in the other 3 pods every year.

It would be so easy to do a schedule with what I proposed as well.
You pair the program’s in pods.
Pitt/UL
SU/BC

Duke/UNC
VPI/UVA

Miami/FSU
OSU/TCU

GT/CU
NCSU/Wake

You would play your 3 pod mates.

Then one of each group every year one H/ one A and it would rotate each year and make it like the NFL you would know the schedules in advance easily.

 

[Chip]

ACC pods
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville

UNC
Duke
UVA
Virginia Tech

Wake
NC State
Clemson
Georgia Tech

Miami
Florida State
TCU
Oklahoma State

Play your 3 every year, play 2 teams in the other 3 pods every year.

As long as Miami and Florida State don't get a say in the process, then sure, why not.

I know how much you don't want anything to do with them for trying to torpedo a previous expansion iteration, but a BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU pod would be fun.

 

[Alsacs]

As long as Miami and Florida State don't get a say in the process, then sure, why not.

I know how much you don't want anything to do with them for trying to torpedo a previous expansion iteration, but a BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU pod would be fun.

FSU would like to play other football schools yearly like TCU and Oklahoma State.
They hate playing basketball first schools overwhelmingly.
Adding Oklahoma State and TCU would actually interest Florida State as an added bonus.
Miami doesn’t get the attention Florida State deserves and plus they could create a rivalry with Oklahoma State over Jimmy Johnson or something. He is beloved by both schools.

I personally value TCU more than WVU.
If the conference felt other wise I would Understand.
I feel a Oklahoma State/TCU package is the best out there currently.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

ACC pods
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville

UNC
Duke
UVA
Virginia Tech

Wake
NC State
Clemson
Georgia Tech

Miami
Florida State
TCU
Oklahoma State

Play your 3 every year, play 2 teams in the other 3 pods every year.

It would be so easy to do a schedule with what I proposed as well.
You pair the program’s in pods.
Pitt/UL
SU/BC

Duke/UNC
VPI/UVA

Miami/FSU
OSU/TCU

GT/CU
NCSU/Wake

You would play your 3 pod mates.

Then one of each group every year one H/ one A and it would rotate each year and make it like the NFL you would know the schedules in advance easily.

Yuck. TCU and Oklahoma State alone isn't worth it either. TCU is way too small. You say SU has no value covering an entire state but a small school in one city will add value?

If the ACC were to expand then 5 pods makes more sense. Take WV and Cincy to get to 16 and create 4 x 4. Add Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston as the last pod. That would add value. Those Texas schools > TCU. Heck so is Baylor. TCU is the 4th best option.

 

[chugg21]

I don’t hate ND for doing what’s best for them.

I do hate the ACC for being in this position with ND during, yet another, round of conference realignment.

If I’m the ACC - I’m done with placating Notre Dame at this point… if the conference folds because ND won’t join full member, then so be it, but this whole half in/half out garbage does nothing but prolong the inevitable and keep the ACC in a precarious situation.

Join the ACC. Join the B1G. Stay independent.

Pick one. My goodness.

Really wish they wouldn't have let them play a conference schedule last year. Had some power then and caved like letting a cheater back hoping that things will work out in the future even though everyone else knows you're just getting taken advantage of.

 

[Alsacs]

Really wish they wouldn't have let them play a conference schedule last year. Had some power then and caved like letting a cheater back hoping that things will work out in the future even though everyone else knows you're just getting taken advantage of.

Somebody gets it.

 

[gbo]

Really wish they wouldn't have let them play a conference schedule last year. Had some power then and caved like letting a cheater back hoping that things will work out in the future even though everyone else knows you're just getting taken advantage of.

Yep. We had all the leverage and power to force ND in and Swofford fumbled the ball like he always has.

 

[CuseCactus]

Really wish they wouldn't have let them play a conference schedule last year. Had some power then and caved like letting a cheater back hoping that things will work out in the future even though everyone else knows you're just getting taken advantage of.

I’ve been told - again and again - that ND exemplifies Catholic values, and is the “National Catholic University”. I’m waiting for their “Do unto others” epiphany.

Not holding my breath.

They are just like any other school. Perhaps worse - given how judgmental they are. A bigger version of Liberty.

At least with Bama - you know exactly what you are getting.

ND reminds me of Judge Smails. The world needs ditch diggers Danny!

 

[shandeezy7]

For me, CFB is Syracuse and the world it lives in. Very much in that order. I don’t have the time or energy for an SEC only CFB.

I honestly think the idea that the SEC is bigger than traditional CFB is the blind spot that will end up hurting it in the end.

I‘ve been bored by the CFB playoff because it cycles the same elite teams. We need a more even playing field not a smaller pool.

