The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread... | Page 80 | Syracusefan.com

The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

Capt. Tuttle said:
A huge problem for SU FB faithful is the belief that yesterday matters. Would you go to a surgeon who said "I know I'm not much now, but in 1959 I was the best, and in the 80's I had a resurgence."?

Bad example. In sports history matters.

And it's not just our overall history that matters, but for this thread - our history vs Rutgers that's relevant.

Rutgers is 12-30-1 vs us, all time.

The average score over the entire series is 27-16, us.

From 1914-2004, they won 5 out of 35.

By decade, they've only finished with more wins once and it's 2010's (2-1). There is of course still time and a decent probability of us playing them in the Pinstripe Bowl in the next 5 seasons.

In the only time in their existence where they rose to mediocre, and we slid into the worst slide in our program history - they hold the edge 7-6.

While tiphill is right that they've out recruited us the last ten years (9-1) they have about 10 more wins over that same period. Meaning - they've underachieved.

That doesn't even touch on NC (1-ha, ha, ha) or bowl appearances (R 10, S 25).

In short - even including our worst years and their best years - we are by far the better program.
 
In sports, history matters the most to fans when their program currently isn't very good.

So Yankee fans with their team currently securely in first place don't care about Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Maris, DiMaggio, Berra, etc., etc.? If they really don't care, there's a lot of uniform numbers they could reissue. Who should they give #3 to? or #7?

I'll bet if you get underneath it, the Yanks being in first place currently isn't the reason Yankee fan are Yankee fans.

Rutgers has no real tradition --- except for playing a rugby game vs. Princeton years ago ... so to them history and tradition aren't important. But lots of them are also Yankee fans and I'll bet history and tradition matter in that.

History and traditions do matter in sports.
 
qdawgg said:
In sports, history matters the most to fans when their program currently isn't very good.

Yep. And it matters least to those experiencing a relative boon (from poor to mediocre, in Rutgers case).

Would you trade our collective history with Rutgers? Would you take 10 mediocre years in exchange for a National Championship with a Heisman winner in the 50's? Or a McNabb year for ANY Rutgers year?

I'd swap the Grobb era for the Shiano era, but there's no amount of scrubbing going to get clean from his stink.
 
So Yankee fans with their team currently securely in first place don't care about Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Maris, DiMaggio, Berra, etc., etc.? If they really don't care, there's a lot of uniform numbers they could reissue. Who should they give #3 to? or #7?

I'll bet if you get underneath it, the Yanks being in first place currently isn't the reason Yankee fan are Yankee fans.

Rutgers has no real tradition --- except for playing a rugby game vs. Princeton years ago ... so to them history and tradition aren't important. But lots of them are also Yankee fans and I'll bet history and tradition matter in that.

History and traditions do matter in sports.

Let me know next time Yankee fans spend any time talking about the greats at the end of the season, or at the beginning of the season for that matter. The only time they do that is when they are in an off year and not making the playoffs or get booted from it. I became a Yankees fan originally because of current players, specifically Dave Winfield. Later I learned the history.

Uniform numbers and the history of those numbers has zero to do with what I said.
 
Let me know next time Yankee fans spend any time talking about the greats at the end of the season, or at the beginning of the season for that matter. The only time they do that is when they are in an off year and not making the playoffs or get booted from it. I became a Yankees fan originally because of current players, specifically Dave Winfield. Later I learned the history.

Uniform numbers and the history of those numbers has zero to do with what I said.


Is May your favorite month? ;)
 
Yep. And it matters least to those experiencing a relative boon (from poor to mediocre, in Rutgers case).

Would you trade our collective history with Rutgers? Would you take 10 mediocre years in exchange for a National Championship with a Heisman winner in the 50's? Or a McNabb year for ANY Rutgers year?

I'd swap the Grobb era for the Shiano era, but there's no amount of scrubbing going to get clean from his stink.

Not surprisingly you fail to understand my point because you've let your own sentiments and opinions dictate how you read my post.

My post has ZERO to do with switching histories.
 
So Yankee fans with their team currently securely in first place don't care about Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Maris, DiMaggio, Berra, etc., etc.? If they really don't care, there's a lot of uniform numbers they could reissue. Who should they give #3 to? or #7?

