The Last Dance

[OrangeDW]

I was really surprised to see that
A) he was first team in 84-86, and
B) he stopped making it afterwards

I didn't realize he was making first teams as early as 84.

To be somewhat fair, they didn't add the third team until 89, so maybe he makes a third team if there is one in 87.

Third team guards in 89 were Mark Price and Dale Ellis. Isiah played 80 games, had his usual good year, the team won 63 games and was on their way to their first title, and Dale Ellis and Mark Price made third team over him. hmmmmmm

Yup. Crazy. And I loved Mark Price - he was one of my favorite players as a kid and he was awesome. But Isiah was great and his team was winning it all!

 

[OrangeDW]

Magic was turning 33, and he wasn't in the league for a reason. Him playing was bigger than sports. Incredible that even with the time not competing in the NBA he was able to jump in and play like hie did.

Right. And even 36 year old, kinda heavy, retired for 4 years Magic came back and was a productive player. People liked to bag on that run and Mike’s Wizards run, but just the fact they could come back after that many years and produce was crazy IMO.

 

[Knicks411]

Right. And even 36 year old, kinda heavy, retired for 4 years Magic came back and was a productive player. People liked to bag on that run and Mike’s Wizards run, but just the fact they could come back after that many years and produce was crazy IMO.

I never really looked at Magic's numbers for that short comeback, they were pretty damn good!
32 games, 30 minutes a game, 14/7/6, 61% true shooting. I imagine at that point his defense was pretty awful, but still.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yup. Crazy. And I loved Mark Price - he was one of my favorite players as a kid and he was awesome. But Isiah was great and his team was winning it all!

Would have been interesting to see where Cleveland ended up had they never traded Ron Harper.

 

[jordville]

Webber was. Grant Hill i think. Penny?

On the video, I am trying to remember the story now; is there video of that? Isn't there also supposed to be video of a scrimmage the dream team had where Michael was on one team and Magic the other? I may be conflating stories here.

 

[jordville]

 

[djcon57]

Great points.

A great example of them sounding like Bill versus challenging Bill is why I think Zach Lowe was so good with him. He'd go right back at him if he disagreed and he'd call Bill out on some of his ridiculous takes.

You're right that Sal and Russillo push back and it makes for good discussions.

The Rodman discussion, to your point, isn't as cut and dry as Simmons made it seem on twitter. Russillo made a good point about it when he was talking about. Yes, Rodman is an interesting subject, but it's the same - over and over. We get it.

There are 10 parts of this doc, I don't want to see too much of Rodman. Give me MJ, Pip, Phil and the Jerrys and the people they beat.

I think they used the wrong word with Rodman.

It’s not “interesting”, it’s charisma.
Rodman’s shtick is very forced. It’s not natural.

It is interesting though.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Great points.

A great example of them sounding like Bill versus challenging Bill is why I think Zach Lowe was so good with him. He'd go right back at him if he disagreed and he'd call Bill out on some of his ridiculous takes.

You're right that Sal and Russillo push back and it makes for good discussions.

The Rodman discussion, to your point, isn't as cut and dry as Simmons made it seem on twitter. Russillo made a good point about it when he was talking about. Yes, Rodman is an interesting subject, but it's the same - over and over. We get it.

There are 10 parts of this doc, I don't want to see too much of Rodman. Give me MJ, Pip, Phil and the Jerrys and the people they beat.

I agree 100% too much Rodman in part 3

 

[Briancuse]

The guy interviewing him looks like ditka.

 

[sdorange]

During Jordan's 63 point game v Celtics, can someone explain how MJ isn't shooting 3 free throws instead of 2 after McHales foul? He's clearly beyond the 3pt line.

Highlight at 1:50:20

 

[MSOrange]

During Jordan's 63 point game v Celtics, can someone explain how MJ isn't shooting 3 free throws instead of 2 after McHales foul? He's clearly beyond the 3pt line.

Highlight at 1:50:20

I'm guessing that was the rule at the time. At least in the NCAA, they started the 3 point line in 1986 but didn't start awarding 3 free throws until 1990. I couldn't find anything to verify the NBA history on that.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm guessing that was the rule at the time. At least in the NCAA, they started the 3 point line in 1986 but didn't start awarding 3 free throws until 1990. I couldn't find anything to verify the NBA history on that.

I think it was sometime in the mid 90s you got 3 shots on a 3 point foul. Def not in 86.

It seems obvious now, but I guess when the 3 pointer first came around there were so few even attempted.

