Texas, Oklahoma reach out to the SEC

[nd1973]

Where the hell did I say you individually. Cry more.
Our fanbase as a whole doesn’t get it but please make this post.

So funny how you complain that ND is arrogant or selfish, and you treat everyone else as if they cannot comprehend the level of your genius. That is arrogance.

 

[Scooch]

Where the hell did I say you individually. Cry more.
Our fanbase as a whole doesn’t get it but please make this post.

Who cares what "our fanbase" gets?

Like elimunelson said, SU is not lucky. We are in the ACC because of our strong brand, attractive geography, and passionate fan base. We have been coveted by conferences since the 1960s.

All this wailing and gnashing of teeth is overwrought.

 

[Chip]

Yeah, we're all a bunch of rubes. None of us understand this stuff at all.

I mean, seriously?

 

[Alsacs]

It is not the duty of ND to "save" the ACC.

That is what you keep missing. Why didn't the other 14 schools "save" the ACC.

Why doesn't Clemson and FSU agree to sign a deal to stay forever in the ACC no matter what, no matter what cash offer they get from the SEC or Big Ten ??

That would save the ACC. Why doesn't anyone demand that?

Why doesn't Syracuse, Pitt and BC shave off ten million a year that it gets from the ACC and donate it to keep FSU, Clemson et all from wanting to leave?

Why not get everyone ("One for all and all for one") in the ACC to increase the exit fee and extend the GOR another ten years ?

Why is it ND's "duty" to do something that it doesn't want to do at all, for the least amount of money, to "save" the ACC ?

The ACC needs to save itself. It needs to come up with its own solution, then convince ND that it makes better sense than what ND is currently doing.

The ACC has failed miserably at that so far.

You think I want ND to save the ACC.
Again I haven’t said they should.
The status quo should end is all I have said.
Make a decision.

I don’t expect ND to save the ACC do what you want. Just enough of the current status quo.

 

[Alsacs]

So funny how you complain that ND is arrogant or selfish, and you treat everyone else as if they cannot comprehend the level of your genius. That is arrogance.

Yeah you nailed me. My fanbase is nice unlike me. You got some nerve yourself.

 

[Toga]

To what extent does say a $20-25 million a year difference in conference payout mean to a school with a $14 Billion endowment fund? If my math is right a 7% rate of return equates to about one billion dollars annually. I mean sure, $20-25 million is real money, but not next to one billion a year in investment returns.

 

[ImperialOrange]

While I could "refute" most of what you said i would be better off pissing in the wind. But on one point, Declan Sullivan, BK , and should have been fired. But the family (Declan's family) got involved and forgave what happened and started a scholarship in his name. But it is really low of you and shows how little character you have that you are willing to stand on top of a coffin to bash ND. Congrats, you are a horrible person.

There ya go. I'm the horrible person for going on a Notre Dame board to post this... Oh wait. How insecure are you to show up on an opposing team fan board, read 60+ pages in a thread that doesn't name your team in the title, and then name call to detract from your current head coach KILLING a kid?

Please refute any/all of what I said. I'll read it all and cede any points.

 

[TerryD]

You think I want ND to save the ACC.
Again I haven’t said they should.
The status quo should end is all I have said.
Make a decision.

I don’t expect ND to save the ACC do what you want. Just enough of the current status quo.

Answer: No.

Nobody at ND cares if other fans are tired of its status quo. Nobody. None.

If you want the status quo to end, somebody needs to come up with something clearly much better for ND, then convince them that is so.

Like I said, the ACC and the 14 other schools have so far failed miserably at this.

 

[TerryD]

To what extent does say a $20-25 million a year difference in conference payout mean to a school with a $14 Billion endowment fund? If my math is right a 7% rate of return equates to about one billion dollars annually. I mean sure, $20-25 million is real money, but not next to one billion a year in investment returns.

ND does not and cannot use its endowment fund for athletic purposes.

Why do you want ND to sell something it values very much for the cheapest price?

Something that it really doesn't want to sell in the first place. Only other people want that, not ND.

