"The Dome roof"

[whobut03]

The difference is Hotel Syracuse is in closer proximity to walkable hot spots. Kennedy Square is a dump surrounded by nothing. I think a new stadium can be a huge catalyst for other spin-off investments --- BUT location, location, location is everything. There has to be a critical mass to start with. Inner Harbor would be my first and only pick if it's off-site unless they considered razing Pioneer Homes. Talk about perfect ingress/egress with former 81 delivering traffic right to the Dome's doorstep.

Total hear and respect your opinion. I would encourage you to look at pictures of Armory Square in the early 1980’s (or before). What Bob did there in the late 80’s early ‘90’s is nothing short of remarkable. I think it can (and should) be done again. He had the vision and executed it. Same can be done in Kennedy Square in my opinion.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Because that adds up to about...an average of $2 mil a year over the last 10 years or so I would bet...nope.

I left the first 20 years out if you noticed. No idea what they should have paid during those times but I am sure it wasn't $78K a year as this deal has averaged over the last 30.

SU is still WAAAAAAYY on the losing end of this agreement unless Carrier agrees to double what the naming rights are over the next 30 years. And air conditioning every building for free.

Can they air condition the Dairy building at the state fair too?

 

[IthacaMatt]

IMO, I get that the product on the field helps with attendance. However, I attend many different venues if you make it a experience, comfortable with good food, comfortable seating, nice bathrooms, cool video displays on large screens, lighting, music, etc. People will show up to be part of the scene and enjoy the venue as much as the game. A few examples are Minnesota Gophers new stadium. I get the venues in ATL, DFW and Minny are funded by NFL money but they are a draw by themselves. The Dome was like that in the 80's we just have not kept up with modern times. If you build it they will come.

KeyBank Center makes it such a nice experience in Buffalo. The second floor at the top of the escalators is like a food court of pretty good food (wings, burgers, mexican, etc.) crossed with sports bars, table seating or high tops and about 20 TVs but no waitress service to slow things down. It's awesome. And then escalators up to the higher levels, where you still have decent concessions and nice bathrooms.

 

[CuseOnly]

Can they air condition the Dairy building at the state fair too?

As long as SU gets to keep the butter sculpture each and every year in perpetuity.

 

[reedny]

No inside knowledge here, but I think Miner absolutely destroyed any chance of a mostly publicly funded stadium that is off campus. Unfortunately, the money earmarked for that project has been spent outside the city of Syracuse, and you can thank Miner for that. I wouldn't be surprised if some state money is used to upgrade the Dome, but unfortunately(?) the offsite project is pretty much dead.[/

I think you might have been right for a period of time. But (IMO) memories in politics are short. It's been 3-4 years. Minor's no longer an obstacle. The Dome's clearly a valuable asset with a substantial regional economic impact ... in dire need of a recap. I think a public deal could still work as a part of the annual Cuomo distribution. But that doesn't seem to be the trajectory.

 

[richmondcuse03]

KeyBank Center makes it such a nice experience in Buffalo. The second floor at the top of the escalators is like a food court of pretty good food (wings, burgers, mexican, etc.) crossed with sports bars, table seating or high tops and about 20 TVs but no waitress service to slow things down. It's awesome. And then escalators up to the higher levels, where you still have decent concessions and nice bathrooms.

Look at CitiField too. Amenities/food etc. can draw casual fans in. No reason to give people an excuse not to attend.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think you might have been right for a period of time. But (IMO) memories in politics are short. It's been 3-4 years. Minor's no longer an obstacle. The Dome's clearly a valuable asset with a substantial regional economic impact ... in dire need of a recap. I think a public deal could still work as a part of the annual Cuomo distribution. But that doesn't seem to be the trajectory.

I'm surprised Cuomo didn't pull something like the Iran hostage crisis and release the funds the minute Walsh was officially sworn in.

 

[reedny]

I'm surprised Cuomo didn't pull something like the Iran hostage crisis and release the funds the minute Walsh was officially sworn in.

All I can say is that the sauce is much sweeter now.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Total hear and respect your opinion. I would encourage you to look at pictures of Armory Square in the early 1980’s (or before). What Bob did there in the late 80’s early ‘90’s is nothing short of remarkable. I think it can (and should) be done again. He had the vision and executed it. Same can be done in Kennedy Square in my opinion.

It's possible, yeah. I just think in this situation you want to capitalize on existing synergies. Kennedy Square is cut off from everything else and has a similar feel as putting that baseball stadium up by the marshes and nudey bars. There was no spin-off benefit from that.

 

[FrancoPizza]

All I can say is that the sauce is much sweeter now.

???

 

[Consigliere]

Seems like the longer this goes on, the more likely the dome is to leave its current location. I don’t know what their future plans are for Skytop, but seems like a perfect opportunity to tie in both campuses. Not ideal, but what’re ya gonna do.

Naming rights aside, I still don’t understand why they go out of their way to advertise Carrier. Maybe you’re stuck with the name, but why put the logo on the court, etc.?

