"The Dome roof"

[PhatOrange]

ask Retro44. They don't make a crane that will hoist a roof up from that far out. Need something in the middle. It's going to be messy.

they can easily park cranes around the Dome.

 

[reedny]

they can easily park cranes around the Dome.

they can. but according to Retro44, the span's too big. Have to have something in the middle for the weight and the span. The Dome roof's over 100 feet high. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[PhatOrange]

they can. but according to Retro44, the span's too big. Have to have something in the middle for the weight and the span. The Dome roof's over 100 feet high. Don't shoot the messenger.

Yeah I agree, and if cranes had to go inside I don't see that as a blocker either. The entrance is big enough for tractor trailers and cranes can also be assembled where they're needed (think on top of a manhattan sky scraper).

They wouldn't be hoisting full length steel trusses up like your house. Today's materials are also much lighter than previous. I'd imagine smaller pieces would be hoisted up, set in place and assembled off the ground as they go.

Wonder how many existing stadiums have had hard top roofs installed. That's where I'd look to see what's been done in the past.

 

[upperdeck]

You host on one side than using 2 cranes move it down to position over the top like russia did, then put the roof on. Ours would be much simplier than theirs because we dont need a complete section at a time just the supports.

 

[reedny]

Yeah I agree, and if cranes had to go inside I don't see that as a blocker either. The entrance is big enough for tractor trailers and cranes can also be assembled where they're needed (think on top of a manhattan sky scraper).

They wouldn't be hoisting full length steel trusses up like your house. Today's materials are also much lighter than previous. I'd imagine smaller pieces would be hoisted up, set in place and assembled off the ground as they go.

Wonder how many existing stadiums have had hard top roofs installed. That's where I'd look to see what's been done in the past.

I'll take your word for it, as I have absolutely no insight as to: 1) the roof SU has selected: 2) how such a roof might be installed; 3) whether a crane big enough to do the job will fit inside the Dome; or 4) how disruptive the process will be to on-going facility operations.

 

[PhatOrange]

I'll take your word for it, as I have absolutely no insight as to: 1) the roof SU has selected: 2) how such a roof might be installed; 3) whether a crane big enough to do the job will fit inside the Dome; or 4) how disruptive the process will be to on-going facility operations.

They can definitely put a crane(s) inside the dome and it would be very disruptive. I'd guess that part of the job would start the day after commencement and might go 24/7.

but there are other alternatives as upperdeck mentions.

 

[upperdeck]

check out Atlantas new stadium. 2/3 of the way in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZabEawvv08
A lot of stuff before cranes even deal with roof .

 

[sutomcat]

Yeah I agree, and if cranes had to go inside I don't see that as a blocker either. The entrance is big enough for tractor trailers and cranes can also be assembled where they're needed (think on top of a manhattan sky scraper).

They wouldn't be hoisting full length steel trusses up like your house. Today's materials are also much lighter than previous. I'd imagine smaller pieces would be hoisted up, set in place and assembled off the ground as they go.

Wonder how many existing stadiums have had hard top roofs installed. That's where I'd look to see what's been done in the past.

The plan is to leave the Dome roof intact and inflated while building the new roof over and around it. Based on the plan, cranes inside the Dome would have no access to the new roof.

Now it might be possible to deflate the Dome, remove the center panel, and then bring a crane in to work through that opening. But when you deflate and intentionally remove one or more panels, you run a the risk that the wind gets into the hole and causes damage. That is how these inflated domes usually suffer catastrophic failure. Just one panel gets damaged in a minor way, then the wind gets into the opening and rips a number of other panels.

This approach would be dangerous but might be manageable with a pre-built temporary cover over the missing panel that would still allow the crane to operate and the operator to see.

I think they are going to have to think outside of the box like this to get this project done and not lose any games for basketball and football.

 

[upperdeck]

what is the life of the turf? most are around 10 yrs outside.. got to think this is going to cause a new one with the weight of the stuff thats gonna be on it.

 

[UnknownOrange]

what is the life of the turf? most are around 10 yrs outside.. got to think this is going to cause a new one with the weight of the stuff thats gonna be on it.

They just installed turf 3(?) seasons ago. Pete was a turf management major. They've put so much weight on the turf before I am sure he knows the life of the new turf to the day. Not too worried there.

EDIT

Installed in 2015

 

[upperdeck]

Those Cranes weigh 10x-20x whatever they have put on the turf before and will grind it in ways that doesnt happen now too..

 

[CuseLegacy]

ask Retro44. They don't make a crane that will hoist a roof up from that far out. Need something in the middle. It's going to be messy.