I'll bet if you get underneath it, the Yanks being in first place currently isn't the reason Yankee fan are Yankee fans.

Rutgers has no real tradition --- except for playing a rugby game vs. Princeton years ago ... so to them history and tradition aren't important. But lots of them are also Yankee fans and I'll bet history and tradition matter in that.

History and traditions do matter in sports.

I take umbrage to that being a "rugby game". Reading on it, the rules were much more similar to soccer.
 
Not surprisingly you fail to understand my point because you've let your own sentiments and opinions dictate how you read my post.

My post has ZERO to do with switching histories.

I understood your point fine. (Crazy that I let my opinion dictate how I read things. I'll have to learn to not let me interpret what I'm reading.)

The truth is that I care about Syracuse history all of the time. I think about it when we suck (as in "man, we were good") and when we are good ("just how good are we? How do we rank against the McNabb era? etc.).

It matters because I have a memory. Most of the joy in sports for me is knowing the history and watching what's on the field and wondering where it fits in that history. And if you're looking at program history some of the time, you're aware of the fact that ours is more enjoyable to be a part of than Rutgers.

My point was saying that I'm bringing up history more because we have largely sucked in the last 10-12 years is not true. I'm not excluding recent history because it makes me feel bad. I'm saying "in total, including the sucky parts" ... You assume I'm bringing up history as a smokescreen for recent failings. I'm not.

And you didn't answer the question.
 
Just to be clear, Rutgers fans are remembering their recent past (history) as they do not expect a good season this year. I do not fault them for enjoying their recent history, though I will laugh at them when they conveniently forget the previous 125+ years. I also temper their joy at their recent success with a review of their opponents, we are not exactly talking about big name CFB.
 
http://footballscoop.com/news/rutgers-inept-leadership/

ESPN’s Joe Schad reported that Flood had indeed emailed a professor but did not ask the professor to change the player’s grade but addressed what the player could do to improve his grade.

This morning, NJ.com revealed that Rutgers officials have known about and “initiated an investigation with the assistance of outside counsel” when this matter was brought to their attention “a little more than one week ago.” NJ.com noted that on Monday they attempted (through Rutgers employees) to review the contents of the email and sought comment from athletic director Julie Hermann, who referred all questions to the office of university president Robert Barchi. Note that as of this time, I have not seen any comments from the president’s office either.

So, Monday, Rutgers officials were aware that NJ.com had knowledge of the investigation (for now, we won’t even dive into the question of who tipped them off). I’m sure you’re thinking the same thing I am, right? Why didn’t Rutgers address this before allowing NJ.com to break the “scandal”? Oh, and let’s dive into this “investigation.” Someone brought the email to the administration’s attention “a little more than a week ago,” and Rutgers said they immediately brought in outside counsel to assist. How complicated is this investigation? Read the email. Ask the teacher about it. Ask Kyle Flood about it. Do we have a problem or not? Seems that could have been completed in far, far less than a week.

Less than a year ago, when announcing a contract extension for Flood, university president Robert Barchi said, “Coach Flood exemplifies our university’s standards and values both on and off the field.”

Looking back, it sounds as if Flood might not have made the best decision about how to reach out to a faculty member about one of his players. Rutgers has known about this for over a week. Seems like someone there could have been prepared to say, at the very least, “Coach Flood is a good man and has done a good job leading our program. Recently, he sent an email to a professor inquiring about the status of one of his players. A concern was raised about the email and we are in the process of reviewing whether any further action is required. We expect to have an update by _____…”

So, what do we have here? Another example of inept leadership within Rutgers athletics? Or should we perhaps put on the conspiracy theorist hat and go with a leak from within (only place a leak would come from) planted to, at the very least, smear Kyle Flood. Considering Rutgers’ long history of dysfunction, and that utter chaos has been the department’s m.o. since Hermann’s arrival, anything seems possible here.

Time will tell; but the way this came out, and the absolute silence from Hermann, sure does feel wrong.
 
http://footballscoop.com/news/rutgers-inept-leadership/

ESPN’s Joe Schad reported that Flood had indeed emailed a professor but did not ask the professor to change the player’s grade but addressed what the player could do to improve his grade.

