The alliance scheduling agreement already looks dead in football

[orangecuse]

Short memory? You used to talk it up all the time. Maybe you evolved your position in the face of “business”? That’s cool - I’m assuming that it mirrors ND’s own priorities.

You equate “joining a conference” with being against their best interests which is most definitely a matter of opinion and not all that clear. In fact it’s likely that it absolutely is in their best business interests to join one financially. If they choose the ACC it’s the best of both worlds (relative power sharing and money vs B1G/SEC where it’s more money at the cost of power and clout).

Your interests align better with the ACC than anywhere else. The benefits out weigh nostalgia.

I agree that their interests align better with the ACC. As you and others have mentioned, if they go to the B1G they'll get considerably more coin, however, undoubtedly they will lose panache and clout. They are a small private school stuck in a geographical location that is a fish out of water, surrounded by huge state flagship land grant schools. Perhaps, not as much as the likes of the Northwestern, but they will be relegated to servant type status to OSU, UM and others.

Of course ND's powers that be realize this, and it plays a considerable part in why today they still want nothing to do with the B1G, but only as a last resort.

Needless to say, I think that most folks realize that naturally ND will operate in its best interests as any other school would, etc. However, I believe what draws the ire of folks, is the arrangement of one foot in the door and the other one out. The ACC has enabled ND to get away with it, just as the Big East did beforehand. Allowing them to have their cake and eat it too kind of thing.

I wish that the ACC was in a better position to give them the ultimatum to join as a full time member or you are out. Let them have to struggle with all of its other sports teams, filling schedules, etc. or make them choose once and for all. Again, the "independence" IMO is a complete facade. If it weren't, then all of its other sports teams playing for the same institution wouldn't be in one either.

 

[baggerbob]

I want ND to have to join the Big Ten.
I know it hurts the ACC but it would be poetic justice for the ND fanbase.

School would get paid but ask Penn State what they think of Big Ten leadership.
Notre Dame would be an outlier and wouldn’t have the influence anymore.

It would get its money but would lose influence.
The Big Ten will always be Ohio State and Michigan with the power:

Notre Dame with 12 landgrant univerisites, Rutgers and Northwestern would be great.

That is why the ACC not using ESPN to get the SEC to do its dirty work is stupid.

The ACC could back an expanded playoff while ESPN still has exclusivity and make the network more money and ESPN could get the SEC to propose you must be in a conference to be eligible.

Watch what ND would do.

Swofford pretty much destroyed the conference to benefit his son. The ACC is now in a position with ESPN where they won't exist until the end of the contract.
The Big 12 is in a better place, because if the new teams coming in do well, they can get more money.

 

[Alsacs]

Swofford pretty much destroyed the conference to benefit his son. The ACC is now in a position with ESPN where they won't exist until the end of the contract.
The Big 12 is in a better place, because if the new teams coming in do well, they can get more money.

ACC is better position than Big XII.
3 TX teams none of them are the most valuable TX teams.
Iowa State, two Kansas schools, West Virginia, less valuable Oklahoma school.

Its all in one small region.
The Big XII will get enough money to be part of the P5 but they can’t pass the ACC when it can go on the open market.
Plus ACCN on TV gets more than Big XII being on ESPN+ without getting guaranteed revenue like the ACCN will.

Big XII had the guts ripped out.

 

[syrBossHogg]

 

[Alsacs]

Lol the ACC got played.

 

[David321]

I want ND to have to join the Big Ten.
I know it hurts the ACC but it would be poetic justice for the ND fanbase.

School would get paid but ask Penn State what they think of Big Ten leadership.
Notre Dame would be an outlier and wouldn’t have the influence anymore.

It would get its money but would lose influence.
The Big Ten will always be Ohio State and Michigan with the power:

Notre Dame with 12 landgrant univerisites, Rutgers and Northwestern would be great.

That is why the ACC not using ESPN to get the SEC to do its dirty work is stupid.

The ACC could back an expanded playoff while ESPN still has exclusivity and make the network more money and ESPN could get the SEC to propose you must be in a conference to be eligible.

Watch what ND would do.

ND can’t join a conference other than the ACC until 2036.

