The latest all encompassing recruiting thread

[money3189]

If Tom Brady was our quarterback would we win more games?

LOL brother LOL

 

[General Joe]

Do me a favor. Next time you watch a game. Look for these guys on the sideline talking to each other with these weird head phones on. They have these things called schemes and plays. They effect the game. They can determine wins or losses. They can lose you games even when you have studs. You seem to think coaching isnt part of the equation.

Once again I have never said that lol. I get you are about winning arguments on here I AM NOT.

You win this argument I agree if we had better recruiting coaches we would have better recruits point blank end stop no excuses about Syracuse being tough to recruit to or cold etc. I agree with you on that.

 

[721Comstock]

He does everything he can to get out of it. He's the spin doctor

Little Miss Can’t Be Wrong?

 

[money3189]

Once again I have never said that lol. I get you are about winning arguments on here I AM NOT.

You win this argument I agree if we had better recruiting coaches we would have better recruits point blank end stop no excuses about Syracuse being tough to recruit to or cold etc. I agree with you on that.

You refuse to think winning factors in. Its so insane. Kids want to win. You know how I know? Because Im actually engage with them and they tell me that. Matter of fact Jimmy Scott just messaged me and told me why he chose Tennessee. You probably have no clue who that is. lol

 

[General Joe]

You refuse to think winning factors in. Its so insane. Kids want to win. You know how I know? Because Im actually engage with them and they tell me that. Matter of fact Jimmy Scott just messaged me and told me why he chose Tennessee. You probably have no clue who that is. lol

Once again I never said that lol. Your kinda funny man. I thought we were having a breakthrough.

And no I dont know Jimmy Scott. Can he help Syracuse?

 

[JeremyCuse]

You want recruiting to get better, we need to WIN. If we consistently WIN we'll get better recruits. Until both those things happen, our recruiting will stay around where it is. That's been the point all along.

But you and General Joe seem to think we can just "put in more effort" and all these kids are gonna start coming to SU. Which is totally ridiculous. Especially when there have been multiple kids we recruited for two years, who got an SEC offer, and two weeks later were committed there.

I get the frustrating with the lack of high end recruits but as you noted just putting in "more effort" isn't gonna do jack when PSU csn turn around and take them to a 110K sold out game against OSU the weke after out pitch. The only way SU is going to get upoer echelon recruits without winning is by hiring a guy like Oregeron who is a dynamic recruiter and even then as was the case at Ole Miss that only lasts for a cycle or two.

The current argument feels like a St. Bonaventure fan upset that there not winning more recruiting battles against SU after getting that Omuryi kid late in the cycle a few seasons ago. People just don't get where SU is currently in thr national landscape versus other teams or the bball program.

 

[money3189]

Once again I never said that lol. Your kinda funny man. I thought we were having a breakthrough.

And no I dont know Jimmy Scott. Can he help Syracuse?

Can't have break through if you can't listen to people that actually been through the trenches. Jimmy is a high ranked 2022 NYS kid that Ive helped get exposure. Committed today to Tennessee. This kid visited Cuse, likes them alot. The staff has been all over him and showing him love but I guess they don't try hard enough.

 

[General Joe]

Can't have break through if you can't listen to people that actually been through the trenches. Jimmy is a high ranked 2022 NYS kid that Ive helped get exposure. Committed today to Tennessee. This kid visited Cuse, likes them alot. The staff has been all over him and showing him love but I guess they don't try hard enough.

The funny part is you keep saying "listen to people that actually been through the trenches" I'm in the trenches NOW lol. I shared one example and the background of recruiting to Syracuse yesterday. If I ever see you at a game or school function we will talk about the football recruiting battles in the trenches lol.

It's all good Money? We all want the same thing. We just look at different roads to get to the same place. Lets hope we get there.

 

[money3189]

The funny part is you keep saying "listen to people that actually been through the trenches" I'm in the trenches NOW lol. I shared one example and the background of recruiting to Syracuse yesterday. If I ever see you at a game or school function we will talk about the football recruiting battles in the trenches lol.

It's all good Money? We all want the same thing. We just look at different roads to get to the same place. Lets hope we get there.

Many people have tried to alert you but you were too stubborn to read the tea leaves. Its all good.

 

[bnoro]

Once again I never said that lol. Your kinda funny man. I thought we were having a breakthrough.

And no I dont know Jimmy Scott. Can he help Syracuse?

Wait, so you're saying we need to "own our area" and don't know who Jimmy Scott is? And then you come here and call us ignorant and say we don't know what we're talking about?

 

[General Joe]

Wait, so you're saying we need to "own our area" and don't know who Jimmy Scott is? And then you come here and call us ignorant and say we don't know what we're talking about?