You probably would not do the same. Forget the "Catholic" stuff, that is a non-starter and has zero effect as an argument.

This is business.

 

[Alsacs]

Answer: No.

Nobody at ND cares if other fans are tired of its status quo. Nobody. None.

If you want the status quo to end, somebody needs to come up with something clearly much better for ND, then convince them that is so.

Like I said, the ACC and the 14 other schools have so far failed miserably at this.

This right here is exactly why ND deserves all the crap it gets.

Arrogance.

qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent.

The ACC deserves the crap it gets for getting into bed with ND.

 

[nd1973]

There ya go. I'm the horrible person for going on a Notre Dame board to post this... Oh wait. How insecure are you to show up on an opposing team fan board, read 60+ pages in a thread that doesn't name your team in the title, and then name call to detract from your current head coach KILLING a kid?

Please refute any/all of what I said. I'll read it all and cede any points.

It is a realignment thread and I have been a member for a long time. I did not know I only can respond to titles with ND in it, I did not read the fine print. The other stuff about the kid thing I will leave with my previous statement. I am not going to converse with a person who has little ethics.

Hope you have a great day. Watch the step down off the coffin, it can be tricky.

 

[TerryD]

This right here is exactly why ND deserves all the crap it gets.

Arrogance.

Its intelligence and good business.

ND does not want to give up its independence. Only other people do.

Would you sell your house that you like merely because your neighbor says so, then sell it for way below market rate to make your neighbor happy?

Would you then give him part of the sales price to help "save" him?

Get out of here with that stuff. This is merely business.

Syracuse would not do it if it were exactly in ND's shoes. Nobody would.

 

[ImperialOrange]

You pointed out two teams more deserving, in your opinion, which really doesn't mean much since you are not part of the committee.

Within the last 20 years, Notre Dame has added over 20K seats to its Stadium and sold out every game for 46 years until the last game of 2019. I will admit that the performance on the field has not lived up to expectations but even still, since 2000, ND has been to 16 bowl games (7 of which are part of the New Year's Six) and has finished the season ranked in the Top Twenty 11 times. Notre Dame being a part of two conferences is a benefit to those conferences as well, otherwise the Big East and ACC would not invite them for partial membership. I don't care about South Bend and I am over 30 years old. You don't think young people root for ND or want to go there? You're wrong.

Brian Kelly was wrong to have required Declan Sullivan to be on that scaffold that day. It was a tragic accident. Do you have any proof of the allegation that there were private payoffs after Declan Sullivan's death. All I know is that ND settled a suit with the State of Indiana for like 40 K for violations of safety regulations, as they should have. My understanding is that the Sullivan family did not seek any compensation for the death of Declan nor have they received any. The University has made payments to a memorial fund in Declan's honor, as have I. That's not a "private payoff".

5 teams, 2 1 year and 3 the other.

Young people yes, much fewer than years prior? Also yes. Maybe that's just sports in general though so will cede that point. I'm a Syracuse fan afterall.. I know what an aging fan base looks like.

And of course you're right, I have 0 proof of a private payout and no such proof will ever exist publicly but in your mind of minds you really think otherwise? Will cede the point of lack of evidence none the less. Could be my anti Penn State sentiment overwhelming.

To point, I'm not a Notre Dame hater. I appreciate history, I think the golden helmets and touchdown Jesus are great... Knute Rockne, win one for the Gipper, etc all great.

I do, however, detest your current coach and a large portion of what seems a very entitled fan base.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

No offense but Miami is always going to be more coveted than Syracuse when the conferences discussing expansion debate team.

Same for Pitt.

In a vacuum and in the current state of each program, yes 100%. But these decisions are not made in a vacuum. If the next round of expansion is in 2030 (nearing the end of ACC GOR) and Miami is still Miami and not the U, that improves our chances. If we still stink in football by then it will hurt our chances.

The Miami brand is hanging by a thread. A conference would look at where have you been, where are you now, and where are you going. The where have you been for Miami is great. The where are you now is not great. The where are you going is not looking great. Once you take their brand advantage away, SU is the better choice in every metric.

