The alliance scheduling agreement already looks dead in football

[nd1973]

Because, in part, that reveals that ND is just the whore its detractors have always asserted. And in part because ND in the BT will be revealed as just a small private school. ND will be subsumed by the huge Land Grant league. ND will have about as much power as Northwestern.

Texas, even being a huge Flagship, is going to find out very quickly that it cannot hope to ever have power remotely close to what it had in the Big 12.

We'll still be powerful, just not as powerful. Joining a conference does not wipe our history, our contacts and our reach. I do not fear membership in a conference. It is not the end of the world for us, just a new chapter. But I will want us to have a conference that gives us great games (OSU, Mich, MSU, Whisky). I do not want it, but it likely will happen. The ACC is great, but it is doomed to die. The Big Ten would not want us to be a Northwestern, that would be stupid business, and after-all this is a business.

 

[nd1973]

SEC football dominance would not be hurt a single jot by ND joining the BT. The only thing that could make BT football the equal of SEC football is the BT becoming planted firmly in the South. That means adding the states of VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL.

They would care, they would not willigly help their biggest rival, that is ridiculous to suggest. The ACC maybe they would not care because they are no real threat to the SEC. But that is a stretch also. This really takes a leap into the what-if world, which is full of self filled bias and what I want to happenisms. The past should be your guide, not your own mind, that is what will tell you what is to come.

 

[sutomcat]

To be eligible for the CFB you must be in a conference.

If that was a rule ND would join a conference.
The ACC can’t propose this.
The SEC could.

Why would the SEC do this? It would solidify the ACC. For a long time, they would not do this because they were hoping to take a couple of the ACC’s top programs to complete their league.

But they are (at least in theory) complete now. There is no need to add ACC schools that frankly, are not as valuable as OU and Texas. So helping to solidify the ACC is no longer a problem for the SEC. In fact, given the anger and resentment expressed by the B12, P12 and B1G after the OU/Texas heist, they might find it in their interest to have an ally. And the most natural ally is the conference right next store.

But the biggest reason the SEC might do a solid for the ACC is to get the ACC to vote for the college playoff expansion. That is one thing they want that we could help them with.

What if a secret deal was brokered where the SEC agreed to a new rule requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the new playoff, in return for the ACC supporting the playoff expansion (after ND agreed to formally join the ACC for all sports)? That is what you arr proposing, correct?

The thing is, would a vote requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the football playoffs pass given strong support from the SEC?

We know the B1G would never left a finger to help anyone except themselves. But if the ACC offered the other conferences the same deal as the SEC, where they would vote for the playoff expansion in return for support for the new rule excluding independent schools from participating in the playoffs, would they do it?

I know the AAC would. The P12 surely would. And if history means anything, even the mighty B1G might do it if it meant getting the playoff expansion. They would be the conference most likely to say no though, given they still might want to add ND to their conference.

It would be a scum bag, sleazy move and a hell of a way to start a full marriage with the Irish. I am sure if the ACC was the SEC or the B1G, they would do it. In a minute. Can’t see the ACC doing it though. I think the presidents and boards of the ACC schools have too much integrity. I wouldn’t do it either. But like Jack Nicholson said, I cant handle the truth.

 

[nd1973]

Why would the SEC do this? It would solidify the ACC. For a long time, they would not do this because they were hoping to take a couple of the ACC’s top programs to complete their league.

But they are (at least in theory) complete now. There is no need to add ACC schools that frankly, are not as valuable as OU and Texas. So helping to solidify the ACC is no longer a problem for the SEC. In fact, given the anger and resentment expressed by the B12, P12 and B1G after the OU/Texas heist, they might find it in their interest to have an ally. And the most natural ally is the conference right next store.

But the biggest reason the SEC might do a solid for the ACC is to get the ACC to vote for the college playoff expansion. That is one thing they want that we could help them with.

What if a secret deal was brokered where the SEC agreed to a new rule requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the new playoff, in return for the ACC supporting the playoff expansion (after ND agreed to formally join the ACC for all sports)? That is what you arr proposing, correct?

The thing is, would a vote requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the football playoffs pass given strong support from the SEC?