 

[Alsacs]

ND can’t join a conference other than the ACC until 2036.

ND football isn’t signed to a GOR.

If ND wants to join another conference it will and can.

They own their most valuable property.

 

[Hoo's That]

ND football isn’t signed to a GOR.

If ND wants to join another conference it will and can.

They own their most valuable property.

However, they are contractually obligated to join the ACC if they join a conference before the ACCN contract, which they signed and agreed to the extension from 2026, expires in 2036. You can call leaving the their ACC for another conference whatever you want, but I'll choose to call it a "major (i.e. expensive for ND and its new conference) lawsuit."

 

[Alsacs]

However, they are contractually obligated to join the ACC if they join a conference before the ACCN contract, which they signed and agreed to the extension from 2026, expires in 2036. You can call leaving the their ACC for another conference whatever you want, but I'll choose to call it a "major (i.e. expensive for ND and its new conference) lawsuit."

If ND wanted to leave they would leave.
ND wants the status quo which isn’t good for the ACC.

I have outlined what the ACC should do.

 

[David321]

ND football isn’t signed to a GOR.

If ND wants to join another conference it will and can.

They own their most valuable property.

That’s not what I’ve read in numerous published reports from many reputable sources. I’m going to need to see a very solid link to believe this

 

[Alsacs]

That’s not what I’ve read in numerous published reports from many reputable sources. I’m going to need to see a very solid link to believe this

They have a contract to join the ACC it’s for perception.
ND doesn’t have a GOR.

If they wanted to join the Big Ten before 2036 they would be able to do it.

 

[David321]

They have a contract to join the ACC it’s for perception.
ND doesn’t have a GOR.

If they wanted to join the Big Ten before 2036 they would be able to do it.

Can you please provide a link that disproves the numerous published reports that ND can’t join any other conference other than the ACC in football until 2036? Right now all I have is your word.

 

[Alsacs]

Can you please provide a link that disproves the numerous published reports that ND can’t join any other conference other than the ACC in football until 2036? Right now all I have is your word.

What monetary damages do the ACC suffer if ND wanted to join another conference.

ND football isn’t part of the Acc GOR.

Contracts can always be defeated by good attorneys.

ND doesn’t want to join another conference but if they did they would find a way to get it.
Even if their basketball and Olympic sports stayed with the ACC rights till 2036.

Football is 80% of the value.

 

[WoadBlue]

If you want an answer and aren’t doing the routine you do sometimes I will explain.

Big Ten is in bed with Fox.
Fox wants into the CFB playoffs.

ESPN wanted expansion now because they control the rights exclusively and have exclusive window to negotiate.

ESPN and SEC are aligned.

Fox wants in and the Big Ten wants to help them.

The ACC took the position against ESPN and has been played by the Big Ten.
The ACC needs to realize this and while they can’t be happy with the SEC what its doing has to realize the SEC isn’t their enemy as much as the Big Ten.

The SEC doesn’t want to poach the ACC the Big Ten’s end game would want that.

The BT is everybody's enemy, not the open kind of enemy but the kind that when convenient smiles at you and then when you turn your back strikes while proclaiming innocence, which is quickly followed by loud proclamations of doing nothing but looking out for its own best interests just like everybody else.

For BT football to ever have any chance to come close to the deep quality (and the quality of its top 2 teams most years), the BT must expand into the South. Having UVA and UNC would not be enough to do the trick. To have any chance to get close to SEC football, the BT must expand to at least 20, with all 6 new members in the South, preferably in 5 states: VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL.

Anything less than that will leave the SEC in full charge of football quality. The BT always has been filthy rich and will always be filthy rich: the only way that BT football can catch up to the SEC is to be planted deeply in the South.

And that is also the way that the BT can give its final middle finger to ND: leave it out and forced to make a deal with the Pac or else join the SEC.

 

[WoadBlue]

ACC is better position than Big XII.
3 TX teams none of them are the most valuable TX teams.
Iowa State, two Kansas schools, West Virginia, less valuable Oklahoma school.

Its all in one small region.
The Big XII will get enough money to be part of the P5 but they can’t pass the ACC when it can go on the open market.
Plus ACCN on TV gets more than Big XII being on ESPN+ without getting guaranteed revenue like the ACCN will.