This morning, NJ.com revealed that Rutgers officials have known about and “initiated an investigation with the assistance of outside counsel” when this matter was brought to their attention “a little more than one week ago.” NJ.com noted that on Monday they attempted (through Rutgers employees) to review the contents of the email and sought comment from athletic director Julie Hermann, who referred all questions to the office of university president Robert Barchi. Note that as of this time, I have not seen any comments from the president’s office either.

So, Monday, Rutgers officials were aware that NJ.com had knowledge of the investigation (for now, we won’t even dive into the question of who tipped them off). I’m sure you’re thinking the same thing I am, right? Why didn’t Rutgers address this before allowing NJ.com to break the “scandal”? Oh, and let’s dive into this “investigation.” Someone brought the email to the administration’s attention “a little more than a week ago,” and Rutgers said they immediately brought in outside counsel to assist. How complicated is this investigation? Read the email. Ask the teacher about it. Ask Kyle Flood about it. Do we have a problem or not? Seems that could have been completed in far, far less than a week.

Less than a year ago, when announcing a contract extension for Flood, university president Robert Barchi said, “Coach Flood exemplifies our university’s standards and values both on and off the field.”

Looking back, it sounds as if Flood might not have made the best decision about how to reach out to a faculty member about one of his players. Rutgers has known about this for over a week. Seems like someone there could have been prepared to say, at the very least, “Coach Flood is a good man and has done a good job leading our program. Recently, he sent an email to a professor inquiring about the status of one of his players. A concern was raised about the email and we are in the process of reviewing whether any further action is required. We expect to have an update by _____…”

So, what do we have here? Another example of inept leadership within Rutgers athletics? Or should we perhaps put on the conspiracy theorist hat and go with a leak from within (only place a leak would come from) planted to, at the very least, smear Kyle Flood. Considering Rutgers’ long history of dysfunction, and that utter chaos has been the department’s m.o. since Hermann’s arrival, anything seems possible here.

Time will tell; but the way this came out, and the absolute silence from Hermann, sure does feel wrong.
The AD's office has academic advisers. If an inquiry were to be made of a prof, it would be through them. Direct communication from the head football coach strikes me as an attempt to intimidate - regardless of how the message was worded. Can you imagine JB doing this and having it become public? He would have so many wins vacated that he'd be down to single digits.
 
So Yankee fans with their team currently securely in first place don't care about Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Maris, DiMaggio, Berra, etc., etc.? If they really don't care, there's a lot of uniform numbers they could reissue. Who should they give #3 to? or #7?

I'll bet if you get underneath it, the Yanks being in first place currently isn't the reason Yankee fan are Yankee fans.

Rutgers has no real tradition --- except for playing a rugby game vs. Princeton years ago ... so to them history and tradition aren't important. But lots of them are also Yankee fans and I'll bet history and tradition matter in that.

History and traditions do matter in sports.

I'm not so sure -- I know plenty of Yankees fans who are fans of the Yankees predominantly when the team is in first place ;)
 
So Yankee fans with their team currently securely in first place don't care about Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Maris, DiMaggio, Berra, etc., etc.? If they really don't care, there's a lot of uniform numbers they could reissue. Who should they give #3 to? or #7?

I'll bet if you get underneath it, the Yanks being in first place currently isn't the reason Yankee fan are Yankee fans.

Rutgers has no real tradition --- except for playing a rugby game vs. Princeton years ago ... so to them history and tradition aren't important. But lots of them are also Yankee fans and I'll bet history and tradition matter in that.

History and traditions do matter in sports.

This is true but this argument, as with most debates, ends up being solved by acknowledging that the answer lies in the middle.

It's great to have history and tradition. It's irreplaceable, in fact. VA Tech, for example, has been a really, really good program (people may hate to admit this, but it's true) for a couple decades now (say what you will about schedule they've won fewer than 8 games just twice since '93 -- 21 years-- played in a title game in that span and had arguably the most exciting college football player in that span with Vick). Yet as good as they are (and that's with a couple not-so-great years back-to-back) they have a long way to go to be viewed as a legitimate FCS power. Point being, you have to perform at a high level for at least a few decades before being viewed as someone mentioned consistently in the same breath as the Alabamas and Ohio States, etc.