I actually never called you or your group ignorant, I never said you or your group don't know what your talking about. I noticed you make up talking points and put words in people's mouths regularly.

I have said we want the same thing, but just look at different paths to that place.

With regard to Jimmy Scott no I dont personally know him. No I have never had a conversation with him. I might also add I dont know every recruit who is NOT going to Syracuse. Hope that answers your question.

 

[Bulldog04]

The last 3 pages of this thread have mystified me... just when this can’t get any better... if you don’t see the disadvantages Syracuse has on so many levels like people like Bnoro are saying compared to some of these other schools like North Carolina (who has the most famous athlete alumni ever and is a breeding ground for recruits) then you gotta do more research and understand recruiting a lot more. Winning year in and year out is the thing that wins until you have unlimited money like Oregon or UNC. Even the crap SEC schools blow SU out of the water on so many levels that make a kid choose a different school.

Perfect example is Jimmy Scott. NY kid who chooses Tennessee. When I was being recruited I took an official visit to Tennessee and the whole town is football. Everything is football. Restaurants, bars, everythinggggg. Syracuse isn’t that and doesn’t try to be that. It’s a great football town for the fans, but it’s a different level in other places and there’s so many reasons to not choose SU until they win 10 a year. Simple. As. That

 

[kcsu]

Dino desperately needed to upgrade his staff. Our DC and OC were sub par at best. We had one closer in Swag D and Dino. One maybe two of the other guys were ok. First blush it looks like our new coaches are an upgrade in recruiting. Hopefully in coaching as well. Bottom line. Dinos staff was weak and the loss of our OC/Qb coach really hurt.

 

[Sudano]

The last 3 pages of this thread have mystified me... just when this can’t get any better... if you don’t see the disadvantages Syracuse has on so many levels like people like Bnoro are saying compared to some of these other schools like North Carolina (who has the most famous athlete alumni ever and is a breeding ground for recruits) then you gotta do more research and understand recruiting a lot more. Winning year in and year out is the thing that wins until you have unlimited money like Oregon or UNC. Even the crap SEC schools blow SU out of the water on so many levels that make a kid choose a different school.

Perfect example is Jimmy Scott. NY kid who chooses Tennessee. When I was being recruited I took an official visit to Tennessee and the whole town is football. Everything is football. Restaurants, bars, everythinggggg. Syracuse isn’t that and doesn’t try to be that. It’s a great football town for the fans, but it’s a different level in other places and there’s so many reasons to not choose SU until they win 10 a year. Simple. As. That

Explain then how do we improve? Will we ever improve? How do win more games? We can't because we'll never match all other teams. Do we accept our losing? Teams don't get better or worse. I realize 25 yrs ago but how were we a top 10 team. Almost all the things you mention now were still true then.

 

[RF2044]

Explain then how do we improve? Will we ever improve? How do win more games? We can't because we'll never match all other teams. Do we accept our losing? Teams don't get better or worse. I realize 25 yrs ago but how were we a top 10 team. Almost all the things you mention now were still true then.

Horse sh--.

We CAN win games - because this head coach has already proven that we can. The path forward is to have an innovative system, to recruit to that system, to have success, and THEN land higher rated prospects who are also strong system fits.

Check, check, mixed bag, already beginning to happen.

 

[Sudano]

Horse sh--.

We CAN win games - because this head coach has already proven that we can. The path forward is to have an innovative system, to recruit to that system, to have success, and THEN land higher rated prospects who are also strong system fits.

Check, check, mixed bag, already beginning to happen.

2 Bowls in a row and then I'll agree with you. Huge opportunity missed last year. Love Dino but most of that has to fall on the coaching staff.

 

[RF2044]

2 Bowls in a row and then I'll agree with you. Huge opportunity missed last year. Love Dino but some if not most has to fall on the coaching staff.

I agree that it needs to be sustained.

And last year's season got off on the wrong foot with the OL issues manifesting right from the beginning of summer camp. Needed to capitalize on some early games that we botched. All it would have taken is one.

Huge missed opportunity.

 

[money3189]

The last 3 pages of this thread have mystified me... just when this can’t get any better... if you don’t see the disadvantages Syracuse has on so many levels like people like Bnoro are saying compared to some of these other schools like North Carolina (who has the most famous athlete alumni ever and is a breeding ground for recruits) then you gotta do more research and understand recruiting a lot more. Winning year in and year out is the thing that wins until you have unlimited money like Oregon or UNC. Even the crap SEC schools blow SU out of the water on so many levels that make a kid choose a different school.

Perfect example is Jimmy Scott. NY kid who chooses Tennessee. When I was being recruited I took an official visit to Tennessee and the whole town is football. Everything is football. Restaurants, bars, everythinggggg. Syracuse isn’t that and doesn’t try to be that. It’s a great football town for the fans, but it’s a different level in other places and there’s so many reasons to not choose SU until they win 10 a year. Simple. As. That

Good insight.