We know the B1G would never left a finger to help anyone except themselves. But if the ACC offered the other conferences the same deal as the SEC, where they would vote for the playoff expansion in return for support for the new rule excluding independent schools from participating in the playoffs, would they do it?

I know the AAC would. The P12 surely would. And if history means anything, even the mighty B1G might do it if it meant getting the playoff expansion. They would be the conference most likely to say no though, given they still might want to add ND to their conference.

It would be a scum bag, sleazy move and a hell of a way to start a full marriage with the Irish. I am sure if the ACC was the SEC or the B1G, they would do it. In a minute. Can’t see the ACC doing it though. I think the presidents and boards of the ACC schools have too much integrity. I wouldn’t do it either. But like Jack Nicholson said, I cant handle the truth.

The SEC wouldn't, but it makes for good message board material.

 

[Alsacs]

Why would the SEC do this? It would solidify the ACC. For a long time, they would not do this because they were hoping to take a couple of the ACC’s top programs to complete their league.

But they are (at least in theory) complete now. There is no need to add ACC schools that frankly, are not as valuable as OU and Texas. So helping to solidify the ACC is no longer a problem for the SEC. In fact, given the anger and resentment expressed by the B12, P12 and B1G after the OU/Texas heist, they might find it in their interest to have an ally. And the most natural ally is the conference right next store.

But the biggest reason the SEC might do a solid for the ACC is to get the ACC to vote for the college playoff expansion. That is one thing they want that we could help them with.

What if a secret deal was brokered where the SEC agreed to a new rule requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the new playoff, in return for the ACC supporting the playoff expansion (after ND agreed to formally join the ACC for all sports)? That is what you arr proposing, correct?

The thing is, would a vote requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the football playoffs pass given strong support from the SEC?

We know the B1G would never left a finger to help anyone except themselves. But if the ACC offered the other conferences the same deal as the SEC, where they would vote for the playoff expansion in return for support for the new rule excluding independent schools from participating in the playoffs, would they do it?

I know the AAC would. The P12 surely would. And if history means anything, even the mighty B1G might do it if it meant getting the playoff expansion. They would be the conference most likely to say no though, given they still might want to add ND to their conference.

It would be a scum bag, sleazy move and a hell of a way to start a full marriage with the Irish. I am sure if the ACC was the SEC or the B1G, they would do it. In a minute. Can’t see the ACC doing it though. I think the presidents and boards of the ACC schools have too much integrity. I wouldn’t do it either. But like Jack Nicholson said, I cant handle the truth.

ESPN is why the SEC added Oklahoma and Texas.
Conferences are run by who pays them.

ESPN owns the SEC and they have the ACC as well.

If ESPN got the SEC to do their bidding. It would soldify their other portfolio they own.
ESPN doesn’t want NBC or Fox investing in college sports.
It makes them pay more.

If the SEC proposed that you must be in a conference to be eligible for the CFB it could get the votes from the ACC for what it wants the terms to be eligible for the expanded playoff the SEC wants.

ND could join the Big Ten and it wouldn’t impact the SEC one bit.

The ACC if it wants to make more money would likely need ND as the easiest way.

The ACC can’t force ND’s hand.
The SEC could.

 

[Alsacs]

The SEC wouldn't, but it makes for good message board material.

ESPN is why the SEC added Oklahoma and Texas.

Conference realignment is all about networks.

The ACC could do nothing but what I outline is what the conference do with ESPN.

 

[nd1973]

ESPN is why the SEC added Oklahoma and Texas.
Conferences are run by who pays them.

ESPN owns the SEC and they have the ACC as well.

If ESPN got the SEC to do their bidding. It would soldify their other portfolio they own.
ESPN doesn’t want NBC or Fox investing in college sports.
It makes them pay more.

If the SEC proposed that you must be in a conference to be eligible for the CFB it could get the votes from the ACC for what it wants the terms to be eligible for the expanded playoff the SEC wants.

ND could join the Big Ten and it wouldn’t impact the SEC one bit.

The ACC if it wants to make more money would likely need ND as the easiest way.