Pitt doesn't have a FB brand good enough to get chosen. They need to get in on other factors. Those other factors SU is slightly superior overall. But if a conference prefers a certain variable as a priority, they would be the better choice.

You are using emption and not logic. You are thinking like a fan and not like a decision maker at a college. When you look at all the variables (like a decision maker in the situation would) SU comes out pretty favorably. When you look at it like a fan and think who is the best FB program, SU looks awful.

 

[WoadBlue]

It is not the duty of ND to "save" the ACC.

It is not ND's duty to do something that is against its position, status and best interest in order to save a conference, any conference.

That is what you keep missing. Why don't the other 14 schools "save" the ACC ??

Why doesn't Clemson and FSU agree to sign a deal to stay forever in the ACC no matter what, no matter what cash offer they get from the SEC or Big Ten ??

That would save the ACC. Why doesn't anyone demand that?

Why doesn't Syracuse, Pitt and BC shave off ten million a year that it gets from the ACC and donate it to keep FSU, Clemson et al from wanting to leave?

That might save the ACC.

Why not get everyone ("One for all and all for one") in the ACC to just increase the exit fee and extend the GOR another ten years ?

Why is it ND's "duty" to do something that it doesn't want to do at all, for the least amount of money, to "save" the ACC ?

The ACC needs to save itself. It needs to come up with its own solution, then convince ND that it makes better sense than what ND is currently doing.

The ACC has failed miserably at that so far.

Just saying over and over "We want you to do this to save us and we will hate you if you don't" ain't cutting it.

What you persist in missing is that (A) The CFB football world that ND hoped to protect for itself with independence is dead and buried; (B) The demi-godlike power of multi-billionaire corporations is inextricably bound to all conference realignment, and it would just as soon steamroll everyone and everything that ND assumes is what it is preserving as bother swerving ever so slightly to avoid the destruction; (C) Acting always for self and self alone guarantees that when the time comes that you are in need of allies, you are unlikely to find any that are true friends; (D) As Jack Swarbrick has boasted, the now 30 years of conference realignment was actually started by ND getting an independent TV deal - that means that all the casualties of conference realignment have ND to blame for the process; (E) This most recent move certainly will spur the Big Ten and Fox to react, and if the SEC decides to war against the BT's reaction, then the end game for an ND that has remained not a full member of ACC football will be either join the SEC or the BT (the only 2 Major conferences by that point) or else accept reduced status; () ND long has expressed its frustration that changes in Major CFB have homogenized things so that smaller schools and private schools have either been dropped or else barely hang on. The ACC is the only Major conference with multiple private schools and smaller state schools.

 

[gbo]

This has easily been the best thread of the year...

 

[ImperialOrange]

It is a realignment thread and I have been a member for a long time. I did not know I only can respond to titles with ND in it, I did not read the fine print. The other stuff about the kid thing I will leave with my previous statement. I am not going to converse with a person who has little ethics.

Hope you have a great day. Watch the step down off the coffin, it can be tricky.

Got it, you can't refute anything.

Sorry your coach murdered someone and youre projecting that as anyone's issues but his and those that continue to blindly support him. You're no better that a Sandusky supporter/Joepologist. I'm also sorry you're such an insecure individual as, I'm sure, are those around you.

 

[nd1973]

Got it, you can't refute anything.

Sorry your coach murdered someone and youre projecting that as anyone's issues but his and those that continue to blindly support him. You're no better that a Sandusky supporter/Joepologist. I'm also sorry you're such an insecure individual as, I'm sure, are those around you.

Maybe I am insecure. But I will never stand on the coffin of kids, , I am content. Therefore, I still will always be looking down at you at minimum. That I feel secure in.

