The board bashing of Coach

[hoopsupstate]

Exactly. Red and the coaches should stop practice and make the team run suicides every time a player doesn’t fight over a screen on the perimeter, slide their feet as the defender (looking at you JJ), rotate quick enough on help defense and other fundamental defensive issues. It’s unacceptable. Accountability is needed, and hopefully it’s coming.

They would all be ready for the track team after practice

 

[Knicks411]

It's a common refrain to point to a great player or coach who wasnt so great when they were starting out as if that's proof that the current guy who isn't doing well right now will eventually turn it around, but you know who else wasn't a great coach at the beginning? Thousands of bad coaches! Those guys are probably a lot more relevant than Coach K or Willie Mays or whoever.


I guess I'm mostly speaking generally, I dont think Red has been like awful, but it's not really an encouraging start.

 

[djcon57]

It's a common refrain to point to a great player or coach who wasnt so great when they were starting out as if that's proof that the current guy who isn't doing well right now will eventually turn it around, but you know who else wasn't a great coach at the beginning? Thousands of bad coaches! Those guys are probably a lot more relevant than Coach K or Willie Mays or whoever.


I guess I'm mostly speaking generally, I dont think Red has been like awful, but it's not really an encouraging start.

It’s the ol “Peyton Manning threw a lot of INTs in his first season” excuse for every nfl rookie that sucks.

Like there arent 10 Jamarcus Russells for every Manning

 

[atlanticuse]

lol i love that idea that Red and the GM sat down, broke out the analytics software, and were like "Look, what we really need this year is an undersized center who can barely move and a starting point guard who would be the seventh pick at the after-work pickup game at an LA Fitness"

but he had a great preseason.

 

[Eric15]

The Texas game is going to reveal a lot. They're a solid but not elite team.

If we come out and play a back and forth game and end up losing by 6-8 points, OK, it's not the end of the world. If they blow us out, then we know we have major problems. And Red deserves to be criticized.

 

[dasher]

Results? Boeheim lost to these teams for a couple of years. Amazing people forget that part. Never this bad? The team is undefeated and they have played terribly. Just got a top 5 recruiting class (something JB didn’t do ever from my research) in the hardest time to get a player ever with NIL. Just signed a legacy recruit of the biggest legacy the program may have.

And it’s so funny that if they win these games by 10-12 everyone is so happy and jolly and praising Red.

How about getting Donnie Freeman for only 150k in NIL? He had offers that were 3x-4x that and chose to PLAY FOR RED.

I bet all the complainers on here too have never met Red, never talked to him or anything like that. Because if you got the opportunity to, you would realize how great of a person he is and how much he knows about the game and how much he loves Syracuse.

Lastlt, I think the team could go undefeated winning games by 2 points all year and some of you would still complain. And no this isn’t directly aimed at you, it’s aimed at everyone that continues to be such a downer 3 games in to the season and acting like little babies that it’s over. Want the team to get better? Stop complaining and donate…

One thing, 7 of the top 12 players in the class of '25 according to espn, haven't committed yet. When they do, our top 5 recruiting class will drop in the ratings. Second, we got 2 top 10 players according to one mag back in '87 along with three other real good players so that must have been a top 5 recruiting class.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

All I'm going to say is, if it was Jim Boeheim on the sidelines with these results, it would be beyond chaos. We were never this bad and Jim dealt with a lot of criticism, which was all fair, and Red is getting less with a worse product. What we've watched is embarrassing.

Really: the JB who was on the sidelines the last couple of years would have lost at least one of these games, and probably all 3.

 

[Scott11]

Results? Boeheim lost to these teams for a couple of years. Amazing people forget that part. Never this bad? The team is undefeated and they have played terribly. Just got a top 5 recruiting class (something JB didn’t do ever from my research) in the hardest time to get a player ever with NIL. Just signed a legacy recruit of the biggest legacy the program may have.

And it’s so funny that if they win these games by 10-12 everyone is so happy and jolly and praising Red.

How about getting Donnie Freeman for only 150k in NIL? He had offers that were 3x-4x that and chose to PLAY FOR RED.