The ACC can’t force ND’s hand.
The SEC could.

One problem is Swarbrick and Sankey are BFF;\'s now. They have been working on scheduling and playoff issues for the past year. Not likely to happen man, but it is a minute chance.

 

[Alsacs]

One problem is Swarbrick and Sankey are BFF;\'s now. They have been working on scheduling and playoff issues for the past year. Not likely to happen man, but it is a minute chance.

Swarbrick’s friendship with Sankey doesn’t trump Sankey’s relationship with ESPN.

Again I am talking about what the ACC should do not what I am expecting.

 

[WoadBlue]

We'll still be powerful, just not as powerful. Joining a conference does not wipe our history, our contacts and our reach. I do not fear membership in a conference. It is not the end of the world for us, just a new chapter. But I will want us to have a conference that gives us great games (OSU, Mich, MSU, Whisky). I do not want it, but it likely will happen. The ACC is great, but it is doomed to die. The Big Ten would not want us to be a Northwestern, that would be stupid business, and after-all this is a business.

You are missing the point, which is that a small private school cannot have any power in any super rich league filled with, defined by, huge flagship and land grant schools.

And your reach is not close to what it was in 1990.

 

[WoadBlue]

Why would the SEC do this? It would solidify the ACC. For a long time, they would not do this because they were hoping to take a couple of the ACC’s top programs to complete their league.

But they are (at least in theory) complete now. There is no need to add ACC schools that frankly, are not as valuable as OU and Texas. So helping to solidify the ACC is no longer a problem for the SEC. In fact, given the anger and resentment expressed by the B12, P12 and B1G after the OU/Texas heist, they might find it in their interest to have an ally. And the most natural ally is the conference right next store.

But the biggest reason the SEC might do a solid for the ACC is to get the ACC to vote for the college playoff expansion. That is one thing they want that we could help them with.

What if a secret deal was brokered where the SEC agreed to a new rule requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the new playoff, in return for the ACC supporting the playoff expansion (after ND agreed to formally join the ACC for all sports)? That is what you arr proposing, correct?

The thing is, would a vote requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the football playoffs pass given strong support from the SEC?

We know the B1G would never left a finger to help anyone except themselves. But if the ACC offered the other conferences the same deal as the SEC, where they would vote for the playoff expansion in return for support for the new rule excluding independent schools from participating in the playoffs, would they do it?

I know the AAC would. The P12 surely would. And if history means anything, even the mighty B1G might do it if it meant getting the playoff expansion. They would be the conference most likely to say no though, given they still might want to add ND to their conference.

It would be a scum bag, sleazy move and a hell of a way to start a full marriage with the Irish. I am sure if the ACC was the SEC or the B1G, they would do it. In a minute. Can’t see the ACC doing it though. I think the presidents and boards of the ACC schools have too much integrity. I wouldn’t do it either. But like Jack Nicholson said, I cant handle the truth.

Yes, such a move is rather sleazy, but the ACC has been forced into a corner. ND73 is far from alone in saying the ACC is doomed. And unless the ACC gets a hefty raise to halfway keep up with the SEC and BT, it is doomed either to death or to be demoted and downgraded.

Disney is not the Disney founded by Walt and run so long by Roy. If anything, the Mouse now is anti-family and anti-tradition and very greedy. ACC ways are way out of date. I expect ESPN to make major demands of the ACC - like dumping Wake and BC - just to get a small increase - unless ND comes aboard as full football member.

If those are your choices, suicide is not honorable.

 

[nd1973]

You are missing the point, which is that a small private school cannot have any power in any super rich league filled with, defined by, huge flagship and land grant schools.

And your reach is not close to what it was in 1990.

You have no business understanding. You do not kill profitable entities. It is commonsense, but you can carry on think we'll be Northwestern. Hilarious.. done with this topic with you, can't debate someone not based in logic and business savvy.

 

[WoadBlue]

DId you count OU?

And a 9-3 with losses to Oklahoma, Georgia, Alabama but wins over A&M, Florida, Texas will be a bubble playoff team.

The Big Ten doesn’t have that depth.
SEC with Oklahoma and Texas is insanely deep.
Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida.
That is just 7 deep.