Big XII had the guts ripped out.

The only reason the ACC is not definitely better off than the Pac is that Rose Bowl is still allowed to be 'the biggest deal' among bowls, and the BT wants to hold onto that. If the Rose loses any unique standing, the BT may well care less than nothing about the Pac, which for years has had the smallest number of TV viewers for both revenue sports from among the P5.

 

[David321]

There’s obviously an element of competition between the conferences because of money etc but some of you guys make it sound like Game of Thrones. I think some might be overthinking things a bit.

 

[Alsacs]

There’s obviously an element of competition between the conferences because of money etc but some of you guys make it sound like Game of Thrones. I think some might be overthinking things a bit.

What are the penalties if ND wanted to join another conference?
Again the ACC doesn’t own ND’s football rights.
That alone makes any penalty likely insignificant.
ND doesn’t want to join another conference anyway.

My whole points in this thread are the ACC should stop working with the Big Ten and work with the SEC to force ND to make a decision.

 

[David321]

What are the penalties if ND wanted to join another conference?
Again the ACC doesn’t own ND’s football rights.
That alone makes any penalty likely insignificant.
ND doesn’t want to join another conference anyway.

My whole points in this thread are the ACC should stop working with the Big Ten and work with the SEC to force ND to make a decision.

Well I do agree with your ultimate point.

 

[Toga]

The only reason the ACC is not definitely better off than the Pac is that Rose Bowl is still allowed to be 'the biggest deal' among bowls, and the BT wants to hold onto that. If the Rose loses any unique standing, the BT may well care less than nothing about the Pac, which for years has had the smallest number of TV viewers for both revenue sports from among the P5.

True in the past. IDK if still true. Does the average CFB fan care about which top bowl is which in the era of the playoffs?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The BT is everybody's enemy, not the open kind of enemy but the kind that when convenient smiles at you and then when you turn your back strikes while proclaiming innocence, which is quickly followed by loud proclamations of doing nothing but looking out for its own best interests just like everybody else.

For BT football to ever have any chance to come close to the deep quality (and the quality of its top 2 teams most years), the BT must expand into the South. Having UVA and UNC would not be enough to do the trick. To have any chance to get close to SEC football, the BT must expand to at least 20, with all 6 new members in the South, preferably in 5 states: VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL.

Anything less than that will leave the SEC in full charge of football quality. The BT always has been filthy rich and will always be filthy rich: the only way that BT football can catch up to the SEC is to be planted deeply in the South.

And that is also the way that the BT can give its final middle finger to ND: leave it out and forced to make a deal with the Pac or else join the SEC.

The B1G would need to go to at least 24 teams if it wanted to get into the South. Do you really think they go that route when they can let the ACC survive and not allow the SEC to get into VA and NC which would hurt the B1G's move South? What good is moving South to have the 2nd fiddle in each state?

The only real way for the B1G to hurt the SEC is for them to take the best ACC, B12, and P12 schools available plus the low hanging SEC fruit. Then only play each other all 12 games and don't participate in the playoffs, only have a 8 team B1G tournament with the B1G CG being at the Rose Bowl. But the chances of that happening are very slim.

 

[Chris02M]

What are the penalties if ND wanted to join another conference?
Again the ACC doesn’t own ND’s football rights.
That alone makes any penalty likely insignificant.
ND doesn’t want to join another conference anyway.

My whole points in this thread are the ACC should stop working with the Big Ten and work with the SEC to force ND to make a decision.

They have the acc network agreement which in addition to the agreement with espn which requires them to join us if they feel the itch to join a conference plus 2 to 3 football games a season plus bowl money and ncaa tournament credit money. Just doing a rough guess probably close to 100million in damages. Your hatred for ND is making you not think legally as a contract is a contract. The agreement with ND was a good short term move to prove that were not going away but yes at this point trying to work behind the scenes to force ND's hand if the sec helps us with the scheduling problem would be the way i would go but maybe we tried and sec wouldnt play ball.