I bet all the complainers on here too have never met Red, never talked to him or anything like that. Because if you got the opportunity to, you would realize how great of a person he is and how much he knows about the game and how much he loves Syracuse.

Lastlt, I think the team could go undefeated winning games by 2 points all year and some of you would still complain. And no this isn’t directly aimed at you, it’s aimed at everyone that continues to be such a downer 3 games in to the season and acting like little babies that it’s over. Want the team to get better? Stop complaining and donate…

Just out of curiosity and not trying to pick a battle, but what does it matter who has talked to Red and who thinks he’s a nice guy? I’ve spoken to him many times including when were both at Syracuse and I’m very impressed with the person he is but I have to admit I’m scared to death of what I’ve seen so far this season.

i’m not sure what your point is that we would all be happy if they won by 12 points or so. Isn’t that incredibly obvious? Of course, we would all be happy if we comfortably won games against inferior opponents, as opposed to being in a position to potentially lose all three.

 

[phil77]

Like JB a lot of people on this board have a strong relationship with Red which makes the criticism even harder for some to take. I don't think I have seen much bashing of Red by all accounts Red is a great person and very knowledgeable about that game but that doesn't automatically make you a great head coach. Questioning the way the team played last year as well as this year is warranted. Questioning if Red has the ability to be a super successful head coach at the P4 level is totally justified and it is up to Red to prove he can do it.

 

[Scott11]

One thing, 7 of the top 12 players in the class of '25 according to espn, haven't committed yet. When they do, our top 5 recruiting class will drop in the ratings. Second, we got 2 top 10 players according to one mag back in '87 along with three other real good players so that must have been a top 5 recruiting class.

I’m pretty sure the class with Billy Owens, Manning, Johnson, Siock, Scott, etc. was a top five class.

 

[HyattsCuse]

Just got a top 5 recruiting class (something JB didn’t do ever from my research)

Syracuse 2007 Basketball Commits

Syracuse

247sports.com

Thought this class was pretty highly ranked.

 

[Cuse117]

Part of getting compensated well for your job is added scrutiny. The current state of the program is a debacle compared to a vast majority of my life, so welcome to the real world. This goes for the players too now, you want to be paid for your services, it comes with the territory.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

I haven’t seen any bashing. Just critique. No one is questioning Autry’s intelligence or work ethic. People are upset about the quality of play we are supporting.

 

[Bulldog04]

Just out of curiosity and not trying to pick a battle, but what does it matter who has talked to Red and who thinks he’s a nice guy? I’ve spoken to him many times including when we are both at Syracuse and I’m very impressed with the person he is but I have to admit I’m scared to death of what I’ve seen so far this season.

i’m not sure what your point is that we would all be happy if they won by 12 points or so. Isn’t that incredibly obvious? Of course, we would all be happy if we comfortably won games against inferior opponents, as opposed to being in a position to potentially lose all three.

No battle ever that’s the point of open forum and free speech and opinion. I just think there’s so much that goes into being a head coach that people miss. Hence why I brought up meeting Red for those who haven’t to understand the guy and what he stands for. Could he improve the coaching? No question, everyone can.

I’ll share a story as to why I feel for Red win lose or whatever. I teach golf for a living and have been in the business a long time. My mentor and former boss who got me into teaching and being a golf pro taught and still teaches the best players in the world. I was around them and helping them and playing golf with them everyday at our club for a decade. I was never nervous when they went out to play on tour or played poorly bc my boss had to deal with how they played. Fast forward to 2 years ago and I get asked to teach a top 75 in the world pga tour player. I fully believe in my capabilities to help him in every area of the game, but sometimes what we work on doesn’t translate to success and sometimes it looks like I’m the smartest person in the world. It’s hard to be great alllll the time and that’s where I wish people would be a little patient. But the moral of the story is this is a work in progress everyday no matter what profession. Red knows his shortcomings as much as I know mine, but there’s not a minute that goes by where I don’t think he’s trying to figure it out and get better because that’s his character and work ethic. This isn’t a Babers situation. That guy didn’t try to get better ever. Red is trying and he will continue to. And if he doesn’t get better, you will hear me loud and clear too with the rest of you…