 

[TerryD]

What you persist in missing is that (A) The CFB football world that ND hoped to protect for itself with independence is dead and buried; (B) The demi-godlike power of multi-billionaire corporations is inextricably bound to all conference realignment, and it would just as soon steamroll everyone and everything that ND assumes is what it is preserving as bother swerving ever so slightly to avoid the destruction; (C) Acting always for self and self alone guarantees that when the time comes that you are in need of allies, you are unlikely to find any that are true friends; (D) As Jack Swarbrick has boasted, the now 30 years of conference realignment was actually started by ND getting an independent TV deal - that means that all the casualties of conference realignment have ND to blame for the process; (E) This most recent move certainly will spur the Big Ten and Fox to react, and if the SEC decides to war against the BT's reaction, then the end game for an ND that has remained not a full member of ACC football will be either join the SEC or the BT (the only 2 Major conferences by that point) or else accept reduced status; () ND long has expressed its frustration that changes in Major CFB have homogenized things so that smaller schools and private schools have either been dropped or else barely hang on. The ACC is the only Major conference with multiple private schools and smaller state schools.

But ACC fans still want ND to do what it doesn't want to do at all, and for the lowest possible price.

To me, that is arrogance.

This is what I keep seeing:

"I don't like the status quo so I demand that ND jettison independence, do it right now and take less money for it against its best interests because I say so and because it will help the school I root for."

Look, it seems inevitable to me that two super conferences will form and that ND will ultimately have to join one, no matter what.

Everything else seems to be re-arranging deck chairs until that inevitable day.

So, the best idea for ND seems to be for football to remain independent, to ride it out, to make sure ND is in its strongest and most flexible position, then pick the best one of the super conferences, not join the current ACC in football (especially not right now for half the payout and be locked into an even longer GOR).

I am sorry that is an unpopular opinion, but the ACC needs to do a better job than it has been doing, not ask ND to give up things to save it.

I strongly believe that neither Syracuse nor North Carolina nor any other school would do what you are asking if it were in ND's place.

The ACC needs to get creative. Convince Southern Cal, Stanford, Navy and two other schools to join it with ND, become a true coast to coast national conference, then get ESPN to agree that if ND joins, the payout will equal or be very close to SEC and Big Ten money.

I think that this is the job of the ACC to put together, not ND's job.

To me, that should be the pathway to getting ND to jettison independence, not to say we are tired of the status quo and that ND needs to do this to "save" the ACC from itself or we will be mad at you.

Only then can ND and the ACC have a real business discussion about ND dumping independence and joining the ACC.

 

[Alsacs]

In a vacuum and in the current state of each program, yes 100%. But these decisions are not made in a vacuum. If the next round of expansion is in 2030 (nearing the end of ACC GOR) and Miami is still Miami and not the U, that improves our chances. If we still stink in football by then it will hurt our chances.

The Miami brand is hanging by a thread. A conference would look at where have you been, where are you now, and where are you going. The where have you been for Miami is great. The where are you now is not great. The where are you going is not looking great. Once you take their brand advantage away, SU is the better choice in every metric.

Pitt doesn't have a FB brand good enough to get chosen. They need to get in on other factors. Those other factors SU is slightly superior overall. But if a conference prefers a certain variable as a priority, they would be the better choice.

You are using emption and not logic. You are thinking like a fan and not like a decision maker at a college. When you look at all the variables (like a decision maker in the situation would) SU comes out pretty favorably. When you look at it like a fan and think who is the best FB program, SU looks awful.

Pitt FB brand is miles better than our FB brand.
Plus they would bring a recruiting base to a conference.

 

[Alsacs]

But ACC fans still want ND to do what it doesn't want to do at all, and for the lowest possible price.

To me, that is arrogance. "I don't like the status quo so I demand that ND jettison independence, do it right now and take less money for it against its best interests because I say so."

Look, it seems inevitable to me that two super conferences will form and that ND will ultimately have to join one, no matter what.

Everything else seems to be re-arranging deck chairs until that inevitable day.

So, the best idea for ND seems to be to ride it out, make sure ND is in its strongest and most flexible position, then pick the best one of the super conferences, not join the ACC in football (especially not right now for half the payout and be locked into an even longer GOR).

I am sorry that is an unpopular opinion, but the ACC needs to do a better job than it has been doing, not ask ND to give up things to save it.