The flip side, however, is that tradition only goes so far. Sure, there are people out there who remember the Jim Browns and Floyd Littles and that carries some cache and there are some who would acknowledge that the 90s were a good decade for us. But ultimately if you're talking to people outside of the Syracuse fan base, there's not a whole lot of interest in what we did in the 50s and, for that matter, what we did in the late 80s-90s. Even the Freeney team that won 10 games was 14 years ago meaning the incoming freshman were, what, 4 when that team was winning those games.

Bottom line, it's cool to have tradition and it shouldn't be disregarded, but to say that we get some sort of tangible benefit of that tradition when we're struggling to fill the dome and winning 5 games a year is probably a fairly significant reach.
 
I hate keeping this thread going, but I have to admit, I'm laughing. Rutgers for years and years and years and YEARS is just a waste of a D1 program who has nothing outside of geography going for it.

Then they suddenly come alive a bit with actual successful teams, and start filling their stadium for a couple games each year.

Then they get an invite to, of all places, the Big Ten.

And as all this happens, NJ.com just keeps trying to tear them down.

Hilarious.
 
Reading some posts in this thread reminds me of how I feel when I'm talking to my 14-year old about the value of her history class.
History gives us a mirror as to how we got here and why we are WHAT we are. It's all-important, IMO.
Its mindboggling that some in our microwave society lose all sight of the value of a historical perspective.
Rutgers can't touch us as a program, just like we can't touch an ND, OSU, 'Bama and many other upper-level programs...largely BECAUSE of their history and tradition- and no matter how many winning seasons we manage to put together. The real issue here is that those other program's fans KNOW and BELIEVE this to be the case- no doubt about it.
How pathetic is it that a few years' tailspin has resulted in such utter self-loathing, combined with a requisite incomprehensible jock-sniffing, of a totally bogus RU program.
Sad, just...sad.
JMHO
 
Reading some posts in this thread reminds me of how I feel when I'm talking to my 14-year old about the value of her history class.
History gives us a mirror as to how we got here and why we are WHAT we are. It's all-important, IMO.
Its mindboggling that some in our microwave society lose all sight of the value of a historical perspective.
Rutgers can't touch us as a program, just like we can't touch an ND, OSU, 'Bama and many other upper-level programs...largely BECAUSE of their history and tradition- and no matter how many winning seasons we manage to put together. The real issue here is that those other program's fans KNOW and BELIEVE this to be the case- no doubt about it.
How pathetic is it that a few years' tailspin has resulted in such utter self-loathing, combined with a requisite incomprehensible jock-sniffing, of a totally bogus RU program.
Sad, just...sad.
JMHO

If we played ND, OSU, or Alabama 8 times for instance in the last 10 years and won 6 of those games. What would we be saying on this message board?

Option 1: The last 10 years doesn't matter because those teams historically the last 50 years have crushed us and that's what counts

Option 2: Screw _____ team, we've kicked their @ss for the last 10 years. Who cares whether they beat us 25 years ago?

I think we all know the answer to this.

* Revisionist History Alert: "a few years' tailspin"

* The reality is their program does matter to some degree because we have a 57 page thread dedicated to them. We don't even have a 5 page thread dedicated to Pitt or BC who are in our conference.
 
qdawgg said:
If we played ND, OSU, or Alabama 8 times for instance in the last 10 years and won 6 of those games. What would we be saying on this message board? Option 1: The last 10 years doesn't matter because those teams historically the last 50 years have crushed us and that's what counts Option 2: Screw _____ team, we've kicked their @ss for the last 10 years. Who cares whether they beat us 25 years ago? I think we all know the answer to this. * Revisionist History Alert: "a few years' tailspin" * The reality is their program does matter to some degree because we have a 57 page thread dedicated to them. We don't even have a 5 page thread dedicated to Pitt or BC who are in our conference.

Option 3: Man we sucked then, but now maybe we've entered a new era?*

* let's call this "how most everyone would see it"
 
Option 3: Man we sucked then, but now maybe we've entered a new era?*

* let's call this "how most everyone would see it"

You think that would be said more than option #2?
 
qdawgg said:
You think that would be said more than option #2?

By the diehards - yep.

"Crawled through a mile of shat and came out clean on the other side" is a better story
 

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