"The Dome roof"

[Cheriehoop]

Support structures must be built to support any new fixed roof no matter material or design, These structures could be built in such a way that some could be used as cranes with the proper design. This type of crane is often used in large buildings with the body of the crane being left as elevator shafts on completion of their crane function. Cost would rise some but it could be done. The bigger question is can the underlying soil/bedrock support this kind of roof? the weigh of this roof will not be insignificant. Think of the tower of Pisa if you wonder why this would be important. Pilings driven to bedrock might be necessary and that might create problems of its own.
Anyone wondering why this is taking so long should consider both the engineering problems and the financial ones. The engineering problems are significant for both construction and the viability of a fixed roof over such a large span given potential snow loads in this climate, wind might also have to be factored in for any potential design. Fixed roofs with much smaller spans have failed under unfavorable climatic conditions.
I am not saying this can not be done, only that, it better have some solid engineering behind it.

I would imagine the options and huge engineering factors also make determining the fiscal impact a moving target too. Difficult to budget and plan when there are so many variables that can effect the costs.

 

[sutomcat]

Support structures must be built to support any new fixed roof no matter material or design, These structures could be built in such a way that some could be used as cranes with the proper design. This type of crane is often used in large buildings with the body of the crane being left as elevator shafts on completion of their crane function. Cost would rise some but it could be done. The bigger question is can the underlying soil/bedrock support this kind of roof? the weigh of this roof will not be insignificant. Think of the tower of Pisa if you wonder why this would be important. Pilings driven to bedrock might be necessary and that might create problems of its own.
Anyone wondering why this is taking so long should consider both the engineering problems and the financial ones. The engineering problems are significant for both construction and the viability of a fixed roof over such a large span given potential snow loads in this climate, wind might also have to be factored in for any potential design. Fixed roofs with much smaller spans have failed under unfavorable climatic conditions.
I am not saying this can not be done, only that, it better have some solid engineering behind it.

Cranes have to be a lot taller than the height of the walls. But no matter, the problem as retro44 as already outlined is that the way to put up a roof like this is from the inside, where leverage is maximized, balance is optimal, etc.

I don’t think it is an exaggeration that this project will be one of the greatest engineering challenges of the century. Canada had a similar issue, a really tight deadline and Olympic money to work with and still opted not to do what Syracuse is going to try.

 

[xc84]

 

[TexanMark]

I think they would be a challenge but not an "issue". It can be done There are cranes that are 300 feet high with plenty of span for our relatively small stadium.

It is something like 500' X 800' spans

It isn't the height it is the span.

They need to start this summer to work the exoskeleton foundations and HVAC, Electrical, and other infrastructure.

To me the easiest thing is to build at South Campus or another location (downtown/inner harbor). The downside is you lose the unique esthetics of being at the Quad.

Personally if they go the remodel route... I'd look at taking down the old law school building and build a grand entrance. Plan that for phase 2

 

[xc84]

It is something like 500' X 800' spans

It isn't the height it is the span.

They need to start this summer to work the exoskeleton foundations and HVAC, Electrical, and other infrastructure.

To me the easiest thing is to build at South Campus or another location (downtown/inner harbor). The downside is you lose the unique esthetics of being at the Quad.

Personally if they go the remodel route... I'd look at taking down the old law school building and build a grand entrance. Plan that for phase 2

Someone mentioned height too so I responded to that as well.

Found this on the dimensions: The Carrier Dome covers 7.7 acres and has 527,320 square feet of floor space. It is 570 feet long and 497 feet wide, and the top of the Dome is 165 feet above the playing surface.

PS: I have always liked a "South Campus" stadium idea but the cost for an entirely new roofed stadium with all the necessary infrastructure appears to be out of reach financially.

 

[UnknownOrange]

It is something like 500' X 800' spans

It isn't the height it is the span.

They need to start this summer to work the exoskeleton foundations and HVAC, Electrical, and other infrastructure.

To me the easiest thing is to build at South Campus or another location (downtown/inner harbor). The downside is you lose the unique esthetics of being at the Quad.

Personally if they go the remodel route... I'd look at taking down the old law school building and build a grand entrance. Plan that for phase 2

This. It's cool that the building is on campus and everything but as a non-alum, it really doesn't do much for me. South Campus is still technically campus but it's not the focal point like the dome is. However I am ALL in on a south campus Dome and turn over the Dome's space to Academics.

 

[PhatOrange]

The plan is to leave the Dome roof intact and inflated while building the new roof over and around it. Based on the plan, cranes inside the Dome would have no access to the new roof.