 

[CardiacCuse]

Red will be fine. He finally is going to be getting “his” players in hear next season and i for one cant wait.

what happens if the same issues we have seen in years 1 and 2 ...also pop up in year 3?

would it then be about the coach or still the players?

some things ive seen in years 1 and 2:
i.e. zero to no effective scheming on defense...pathetic coordination of players on both sides of the ball

starting the season looking like the players just met in the lockerroom

mismatched rosters with gaping holes at key positions

a lot of roster spots given to players that have zero chance of doing anything beneficial for the team

no discernible offensive plan for the most part other than 1 on 1 and passing the ball arund the perimeter

etc

hopefully "red's real guys" just know how to play bball without being directed bc it seems when he has those guys that need their hands held ...its not working

aside from that, isnt it the coaches job to put the roster together?!!! so how exactly is a poorly cnstructed roster anyone fault but reds???

( I am not calling for impatience with red , exactly, just saying, the issues people are notcing with him so far are very valid)

i hope he can figure it out but the issues that we are seeing are also worrying

 

[SoBristol]

I think some here need to sort out their views of this team and which part of Red’s work you don’t admire. It is hard to fault his regular high school recruiting - Freeman, Moore and a top 10 class for next season, lacking only a center.

The current group of transfers - not so good as we need to be a tournament team (my opinion). We lost out to bigger NIL deep pockets. Red’s fault?

With the current roster, you think we should be playing better defense and winning by bigger margins? Seriously - with this line-up?

Some have posted that we don’t have legitimate ACC talent other than Starling (who has had one big game and 2 rather average games). Or we have good talent, if only Red were better at Xs and Os and coaching defense?

 

[djcon57]

You think we should be playing better defense and winning by bigger margins?

I'd like to see some sort of concept on defense regardless of talent, yes.

I'll give you an example. Earlier this season, the Special Teams on football was a complete dumpster fire. We were told by some on the board, we don't have the talent, etc. Fran took accountability said he was going to fix it and slowly, as of the last couple weeks, the special teams has been, at worst, good...and imo you could even say stellar.

I get JJ, Bell, etc arent good defenders. This was baked into the cake when you made the roster!

If the idea was "I'll coach them to be better defenders", then he's failed. They don't look better. Therefore, the next step is to come up with something to accentuate their positives if possible...or at least hide them the best he can.

TLDR; Yeah, we should be playing better defense.

 

[Scooch]

Red will be fine. He finally is going to be getting “his” players in hear next season and i for one cant wait.

If we had a massive NIL fund (and i mean top 5) then i am sure the portal selections would have been a little meatier.

Its the same as when people were questioning fran after pitt and bc. The world definitely is different than when i was growing up in terms of patience and it sucks.

When did you grow up? Wasn’t there a Sack Mac pack in the early 1980s. People have always been impatient with coaches. They just have more ways to express it now.

 

[Ottoman]

what happens if the same issues we have seen in years 1 and 2 ...also pop up in year 3?

would it then be about the coach or still the players?

some things ive seen in years 1 and 2:
i.e. zero to no effective scheming on defense...pathetic coordination of players on both sides of the ball

starting the season looking like the players just met in the lockerroom

mismatched rosters with gaping holes at key positions

a lot of roster spots given to players that have zero chance of doing anything beneficial for the team

no discernible offensive plan for the most part other than 1 on 1 and passing the ball arund the perimeter

etc

hopefully "red's real guys" just know how to play bball without being directed bc it seems when he has those guys that need their hands held ...its not working

aside from that, isnt it the coaches job to put the roster together?!!! so how exactly is a poorly cnstructed roster anyone fault but reds???

( I am not calling for impatience with red , exactly, just saying, the issues people are notcing with him so far are very valid)

i hope he can figure it out but the issues that we are seeing are also worrying

That's a pretty good list, I think. Last year it also became clear that the players did not respect the staff. That could be just a bad bunch of players, but it is concerning and worth keeping an eye on going forward.