 

[orangenauburn]

Bout to get a look at some Grant / MJ beef in episode 5 from what the preview looks like

 

[Eric15]

I finally watched Episode 4 last night.

Question: when the reporter asked MJ about whether the Game 7 with the Pistons was the game where Pippen had a migraine, Jordan gave like a cynical/sarcastic facial expression. What was that about? Like I thought he was going to say that he thought Pippen was being a baby about it or something, but Pippen clearly wasn't.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think that is what motivated him - he wanted to prove he was tough even though he was blessed with a wealthy family.

That's called being an ahole.

 

[Eric15]

Hot take: Vegas would have the 1996 Dream Team favored over the 1992 Dream Team if they played a hypothetical 7-game series.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Hot take: Vegas would have the 1996 Dream Team favored over the 1992 Dream Team if they played a hypothetical 7-game series.

View attachment 180594

I wouldn't bet against Jordan under any circumstance.

 

[Alsacs]

I wouldn't bet against Jordan under any circumstance.

I would favor the 1992 team.
They wouldn’t have to give minutes to Bird/Magic/Laetnner thus

Jordan/Drexler
Stockton
Pippen/Mullin
Malone/Barkley
Robinson/Ewing

Is the perfect 9 man rotation.

1996 team had 12 NBA players it would be tougher to get a rotation with that.
Plus the 1992 team has an in his prime Michael Jordan. That is enough.

 

[OrangeDW]

I finally watched Episode 4 last night.

Question: when the reporter asked MJ about whether the Game 7 with the Pistons was the game where Pippen had a migraine, Jordan gave like a cynical/sarcastic facial expression. What was that about? Like I thought he was going to say that he thought Pippen was being a baby about it or something, but Pippen clearly wasn't.

Im torn between:
1) Michael can’t mentally process or fathom how a migraine could stop someone because he thinks it wouldn’t stop himself. We saw his mentality towards his own foot injury in his second season. We saw him in the “flu game”. He probably thinks he could’ve fought his way through it and produced if it happened to him.

or

2) It was kind’ve a sarcastic smile to express just how unfortunate and untimely it was. Like, “game 7 and we’ve got a shot to finally eliminate these guys after years of losing to them and of course one of our best guys can’t go...unbelievable, where’s the luck? What next? What a terrible break for us and I still can’t believe it.” That kind of thing.

 

[Knicks411]

92 vs 08 or 12 would be a great series. 92 sounds unbelievable, and obviously they were incredible, but Larry and Magic were not Larry and Magic. I think the 92 team would be at a slight athletic deficit, Stockton would struggle with some of the quicker PG, ditto Mullin and the wings. Probably a lot of lineups with Pippen as the de factor lead ball handler.

2008 you have a 8-9 man rotation of
Paul/Kidd/Williams at PG
Wings you have Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Melo
Bigs you have Dwight (when Dwight was great) and Bosh

Lebron isn't quite at his apex, but that's a hell of a team

2012
Paul/Russ at PG, with a lesser Deron Williams
Lebron/Harden/Kobe/Melo/Durant on the wings
Love and Tyson Chandler as your bigs, with fresh out of college Anthony Davis

If you could put 2008 Dwight on the 2012 team, or if 2012 Anthony Davis was more like 2014 Anthony Davis, that team might be unbeatable. Paul/Lebron/Harden/Durant/Dwight? My god. Harden is a guy who doesn't exactly work as well when he's not dominating the ball, but I bet he would still be ok spotting up.

What would the 2020 dream team have looked like? I imagine Lebron doesn't play? For the sake of argument, lets pretend Durant is healthy. Something like

Steph/Dame at PG
Kawhi/Durant/PG/Harden as your wings
Davis/? as the bigs

Feels like they are short one killer big man, a lot of the good big men aren't eligible (Jokic, Embiid, Rudy) If Lebron was playing you could play him as a big.

 

[Bayside44]

Hot take: Vegas would have the 1996 Dream Team favored over the 1992 Dream Team if they played a hypothetical 7-game series.

View attachment 180594

Barkley trashed the 1996 team. He played on both.

2012 might be a more interesting comp. But I would take the 1992 team against any team in any sport.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Barkley trashed the 1996 team. He played on both.

2012 might be a more interesting comp. But I would take the 1992 team against any team in any sport.

They averaged like 20 steals a game

 

[Bayside44]

They averaged like 20 steals a game

1996 team?

 

[Briancuse]

I wouldn't bet against Jordan under any circumstance.

He wouldn't either.

 

[NineOneSeven]

1996 team?

92? Maybe 96 too