 

[Alsacs]

They have the acc network agreement which in addition to the agreement with espn which requires them to join us if they feel the itch to join a conference plus 2 to 3 football games a season plus bowl money and ncaa tournament credit money. Just doing a rough guess probably close to 100million in damages. Your hatred for ND is making you not think legally as a contract is a contract. The agreement with ND was a good short term move to prove that were not going away but yes at this point trying to work behind the scenes to force ND's hand if the sec helps us with the scheduling problem would bethe way i would go but maybe we tried and sec wouldnt play ball.

Contracts are broken all the time.
That contract is too ND benefit if people are honest.
My dislike of ND has nothing to do with this.

My whole point is that contract isn’t keeping ND from joining another conference if they decided they wanted to join another conference other than the ACC.

It’s pretty simple.
I have seen noncompete contracts a LOT more strict defeated in court.

The agreement with ND was put on paper so the ACC could have standing to get something on paper.

If the ACC were smart they would do what i have suggested. Stop working with the Big Ten and work with ESPN to back channel the SEC and force a resolution that gets ND to have to join a conference to be eligible for the CFB.

Stop the status quo. The status quo will hurt the ACC long term.

 

[Chris02M]

Contracts are broken all the time.
That contract is too ND benefit if people are honest.
My dislike of ND has nothing to do with this.

My whole point is that contract isn’t keeping ND from joining another conference if they decided they wanted to join another conference other than the ACC.

It’s pretty simple.
I have seen noncompete contracts a LOT more strict defeated in court.

The agreement with ND was put on paper so the ACC could have standing to get something on paper.

If the ACC were smart they would do what i have suggested. Stop working with the Big Ten and work with ESPN to back channel the SEC and force a resolution that gets ND to have to join a conference to be eligible for the CFB.

Stop the status quo. The status quo will hurt the ACC long term.

your point may be right on the agreement not stopping Nd but the current status quo doesnt really hurt the acc as they stay solidly 3rd

 

[Alsacs]

your point may be right on the agreement not stopping Nd but the current status quo doesnt really hurt the acc as they stay solidly 3rd

You realize that isn’t okay with Florida State and Clemson.

The conference needs to keep UNC and those schools happy.

The Big Ten can’t get UNC now but they haven’t tried to break the ACC competely because of the pieces they have targeted.

I don’t get how people don’t see this.
The SEC doesn’t care to bother with the ACC.
The Big Ten went for pieces that aren’t interested.
If the ACC doesn’t do everything to try and close that gap to keep it close then Florida State/Miami/Georgia Tech/Clemson haven’t been approached by the Big Ten.

You think they are UNC/UVa?
I don’t.

Thus ND is the only blue chip that could change things.
ND could get power from the ACC they won’t with the Big Ten.

Instead the ACC is aligning with Big Ten while the Big Ten gets paid to keep it level with the SEC.
The ACC needs to actually for once get this chit.

 

[CousCuse]

You realize that isn’t okay with Florida State and Clemson.

The conference needs to keep UNC and those schools happy.

The Big Ten can’t get UNC now but they haven’t tried to break the ACC competely because of the pieces they have targeted.

I don’t get how people don’t see this.
The SEC doesn’t care to bother with the ACC.
The Big Ten went for pieces that aren’t interested.
If the ACC doesn’t do everything to try and close that gap to keep it close then Florida State/Miami/Georgia Tech/Clemson haven’t been approached by the Big Ten.

You think they are UNC/UVa?
I don’t.

Thus ND is the only blue chip that could change things.
ND could get power from the ACC they won’t with the Big Ten.

Instead the ACC is aligning with Big Ten while the Big Ten gets paid to keep it level with the SEC.
The ACC needs to actually for once get this chit.

The Notre Dame posters have already shown their hand. When Notre Dame is forced to decide, they will go for the B1G money. The ACC has to come up with a different strategy. They need to get to 16 teams and form a scheduling alliance with the SEC. They should discuss with the SEC what 2 teams would most benefit that plan. If they added the 2 teams I suggested, the ACC/SEC alliance would lock up the east coast from New England to Florida as well as all of the south. It would severely damage the B1G's eastern teams and block the B1G from any chance to expand east or south.The B1G needs the ACC to fracture to attain their goals. The SEC needs the ACC to remain to attain their goals.