The conference without a cap on bids per conference could get 5 teams annually.

CORRECT!

SEC football already is nearly unbelievably deep. BT football is ACC football with much more money. Add Longhorns and Sooners, and SEC football is getting to a level more like MLB than Triple A.

 

[JimBoston]

If ESPN was smart they do what I have said.

Use the SEC to get ND into the ACC.
The SEC won’t care and it would hurt the B1G.

It’s not hard.

If ND ended up in the B1G people like me are happy. ND would get their money but be stuck under Ohio State and Michigan’s thumb in a Midwest landgrand conference.

They would get their money but it would bother old school ND fans.

If ND went with the ACC. The conference would get paid a lot more next contract and be the established 3rd conference.

The Big Ten played the ACC. The ACC needs to realize the status quo isn’t good but atleast forcing ND’s hand gets the end game.

The ACC can’t force ND’s hand but they can if they were actually smart run get the end game via ESPN and the SEC.

Look what is going on with the Big 10 media contract. It will be a huge payday for the Big 10. Notre Dame’s football media rights with NBC run through 2025 and if the Big 10 is getting $50+ million for their football media rights per school per year, ND will get close to that if not more. Why would ND take a huge pay cut to join the ACC?

 

[Alsacs]

Look what is going on with the Big 10 media contract. It will be a huge payday for the Big 10. Notre Dame’s football media rights with NBC run through 2025 and if the Big 10 is getting $50+ million for their football media rights per school per year, ND will get close to that if not more. Why would ND take a huge pay cut to join the ACC?

I explained the situation. What the logic would be.
Notre Dame isn’t gonna give up their independence unless they’re forced. I explained what I would do if I were the ACC.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Why would the SEC do this? It would solidify the ACC. For a long time, they would not do this because they were hoping to take a couple of the ACC’s top programs to complete their league.

But they are (at least in theory) complete now. There is no need to add ACC schools that frankly, are not as valuable as OU and Texas. So helping to solidify the ACC is no longer a problem for the SEC. In fact, given the anger and resentment expressed by the B12, P12 and B1G after the OU/Texas heist, they might find it in their interest to have an ally. And the most natural ally is the conference right next store.

But the biggest reason the SEC might do a solid for the ACC is to get the ACC to vote for the college playoff expansion. That is one thing they want that we could help them with.

What if a secret deal was brokered where the SEC agreed to a new rule requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the new playoff, in return for the ACC supporting the playoff expansion (after ND agreed to formally join the ACC for all sports)? That is what you arr proposing, correct?

The thing is, would a vote requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the football playoffs pass given strong support from the SEC?

We know the B1G would never left a finger to help anyone except themselves. But if the ACC offered the other conferences the same deal as the SEC, where they would vote for the playoff expansion in return for support for the new rule excluding independent schools from participating in the playoffs, would they do it?

I know the AAC would. The P12 surely would. And if history means anything, even the mighty B1G might do it if it meant getting the playoff expansion. They would be the conference most likely to say no though, given they still might want to add ND to their conference.

It would be a scum bag, sleazy move and a hell of a way to start a full marriage with the Irish. I am sure if the ACC was the SEC or the B1G, they would do it. In a minute. Can’t see the ACC doing it though. I think the presidents and boards of the ACC schools have too much integrity. I wouldn’t do it either. But like Jack Nicholson said, I cant handle the truth.

I never understood the alliance from the ACC's standpoint. The B1G wants the ACC schools, so you align with them instead of the SEC?

The SEC will go 3+6/6 or 6+3/3/3. On top of that they should have an alliance with the ACC/ND and the B12. If the B1G is stuck with only P12 OOC games they will be hurt.

SEC 9+1
B12 9+1 only allow BYU/Utah and Iowa State/Iowa as exemptions
ACC 8+2
ND only allow USC/Stanford as exemptions

Eventually ND will join the ACC IMO as long as the ACC is still together.

The B12 probably should go to 16 as well. Add 3 in the West from San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State, UNLV, Colorado State and 1 in the East Memphis or USF. So if the ACC want to play nice, then #16 will be either Temple or UConn.