To be fair, this staff has had some impressive highschool recruiting wins lately. The team has also put up solid offensive numbers. By all accounts they are also great representatives of the school and our basketball brand.

 

[kcsu]

As a kid, I played all kinds of sports: baseball, basketball, football, golf, and even shot a lot of pool. By my junior year in high school, I had pretty much quit playing team sports—too slow for baseball, didn’t enjoy getting hit in football, and, honestly, I wasn’t very good at basketball. However, I did become a decent golfer. In my mid-20s, up until my daughter was born in my late 30s, I carried a single-digit handicap, which put me ahead of most golfers. Even though I stopped playing team sports, I’ve always enjoyed watching them, especially Syracuse basketball and football.
Now in my early 70s, after decades of watching sports, I’ve come to realize that; I don't know anything about coaching and teams with a mix of good players and one or two great players tend to win a lot of games—even if the coach isn’t the best.
Coach Autry inherited the SU program without many good players and no great players. Winning 20 games last year with that roster was, in my opinion, a testament to pretty good coaching. Last year started much like this one, but the team improved over the season and became respectable by the end.

I doubt Carmelo would want his son playing for a lousy coach. he may know a little more about basketball than most of us on this board, If he didn’t believe Red could make his son a better player and build a championship-caliber team, his son wouldn’t have signed with SU. Next year’s recruiting class is top ten in the nation, so let’s stop bashing the coach.
Every great program has its ups and downs. UCLA, Kentucky, Indiana, and North Carolina have all had stretches of mediocrity, and now it’s Syracuse’s turn. Building a winning team takes time, and it’s not always a smooth process. Coach Autry sat next to one of the top five college coaches for years. He’s passionate about SU, he’s a good man, and will be successful.

Chill out and enjoy the journey.

Who has been bashing Red. Critical sure. But bashing I don't see it.
Red can recruit with the best of them and as his Mentor used to say it's about the players so I do believe he is going to do very well.

 

[Marsh01]

When did you grow up? Wasn’t there a Sack Mac pack in the early 1980s. People have always been impatient with coaches. They just have more ways to express it now.

Born 1970. Thats my point. Be patient. Mac worked out fine

 

[djcon57]

Born 1970. Thats my point. Be patient. Mac worked out fine

Coach Mac

1981 Syracuse 4–6–1 1982 Syracuse 2–9 1983 Syracuse 6–5 1984 Syracuse 6–5 1985 Syracuse 7–5 L Cherry 1986 Syracuse 5–6 1987 Syracuse 11–0–1 T Sugar 4 4 1988 Syracuse 10–2 W Hall of Fame 12 13 1989 Syracuse 8–4 W Peach 1990 Syracuse 7–4–2 W Aloha 21 Syracuse: 66–46-6 He got better after his...

syracusefan.com

Here's a thread using Coach Mac as to why we should be patient with Coach Shafer from 2015.

 

[OrangeinDC]

As far as patience, you'd agree that with NIL and Transfer Portal that teams can get better quicker though, right?

Like on an extreme level, a team like Indiana football couldn't do what it did this year. And in the opposite direction, a team like Fla State wouldnt go from undefeated to a 1 win team the next year.

I think everyone can agree to the fact that the landscape has changed. I'm not suggesting we don't give Red time, I've been clear I'd like to give him 3 years to make the tourney. I think that should be sufficient at a school of our prior standard.

I just think this idea that he couldn't get "his" team in place by Year 2 is rather bizarre. If you want to place the limitations on NIL budget, then that's fine. I hope he's able to figure it out by Year 3 or 4

If it was as easy as this, shouldn't everybody be ship contenders?

 

[OrangeinDC]

All I'm going to say is, if it was Jim Boeheim on the sidelines with these results, it would be beyond chaos. We were never this bad and Jim dealt with a lot of criticism, which was all fair, and Red is getting less with a worse product. What we've watched is embarrassing.

Aren't we 3-0?

 

[two3zone]

Aren't we 3-0?

Why aren't we ranked #1? Media bias?