Now it might be possible to deflate the Dome, remove the center panel, and then bring a crane in to work through that opening. But when you deflate and intentionally remove one or more panels, you run a the risk that the wind gets into the hole and causes damage. That is how these inflated domes usually suffer catastrophic failure. Just one panel gets damaged in a minor way, then the wind gets into the opening and rips a number of other panels.

If the idea is to leave the Dome roof intact and inflated then I'm very interested and curious to see how they'll do it. That''ll be a major challenge. The only scenario I've ever envisioned is with the teflon off.

 

[PhatOrange]

retro44 knows what he is talking about. They are not putting a hard roof on the dome unless there is a crane firmly planted in the middle of the structure.

Another issue is that the topography around the Dome is not level and will create issue for cranes as well.

You can tinker toy it together to a certain point then you will need multiple cranes hoisting together to pick and set the span of the roof.

topography is a non-issue and with today's material and structural advances they might be able to tinker toy the whole roof together.

 

[xc84]

If the idea is to leave the Dome roof intact and inflated then I'm very interested and curious to see how they'll do it. That''ll be a major challenge. The only scenario I've ever envisioned is with the teflon off.

It's not the roof material, it's the support stucture/trusses that are the challenge. The most likely material (Sala has mentioned this) is ETFE like they used for the Vikings stadium.

 

[PhatOrange]

Support structures must be built to support any new fixed roof no matter material or design, These structures could be built in such a way that some could be used as cranes with the proper design. This type of crane is often used in large buildings with the body of the crane being left as elevator shafts on completion of their crane function. Cost would rise some but it could be done. The bigger question is can the underlying soil/bedrock support this kind of roof? the weigh of this roof will not be insignificant. Think of the tower of Pisa if you wonder why this would be important. Pilings driven to bedrock might be necessary and that might create problems of its own.
Anyone wondering why this is taking so long should consider both the engineering problems and the financial ones. The engineering problems are significant for both construction and the viability of a fixed roof over such a large span given potential snow loads in this climate, wind might also have to be factored in for any potential design. Fixed roofs with much smaller spans have failed under unfavorable climatic conditions.
I am not saying this can not be done, only that, it better have some solid engineering behind it.

I would you guess the current Dome supports sit on bedrock, no? There are some great pictures out of there of Dome's construction.

 

[PhatOrange]

It's not the roof material, it's the support stucture/trusses that are the challenge. The most likely material (Sala has mentioned this) is ETFE like they used for the Vikings stadium.

understood. I'm only referring to the structural support material (ie alloy). I picture the Minnesota Dome. You can google construction images.

 

[xc84]

understood. I'm only referring to the structural support material (ie alloy). I picture the Minnesota Dome. You can google construction images.

View attachment 122303

View attachment 122304

Sorry. I misread your note.

 

[AZOrange]

The plan is to leave the Dome roof intact and inflated while building the new roof over and around it. Based on the plan, cranes inside the Dome would have no access to the new roof.

Now it might be possible to deflate the Dome, remove the center panel, and then bring a crane in to work through that opening. But when you deflate and intentionally remove one or more panels, you run a the risk that the wind gets into the hole and causes damage. That is how these inflated domes usually suffer catastrophic failure. Just one panel gets damaged in a minor way, then the wind gets into the opening and rips a number of other panels.

This approach would be dangerous but might be manageable with a pre-built temporary cover over the missing panel that would still allow the crane to operate and the operator to see.

I think they are going to have to think outside of the box like this to get this project done and not lose any games for basketball and football.

I can’t even comprehend this as a possibility. Is the plan to add new seats above the existing roofline? That’s how I’ve seen it done. Otherwise you adding another 100 feet of dead space to a barn...

 

[xc84]

I can’t even comprehend this as a possibility. Is the plan to add new seats above the existing roofline? That’s how I’ve seen it done. Otherwise you adding another 100 feet of dead space to a barn...

The material will be translucent so it will add a lot of daylight. No plan that I have ever heard of of add seats above the existing roof-line but the roof itself will definitely be higher.

 

[PhatOrange]

I can’t even comprehend this as a possibility. Is the plan to add new seats above the existing roofline? That’s how I’ve seen it done. Otherwise you adding another 100 feet of dead space to a barn...

What I was originally told (probably going on 2 years ago now) the plan is to add boxes all the way around the top of the Dome.

The other thing I was told is they were going to do a large connecting complex with the Dome and the Archbold gym building.