 

[SU68]

I have long wondered why NBC did not get another CFB property to pair with Notre Dame.
It could happen ...

NBC To Make Big Push For Big Ten Media Rights

"If I’m ESPN or Fox, I’m looking over my shoulder because NBC is going to go hard after the Big Ten,” a source told FOS.

frontofficesports.com

"In 2011, NBC agreed to a $4.38 billion contract with the International Olympic Committee to broadcast the Olympics through the 2020 games, the most expensive television rights deal in Olympic history."
NBC rolled the dice as being a bigger deal than college football and have lost big-time financially. They may be trying to diversify now.

 

[SU68]

To be eligible for the CFB you must be in a conference.

If that was a rule ND would join a conference.
The ACC can’t propose this.
The SEC could.

It may be in the SEC's best interest for ND to be in the ACC. If CFP goes to the P-5 champions plus at-large teams, it would free up a slot in most years since ND would probably win/lose the ACC championship.

 

[Alsacs]

ACC needs ESPN and NBC to lose the Big Ten rights.

If Fox and CBS get Big Ten.
NBC would only have ND and remain irrelevant.

ESPN has the SEC and ACC.
If the ACC wants more money it has to win and develop a deep roster of successful teams or get ND.

If the ACC were smart they follow the steps i have laid down.

That is their best bet.

ACC chose poorly aligning with the Big Ten.
Pull out now.

 

[Hoo's That]

Why would the SEC do this? It would solidify the ACC. For a long time, they would not do this because they were hoping to take a couple of the ACC’s top programs to complete their league.

But they are (at least in theory) complete now. There is no need to add ACC schools that frankly, are not as valuable as OU and Texas. So helping to solidify the ACC is no longer a problem for the SEC. In fact, given the anger and resentment expressed by the B12, P12 and B1G after the OU/Texas heist, they might find it in their interest to have an ally. And the most natural ally is the conference right next store.

But the biggest reason the SEC might do a solid for the ACC is to get the ACC to vote for the college playoff expansion. That is one thing they want that we could help them with.

What if a secret deal was brokered where the SEC agreed to a new rule requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the new playoff, in return for the ACC supporting the playoff expansion (after ND agreed to formally join the ACC for all sports)? That is what you arr proposing, correct?

The thing is, would a vote requiring schools to be a member of a conference to be eligible for the football playoffs pass given strong support from the SEC?

We know the B1G would never left a finger to help anyone except themselves. But if the ACC offered the other conferences the same deal as the SEC, where they would vote for the playoff expansion in return for support for the new rule excluding independent schools from participating in the playoffs, would they do it?

I know the AAC would. The P12 surely would. And if history means anything, even the mighty B1G might do it if it meant getting the playoff expansion. They would be the conference most likely to say no though, given they still might want to add ND to their conference.

It would be a scum bag, sleazy move and a hell of a way to start a full marriage with the Irish. I am sure if the ACC was the SEC or the B1G, they would do it. In a minute. Can’t see the ACC doing it though. I think the presidents and boards of the ACC schools have too much integrity. I wouldn’t do it either. But like Jack Nicholson said, I cant handle the truth.

An easy way to start getting the ACC on their side would be to vote in favor of allowing 3-5-5 scheduling. If they went to 9 games, they could play 3-6-6 instead of instead of becoming pod people when Texas and Oklahoma join.

 

[WoadBlue]

ACC needs ESPN and NBC to lose the Big Ten rights.

If Fox and CBS get Big Ten.
NBC would only have ND and remain irrelevant.

ESPN has the SEC and ACC.
If the ACC wants more money it has to win and develop a deep roster of successful teams or get ND.

If the ACC were smart they follow the steps i have laid down.

That is their best bet.

ACC chose poorly aligning with the Big Ten.
Pull out now.

The BT from its inception has been, literally, the conference of, by, and for midwestern Gilded Age Robber Barons. The BT always has been obsessed with money and political connections and power, and its has used them to harm competition. What the BT, and its historically most powerful and influential member Michigan, did to ND is only part of the BT pattern across more than a century.

The BT can never be trusted. By anyone or anything.