From what I hear all options are still on the table, but I agree that the shorter the time frame the more likely a "patch and fix" option becomes. The complexity of a major renovation while adhering to Wildhack's mandate that "we will lose no home football or basketball games" will drive the final solution. Still think with the plans to move all student housing off of South Campus that a new facility at Skytop should be a no brainer.

 

[nzm136]

From what I hear all options are still on the table, but I agree that the shorter the time frame the more likely a "patch and fix" option becomes. The complexity of a major renovation while adhering to Wildhack's mandate that "we will lose no home football or basketball games" will drive the final solution. Still think with the plans to move all student housing off of South Campus that a new facility at Skytop should be a no brainer.

Wait ... seriously? Where is all that student housing going?

 

[NJCuse97]

Wait ... seriously? Where is all that student housing going?

Framework suggests west campus, new dorm at Sheraton, replace Watson, some addition or new building near Haven...

 

[DomeStranger]

Because that adds up to about...an average of $2 mil a year over the last 10 years or so I would bet...nope.

I left the first 20 years out if you noticed. No idea what they should have paid during those times but I am sure it wasn't $78K a year as this deal has averaged over the last 30.

SU is still WAAAAAAYY on the losing end of this agreement unless Carrier agrees to double what the naming rights are over the next 30 years. And air conditioning every building for free.

What they should have paid? They shouldn't have paid anything, they didn't have to, why would they? If you buy 36,000 mile tires and end up getting 72,000 miles from them do you send the manufacturer a check telling them you underpaid? Do you understand what a lifetime contract means?

SU only had to come up with 12M to get the dome built and Carrier paid nearly 25% of that to get it done? Do you not realize how huge that was? Or do forget kind gestures friends make to you and tell them, "What have you done for me lately?". Since SU got such a good deal by getting the State of NY and Carrier to pay for most of the dome, should they be sending thank you checks to them?

 

[orangecuse]

What they should have paid? They shouldn't have paid anything, they didn't have to, why would they? If you buy 36,000 mile tires and end up getting 72,000 miles from them do you send the manufacturer a check telling them you underpaid? Do you understand what a lifetime contract means?

SU only had to come up with 12M to get the dome built and Carrier paid nearly 25% of that to get it done? Do you not realize how huge that was? Or do forget kind gestures friends make to you and tell them, "What have you done for me lately?". Since SU got such a good deal by getting the State of NY and Carrier to pay for most of the dome, should they be sending thank you checks to them?

Nice try with the tire analogy, it's worth a good chuckle, but certainly not on point.

You, apparently don't know what "lifetime" means from a legal standpoint. It applies to the 'ordinary' life expectancy of said product, now what that actually is is likely subject to some degree of interpretation. What is the Dome's "lifetime" expectancy? When various repairs, replacement, etc. have to be performed in order for it to be considered safe and/or habitable, has its life expectancy been exhausted? Possibly. Does the said contract specifically define "lifetime?" Ever own a product with a "lifetime" warranty only to find out that it doesn't quite mean one's entire life of owning it as assumed, but typically (legally) 5-7 years post stoppage of production of that particular product. Now the Dome was erected on real property, so that's not the same as a general product's case "lifetime" standpoint, but it still has a finite span.

 

[xc84]

Nice try with the tire analogy, it's worth a good chuckle, but certainly not on point.

You, apparently don't know what "lifetime" means from a legal standpoint. It applies to the 'ordinary' life expectancy of said product, now what that actually is is likely subject to some degree of interpretation. What is the Dome's "lifetime" expectancy? When various repairs, replacement, etc. have to be performed in order for it to be considered safe and/or habitable, has its life expectancy been exhausted? Possibly. Does the said contract specifically define "lifetime?" Ever own a product with a "lifetime" warranty only to find out that it doesn't quite mean one's entire life of owning it as assumed, but typically (legally) 5-7 years post stoppage of production of that particular product. Now the Dome was erected on real property, so that's not the same as a general product's case "lifetime" standpoint, but it still has a finite span.

Yes, of course it has a finite span but it is not there yet. The dome building was named for a donor, Carrier. It just like most of the buildings there. Crouse College, Manley Field House, etc. Their names will last as long as they stand. However, if SU wants to buy the name back, they would need to come up with the value of the name. As many of you note, it could be worth e.g. $1M per year so let's say the span is 25 years...that's about $15M. So that would mean SU offers Carrier $15M for something that will get them $15M (present value) of future cash streams. It's a wash. That's why the best option, if possible, is to prove that the building with a new roof and improvements is a different building than the original dome that Carrier's donation helped to build. Then the Carrier agreement is null and void and they can take all the naming right cashflow as pure profit.

 

[orangecuse]

Yes, of course it has a finite span but it is not there yet. The dome building was named for a donor, Carrier. It just like most of the buildings there. Crouse College, Manley Field House, etc. Their names will last as long as they stand. However, if SU wants to buy the name back, they would need to come up with the value of the name. As many of you note, it could be worth e.g. $1M per year so let's say the span is 25 years...that's about $15M. So that would mean SU offers Carrier $15M for something that will get them $15M (present value) of future cash streams. It's a wash. That's why the best option, if possible, is to prove that the building with a new roof and improvements is a different building than the original dome that Carrier's donation helped to build. Then the Carrier agreement is null and void and they can take all the naming right cashflow as pure profit.