 

[sutomcat]

I can’t even comprehend this as a possibility. Is the plan to add new seats above the existing roofline? That’s how I’ve seen it done. Otherwise you adding another 100 feet of dead space to a barn...

I haven't read anything about adding seats; just losing some by converting benches to individual seats.

I have grave concerns about the individual seat plan by the way. The rows are too close together on the third level to support individual seats. I am a season ticket holder for basketball and have individual seats for all my seats. We are constantly kicked in our backs by people walking in the aisle behind us and by the people sitting in the seats behind us.

Permanent seats will take up even more room and anyone over 5'9 is going to be miserable trying to find a place to put their legs. If they have to install individual seats, I think they have to replace the concrete flooring/steps/rows and go with bigger ones, like they did for the lower level, which was designed to accommodate backs on the seats.

Back to your question. I think there would be an opportunity to add seats when the existing walls are knocked out and replaced by the new exterior walls. Or they could add private boxes up there. Or do nothing.

At the least, I would love to see a small concourse added above the third level seats, with bathrooms and concessions. It would relieve some of the congestion on the second concourse, it would be more convenient for those of us who sit way up on the third level and I think it would make those seats a lot more sellable. They will have the space. Do it.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I haven't read anything about adding seats; just losing some by converting benches to individual seats.

I have grave concerns about the individual seat plan by the way. The rows are too close together on the third level to support individual seats. I am a season ticket holder for basketball and have individual seats for all my seats. We are constantly kicked in our backs by people walking in the aisle behind us and by the people sitting in the seats behind us.

Permanent seats will take up even more room and anyone over 5'9 is going to be miserable trying to find a place to put their legs. If they have to install individual seats, I think they have to replace the concrete flooring/steps/rows and go with bigger ones, like they did for the lower level, which was designed to accommodate backs on the seats.

Back to your question. I think there would be an opportunity to add seats when the existing walls are knocked out and replaced by the new exterior walls. Or they could add private boxes up there. Or do nothing.

At the least, I would love to see a small concourse added above the third level seats, with bathrooms and concessions. It would relieve some of the congestion on the second concourse, it would be more convenient for those of us who sit way up on the third level and I think it would make those seats a lot more sellable. They will have the space. Do it.

How about we just renumber all the seats.

You can't get 34 people across on a bench anymore. Maybe 30 years ago people were skinnier, but not anymore.

 

[Cusefan0307]

How about we just renumber all the seats.

You can't get 34 people across on a bench anymore. Maybe 30 years ago people were skinnier, but not anymore.

Speak for yourself

 

[bnoro]

Build it like this.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Build it like this.

Awful nice of the Russians to have a vacant lot the size of a football field right next to the reactor to use for construction.

I suppose we could knock down Archbold and Flanagan gyms, Carnegie Library, Bowne Hall, and half of Mount Olympus to make room.

 

[UnknownOrange]

What would a new stadium cost? 350-500 million? Not to drive this convo that way but with concerns about timeline, seating, construction, etc... why not just break ground as soon as possible and build a new arena?

Answer: $$$. I know. But if it's possible, do it.

 

[Toga]

If NYS isn't going to provide any direct funding - could the project be financed at the lowest possible interest rates through the NYS Dormitory Authority?

 

[AZOrange]

I haven't read anything about adding seats; just losing some by converting benches to individual seats.

I have grave concerns about the individual seat plan by the way. The rows are too close together on the third level to support individual seats. I am a season ticket holder for basketball and have individual seats for all my seats. We are constantly kicked in our backs by people walking in the aisle behind us and by the people sitting in the seats behind us.

Permanent seats will take up even more room and anyone over 5'9 is going to be miserable trying to find a place to put their legs. If they have to install individual seats, I think they have to replace the concrete flooring/steps/rows and go with bigger ones, like they did for the lower level, which was designed to accommodate backs on the seats.

Back to your question. I think there would be an opportunity to add seats when the existing walls are knocked out and replaced by the new exterior walls. Or they could add private boxes up there. Or do nothing.

At the least, I would love to see a small concourse added above the third level seats, with bathrooms and concessions. It would relieve some of the congestion on the second concourse, it would be more convenient for those of us who sit way up on the third level and I think it would make those seats a lot more sellable. They will have the space. Do it.

The more we discuss this the more I think a major reno is impossible

 

[UnknownOrange]

The more we discuss this the more I think a major reno is impossible

And look at all this land!

 

[RandomGuy]

Build it like this.

Excellent. Build each section on the ground. Hoist up on one side. Put it on rails. Repeat. Keep pushing the roof (on rails)over the existing dome, until complete. That sounds doable.