 

[WoadBlue]

An easy way to start getting the ACC on their side would be to vote in favor of allowing 3-5-5 scheduling. If they went to 9 games, they could play 3-6-6 instead of instead of becoming pod people when Texas and Oklahoma join.

The SEC has a major issue with schools upset at not getting to play certain teams and in certain states (FL, GA, and TX especially) nearly as often as they would like. Ending divisions would solve that issue for the SEC.

 

[WoadBlue]

You have no business understanding. You do not kill profitable entities. It is commonsense, but you can carry on think we'll be Northwestern. Hilarious.. done with this topic with you, can't debate someone not based in logic and business savvy.

You do not understand what I am saying. The BT no more would want to downgrade ND football than the ACC wanted to see Miami football become what we have seen.

What I am saying is that a conference is run as a corporation. There always is Power in a conference; there always is a small group more powerful than the rest of the members. The most obvious example of what I mean is Texas, which was the sole Power in the SWC, and which very quickly displaced every old Big 8 team from any power in the Big XII. Even OU has been just a sidekick to Texas in the Big XII - not in terms of who wins league titles in football, but in who controls the league.

The BT is defined by gigantic Flagship and/or Land Grant universities. Each of them (save Rutgers, for historical reasons having to do with the northeast) have very old power in state, and regional, politics. BT Power is not limited to scheduling games, not even close. It is true major political and economic power. No small private school can enter into that club and become a power broker within it. If ND also had Duke's basketball history and Miami's baseball history and Syracuse's lacrosse history, it still could not get into the center of BT Power.

In the BT, ND always would remain an outlier in terms of conference power brokers. ND football finally could win another National Championship, and ND still would not be able to more than sniff the power that Michigan and Ohio St have. Both those schools and other gigantic BT members would be more than happy for ND to win football games, and remain no more powerful in league leadership than Northwestern is now.

 

[longtimefan]

The SEC has a major issue with schools upset at not getting to play certain teams and in certain states (FL, GA, and TX especially) nearly as often as they would like. Ending divisions would solve that issue for the SEC.

Eliminating the division requirement would give all of the P5 great flexibility in determining their champions.It's hard to understand why they've stuck with the division system this long.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Alsacs]

You do not understand what I am saying. The BT no more would want to downgrade ND football than the ACC wanted to see Miami football become what we have seen.

What I am saying is that a conference is run as a corporation. There always is Power in a conference; there always is a small group more powerful than the rest of the members. The most obvious example of what I mean is Texas, which was the sole Power in the SWC, and which very quickly displaced every old Big 8 team from any power in the Big XII. Even OU has been just a sidekick to Texas in the Big XII - not in terms of who wins league titles in football, but in who controls the league.

The BT is defined by gigantic Flagship and/or Land Grant universities. Each of them (save Rutgers, for historical reasons having to do with the northeast) have very old power in state, and regional, politics. BT Power is not limited to scheduling games, not even close. It is true major political and economic power. No small private school can enter into that club and become a power broker within it. If ND also had Duke's basketball history and Miami's baseball history and Syracuse's lacrosse history, it still could not get into the center of BT Power.

In the BT, ND always would remain an outlier in terms of conference power brokers. ND football finally could win another National Championship, and ND still would not be able to more than sniff the power that Michigan and Ohio St have. Both those schools and other gigantic BT members would be more than happy for ND to win football games, and remain no more powerful in league leadership than Northwestern is now.

I want ND to have to join the Big Ten.
I know it hurts the ACC but it would be poetic justice for the ND fanbase.

School would get paid but ask Penn State what they think of Big Ten leadership.
Notre Dame would be an outlier and wouldn’t have the influence anymore.

It would get its money but would lose influence.
The Big Ten will always be Ohio State and Michigan with the power:

Notre Dame with 12 landgrant univerisites, Rutgers and Northwestern would be great.

That is why the ACC not using ESPN to get the SEC to do its dirty work is stupid.

The ACC could back an expanded playoff while ESPN still has exclusivity and make the network more money and ESPN could get the SEC to propose you must be in a conference to be eligible.

Watch what ND would do.