It's not a roof they would be hoisting but trusses. It's the span of the trusses that would be the issue.

 

[xc84]

It's not a roof they would be hoisting but trusses. It's the span of the trusses that would be the issue.

I think they would be a challenge but not an "issue". It can be done There are cranes that are 300 feet high with plenty of span for our relatively small stadium.

 

[SUbear]

Can the new Mayor pull any funds

City is 25 million in debt, doubt any money comes from that area.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I think they would be a challenge but not an "issue". It can be done There are cranes that are 300 feet high with plenty of span for our relatively small stadium.

OK. Challenge would be a better word.

 

[FrancoPizza]

City is 25 million in debt, doubt any money comes from that area.

If Cuomo can provide $170M+ in state money for the fairgrounds then it’s within the realm of possibilities that he can throw a bone to SU, especially considering their economic importance to the region. Jiminy Crickets - just this past budget cycle he provided $63M for a brand new convention facility next to the goat barns. Imagine that cash infusion to jump start a new war memorial or a new dome. Miners arrogance was the county’s gain and the city’s pain.

 

[SUFan44]

The ceiling is the roof.

 

[sutomcat]

City is 25 million in debt, doubt any money comes from that area.

Yes, the city will do well to avoid declaring bankruptcy. The county on the other hand has money and Joannie was reportedly ready to commit substantial support towards a new stadium. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million...

 

[CuseOnly]

You host on one side than using 2 cranes move it down to position over the top like russia did, then put the roof on. Ours would be much simplier than theirs because we dont need a complete section at a time just the supports.

retro44 knows what he is talking about. They are not putting a hard roof on the dome unless there is a crane firmly planted in the middle of the structure.

Another issue is that the topography around the Dome is not level and will create issue for cranes as well.

You can tinker toy it together to a certain point then you will need multiple cranes hoisting together to pick and set the span of the roof.

 

[upperdeck]

which is why i wondered if the could use the approach that was used in russia that required no central cranes at all or any cranes around the building.. it may be vastly more expensive, but its also at a much smaller scale than that project, I have no idea

 

[CuseOnly]

which is why i wondered if the could use the approach that was used in russia that required no central cranes at all or any cranes around the building.. it may be vastly more expensive, but its also at a much smaller scale than that project, I have no idea

Did they do that project over the span of 3 months without anyone being killed?

 

[upperdeck]

watch the video its pretty cool.. slid the whole roof on on a much larger scale..

 

[MadNY3]

Listening to the interview with AD JW it struck me that there seems to be a subtle shift in focus when discussing the Dome remodel. Rather than talking about redoing the Dome we are now almost soley focused on replacing the roof. I hope im reading too much into this.

The roof has two years left max. It is a must do.

The rest of the plans show great opportunity to make a unique infrastructure even moreso for the future.

 

[SUbear]

The plan is to leave the Dome roof intact and inflated while building the new roof over and around it. Based on the plan, cranes inside the Dome would have no access to the new roof.

Now it might be possible to deflate the Dome, remove the center panel, and then bring a crane in to work through that opening. But when you deflate and intentionally remove one or more panels, you run a the risk that the wind gets into the hole and causes damage. That is how these inflated domes usually suffer catastrophic failure. Just one panel gets damaged in a minor way, then the wind gets into the opening and rips a number of other panels.

This approach would be dangerous but might be manageable with a pre-built temporary cover over the missing panel that would still allow the crane to operate and the operator to see.

I think they are going to have to think outside of the box like this to get this project done and not lose any games for basketball and football.

Support structures must be built to support any new fixed roof no matter material or design, These structures could be built in such a way that some could be used as cranes with the proper design. This type of crane is often used in large buildings with the body of the crane being left as elevator shafts on completion of their crane function. Cost would rise some but it could be done. The bigger question is can the underlying soil/bedrock support this kind of roof? the weigh of this roof will not be insignificant. Think of the tower of Pisa if you wonder why this would be important. Pilings driven to bedrock might be necessary and that might create problems of its own.
Anyone wondering why this is taking so long should consider both the engineering problems and the financial ones. The engineering problems are significant for both construction and the viability of a fixed roof over such a large span given potential snow loads in this climate, wind might also have to be factored in for any potential design. Fixed roofs with much smaller spans have failed under unfavorable climatic conditions.
I am not saying this can not be done, only that, it better have some solid engineering behind it.

 

[SUbear]

watch the video its pretty cool.. slid the whole roof on on a much larger scale..

I have not seen this,but would this method be feasable where the dome is surrouded by other structure?