I didn't say that the Dome eclipsed its "ordinary" life expectancy, only making an argument of what may constitute that. Of course if there aren't any significant design changes, structural alterations, etc., SU is bound to the contractual agreement that exists. The Dome is approaching 40 years of age, it was built in a different era. An era which, in today's standards, can be argued that its valuable span has been or near being exhausted. Comparably built structures have been destroyed because of same, rendered obsolete based on today's standard and climate.

The fact that the most prudent replacement of the Dome's roof is one which is structurally different and significantly altered from its original one/design, it's probable, from a legal standpoint, this constitutes a different building, which also probably favors Syracuse University's position (if there became a legal dispute) that the existing agreement with Carrier is now void and 'unenforceable.'

 

[OrangePA]

I didn't say that the Dome eclipsed its "ordinary" life expectancy, only making an argument of what may constitute that. Of course if there aren't any significant design changes, structural alterations, etc., SU is bound to the contractual agreement that exists. The Dome is approaching 40 years of age, it was built in a different era. An era which, in today's standards, can be argued that its valuable span has been or near being exhausted. Comparably built structures have been destroyed because of same, rendered obsolete based on today's standard and climate.

The fact that the most prudent replacement of the Dome's roof is one which is structurally different and significantly altered from its original one/design, it's probable, from a legal standpoint, this constitutes a different building, which also probably favors Syracuse University's position (if there became a legal dispute) that the existing agreement with Carrier is now void and 'unenforceable.'

I would be fine making that argument.

Why not?

In my opinion, Carrier has received more than sufficient reimbursement for its name.

If the structure is substantially changed - and a permanent roof in place of the signature Teflon roof to me is a substantial change - the naming rights should revert back to the University.

Go for it!

 

[upperdeck]

and are we assuming there is some company that sees a value in advertising a place in syracusem nationally?

we should shoot bigger.. the googly woogly dome. Or else we end up with something like the heids hot dog shack for w5K a yr

 

[Townie72]

I would be fine making that argument.

Why not?

In my opinion, Carrier has received more than sufficient reimbursement for its name.

If the structure is substantially changed - and a permanent roof in place of the signature Teflon roof to me is a substantial change - the naming rights should revert back to the University.

Go for it!

As a fellow alum, I would be disgusted if the University even attempted such a rip-off of Carrier. It's the Carrier Dome until Carrier agrees it isn't in my book. If SU wants to negotiate a deal with Carrier, then fine.

If the University even attempted it, I would throw my degree certificates in the trash bin and wash my hands of the place.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

and are we assuming there is some company that sees a value in advertising a place in syracusem nationally?

we should shoot bigger.. the googly woogly dome. Or else we end up with something like the heids hot dog shack for w5K a yr

Wegmans would make the most sense, but I am not sure it needs to spend the money.
Fucillo's, maybe.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

As a fellow alum, I would be disgusted if the University even attempted such a rip-off of Carrier. It's the Carrier Dome until Carrier agrees it isn't in my book. If SU wants to negotiate a deal with Carrier, then fine.

If the University even attempted it, I would throw my degree certificates in the trash bin and wash my hands of the place.

The deal whatever the parties, or a judge or jury, say it is.

 

[DomeStranger]

Nice try with the tire analogy, it's worth a good chuckle, but certainly not on point.

You, apparently don't know what "lifetime" means from a legal standpoint. It applies to the 'ordinary' life expectancy of said product, now what that actually is is likely subject to some degree of interpretation. What is the Dome's "lifetime" expectancy? When various repairs, replacement, etc. have to be performed in order for it to be considered safe and/or habitable, has its life expectancy been exhausted? Possibly. Does the said contract specifically define "lifetime?" Ever own a product with a "lifetime" warranty only to find out that it doesn't quite mean one's entire life of owning it as assumed, but typically (legally) 5-7 years post stoppage of production of that particular product. Now the Dome was erected on real property, so that's not the same as a general product's case "lifetime" standpoint, but it still has a finite span.

You're trying to hard to prove a point that is both legally and morally wrong. SU has plenty of lawyers, and they like having extra money. If they thought the contract wasn't valid any longer then they would pursue terminating it.

 

[Orijinal]

As a fellow alum, I would be disgusted if the University even attempted such a rip-off of Carrier. It's the Carrier Dome until Carrier agrees it isn't in my book. If SU wants to negotiate a deal with Carrier, then fine.

If the University even attempted it, I would throw my degree certificates in the trash bin and wash my hands of the place.

Wow.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

MY 2 cents. Stay on North Campus. There is very little that SU has to its gameday experience that is truly unique. The proximity to the main campus, the ability to walk outside and without a shuttlebus be in the middle of it all, is one of them. That my dorm room would be 500 feet from the Carrier Dome was actually a selling ppoint in my hunt for a college community i wanted