I strongly believe that neither Syracuse nor North Carolina nor any other school would do what you are asking if it were in ND's place.

The ACC needs to get creative. Convince Southern Cal, Stanford, Navy and one other school to join it with ND,, then get ESPN to agree that if ND joins, the payout will equal or be very close to SEC and Big Ten money.

To me, that should be the pathway to getting ND to jettison independence, not to say we are tired of the status quo and that ND needs to do this to "save" the ACC from itself or we will be mad at you.

Notre Dame jettisoned independence when they had the option of sitting out the season last year. They chose to play an ACC schedule last year.
The the principled decision for independence purists would have been sit out be season if ND wanted to be consistent.
They aren’t.

I don’t expect ND to save the ACC I just expect the ACC to stop treating ND the way it currently does when it won’t do anything to help the conference long term.
New commissioner now.
New leadership.

Change the status quo. Let ND go to the Big Ten if that is their decision.

 

[nd1973]

Notre Dame jettisoned independence when they had the option of sitting out the season last year.
That was the principled decision if ND wanted to be consistent.
They aren’t.

I don’t expect ND to save the ACC I just expect the ACC to stop treating ND the way it currently does when it won’t do anything to help the conference long term.
New commissioner now.
New leadership.

Change the status quo. Let ND go to the Big Ten if that is their decision.

Not a bad option the Big East, but we're under contract and ESPN and ACC would sue us.

 

[TerryD]

Notre Dame jettisoned independence when they had the option of sitting out the season last year. They chose to play an ACC schedule last year.
The the principled decision for independence purists would have been sit out be season if ND wanted to be consistent.
They aren’t.

I don’t expect ND to save the ACC I just expect the ACC to stop treating ND the way it currently does when it won’t do anything to help the conference long term.
New commissioner now.
New leadership.

Change the status quo. Let ND go to the Big Ten if that is their decision.

A one year safe harbor is nothing at all like jettisoning independence forever.

It is not the same sport, let alone the same ballpark.

You are smart enough to know this, or should be.

Why isn't the ACC working to make the ACC membership more attractive than independence, instead of bitching about the latter?

Bitching about ND leads nowhere. It gains the ACC and its schools absolutely nothing at all.

Its the ACC that needs to convince ND, not the other way around.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Pitt FB brand is miles better than our FB brand.
Plus they would bring a recruiting base to a conference.

Their brand is ahead of ours but not miles. The point is they CANNOT get into a conference based on their brand. In fact their brand would get worse the minute they enter the conference as they will be a bottom feeder. So they will need to be chosen because of other factors, not football. That is where SU is the better choice.

The B1G has Western PA covered with Ohio State and Penn State. Adding Pitt will not open up Western PA to the B1G any more than it already is.

If the SEC wanted to go further North, then Pitt will be chosen over us 110%. I don't think the SEC will ever do so.

So it put it this way...

B1G expansion SU is slightly ahead of Pitt as a choice. Whether or not the B1G ever gets down to making this choice is another question.

SEC expansion Pitt is well ahead of SU as a choice. It is highly unlikely that the SEC ever gets down to this choice.

So realistically SU has a better chance at getting into the P2 than Pitt.

 

[longislandcuse]

A one year safe harbor is nothing at all like jettisoning independence forever.

It is not the same sport, let alone the same ballpark.

You are smart enough to know this, or should be.

Why isn't the ACC working to make the ACC membership more attractive than independence, instead of bitching about the latter?

Bitching about ND leads nowhere. It gains the ACC and its schools absolutely nothing at all.

Its the ACC that needs to convince ND, not the other way around.

If ND joins the ACC, you have a conference that is on par with the B1G and can renegotiate a mega-deal with networks.

You’re not joining the SEC, and like it or not, but they will own college sports. So it’s either of the two lesser conferences: ACC, B1G or Independence… and in this landscape, Independence is going to get tougher and tougher.

You can act like the ACC needs to do all these things, but more than likely, the ACC will either wait y’all out if/until it becomes too difficult to remain Independent or the ACC eventually falls and you have to join the B1G.