Totally agree with you on that. Even though Syracuse has been mediocre to terrible for the past 20 years, they are still playing big time football. Do away with that and my interest in whatever is left basically goes to zero. I'd say the same thing if the Bills were to ever leave Buffalo. My interest in the NFL would go to basically zero. I don't think we are alone in that line of thinking.

 

[Alsacs]

Yep. We had all the leverage and power to force ND in and Swofford fumbled the ball like he always has.

The ACC literally got nothing out of it.
They didn’t get an additional game per year commitment or anything.
Their are articles out there as well that showed Notre Dame was one of the leading advocates that last year had to be played so they could give an extra Effff you to Big Ten plan of sitting out the year.

The ACC canceled a game with Wake for ND to give them a week off before the ACCT game. Even though the game was canceled because of an ND Covid outbreak.

It’s amazing how dumb the leaders get with ND and just let them have everything. At some point enough is enough.

 

[hoopsupstate]

What is the geographic range of Stewart’s? None in Syracuse but obviously common north. Wonder what official territory is they cover. Great store.

Best milkshakes you can buy. A lot of them north of the thruway.

 

[Toga]

100% agreement here. You nailed it and I agree with you.
I would add TCU and Oklahoma State

TCU and OSU would bring good sports and Dallas recruiting.
They would help the football schools.

Notre Dame band aid needs to be ripped off.

It would dictate a contract look in. Then we'll see what ESPN really wants to do with the ACC.

 

[TheCusian]

The ACC literally got nothing out of it.
They didn’t get an additional game per year commitment or anything.
Their are articles out there as well that showed Notre Dame was one of the leading advocates that last year had to be played so they could give an extra Effff you to Big Ten plan of sitting out the year.

The ACC canceled a game with Wake for ND to give them a week off before the ACCT game. Even though the game was canceled because of an ND Covid outbreak.

It’s amazing how dumb the leaders get with ND and just let them have everything. At some point enough is enough.

Yep. To follow the lifeline up with a “we tasted conference play and it helped us value our independence” is a rather arrogant POS thing to say.

I keep laughing that the best argument for Independence is “we get to schedule who we want” and they scheduled New Mexico and Bowling Green

 

[TheCusian]

For me, CFB is Syracuse and the world it lives in. Very much in that order. I don’t have the time or energy for an SEC only CFB.

I honestly think the idea that the SEC is bigger than traditional CFB is the blind spot that will end up hurting it in the end.

I‘ve been bored by the CFB playoff because it cycles the same elite teams. We need a more even playing field not a smaller pool.

Sorry to reply to my own post. Hate to see it, but I wanted to follow up.

The SEC could make the case that by shrinking the viable teams they are creating more parity within that smaller group. But that’s disingenuous. They are greedy turds.

They could have worked with the P5 to breakaway from the NCAA. Set up a new governing structure that has enforcement teeth and proactively sought parity. This would be really good for the sport, but weakened the SEC a bit. So they won’t, Congress will likely need to get involved, because they are greedy turds.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I mean I can’t believe I have to explain this to you.
Ohio State was given the benefit of the doubt by the committee.
That had nothing to do with the Big Ten. It had everything to do with the fact Ohio State was given the benefit no other Big Ten team would have been given.

Oklahoma will be fine in the SEC.

Texas did exactly what ESPN wanted.

The SEC will get the most playoff most seasons I bet.

the bevo has been left out.

the PAC has been left out.

a 2nd or even a 3rd SEC team has been left out.

the B1G plays half a season and sends a team into the F4.

B1G > SEC when it comes to power.

the Bevo is blown up and teh SEC's top got watered down even more.

the path for Michigan and OSU or whomever to the F4, just got easier.

a blow up bevo is good for B1G business.

the B1G won this round.

 

[Alsacs]

the bevo has been left out.

the PAC has been left out.

a 2nd or even a 3rd SEC team has been left out.

the B1G plays half a season and sends a team into the F4.

B1G > SEC when it comes to power.

the Bevo is blown up and teh SEC's top got watered down even more.

the path for Michigan and OSU or whomever to the F4, just got easier.

a blow up bevo is good for B1G business.

the B1G won this round.

The Bevo didn’t make it because Oklahoma lost 2 games. If they only lost 1 game they would have made it.
The PAC-12 didn’t make it because nobody good came out of the conference last year.

It had nothing to do with expansion.
The Big Ten wouldn’t have gotten the same benefit of the doubt unless it was Ohio State

 

[KaiserUEO]

Aka what I said to Kaiser and he doesn’t get.

it will all be moot.

there will be no buyout.

and did the PAC say they will have a response?? a possible alliance against the SEC??

aka the Kaiser Plan??

this is nothing, we are just getting started.