 

[money3189]

Horse sh--.

We CAN win games - because this head coach has already proven that we can. The path forward is to have an innovative system, to recruit to that system, to have success, and THEN land higher rated prospects who are also strong system fits.

Check, check, mixed bag, already beginning to happen.

Bingo

 

[money3189]

2 Bowls in a row and then I'll agree with you. Huge opportunity missed last year. Love Dino but most of that has to fall on the coaching staff.

last season was a missed opportunity and it set us back in recruiting. Its definitely on the staff. I think the fact that Dino made the necessary changes gives people faith. To be consistently competitive in the ACC, I think he realized he couldn't get away with what he had. You can only ride friendships for so long. This is a business. The staff weren't expecting much from the team the first two seasons. I think they were more focused on developing the culture and implementing schemes. I think Dino over looked some deficiencies because of the 10 win season. Once we got exposed last year he made the changes. I think most have renewed faith because of that.

 

[blizz]

I'm an alumnus of Syracuse University and attended every single football game the 4 years I was there, 2008 with GRob, and the first 3 years of Marrone. I would love to see us become the powerhouse we were in the 1990s-90s again.

I also had a very inside look at recruiting for those 4 years and understand what we were working with and the roadblocks the staff faced to get kids to come here. Dino is an upgrade recruiting-wise on every coach we've had since P.

Unless we perennially win 10 games, with our natural disadvantages, it is impossible to recruit like the 90s. I'm all for your blind optimism but you have to understand the natural disadvantages SU has and for some reason you won't listen to anyone telling you otherwise.

I know you hate repeating them. I know its a pain. But I think it would help people get it if you gave more detail about the disadvantages that you see.

 

[blizz]

Explain then how do we improve? Will we ever improve? How do win more games? We can't because we'll never match all other teams. Do we accept our losing? Teams don't get better or worse. I realize 25 yrs ago but how were we a top 10 team. Almost all the things you mention now were still true then.

Improvement will come like this: incrementally and very slowly. The key in my mind is developing the talent that you get and incrementally layering on kids that develop into higher caliber players than their recruiting ranking suggests. In my mind we've been doing this but its a slow process.
We've hit on a few high 3-star-low 4-star type guys every year (Sampson, Trill, Devito, Hendrix, Jones, Kpogba, Nunn...we've had some bad luck along the way...). We've also landed some guys who either proved to be or developed into better players than their recruiting suggested (Coleman, Cisco, Benson, Bergeron, I'd even throw Vettorello in here).
We've got to continue to do that and then develop the talent that we do land so as to maximize their potential (I think of Iffy as a great example here, mid-level 3-star kid with some late high level interest that we managed to land...by all accounts the kid has worked his butt off and has developed into a high level player).
The other piece is coaching and scheme. Bottom line is the coaches have to be able to win some games every year that they shouldn't from a talent perspective while rarely losing ones they should win. Thats a hard thing to do.

I think we're continuing to do the first part. The few bits of information that have come out suggest guys like Linton, Courtney Jackson Javontae Williams, and Sean Tucker are potential early contributors. Looking at the last few recruiting classes I really like what I see. I think there are high level athletes that just need a little bit of guidance to blossom into great players and there are players with huge potential that just need their development to break the right way and we could have very pleasant surprises. We just have to continue to layer guys on and slowly our talent will improve.

 

[money3189]

Improvement will come like this: incrementally and very slowly. The key in my mind is developing the talent that you get and incrementally layering on kids that develop into higher caliber players than their recruiting ranking suggests. In my mind we've been doing this but its a slow process.
We've hit on a few high 3-star-low 4-star type guys every year (Sampson, Trill, Devito, Hendrix, Jones, Kpogba, Nunn...we've had some bad luck along the way...). We've also landed some guys who either proved to be or developed into better players than their recruiting suggested (Coleman, Cisco, Benson, Bergeron, I'd even throw Vettorello in here).
We've got to continue to do that and then develop the talent that we do land so as to maximize their potential (I think of Iffy as a great example here, mid-level 3-star kid with some late high level interest that we managed to land...by all accounts the kid has worked his butt off and has developed into a high level player).
The other piece is coaching and scheme. Bottom line is the coaches have to be able to win some games every year that they shouldn't from a talent perspective while rarely losing ones they should win. Thats a hard thing to do.

I think we're continuing to do the first part. The few bits of information that have come out suggest guys like Linton, Courtney Jackson Javontae Williams, and Sean Tucker are potential early contributors. Looking at the last few recruiting classes I really like what I see. I think there are high level athletes that just need a little bit of guidance to blossom into great players and there are players with huge potential that just need their development to break the right way and we could have very pleasant surprises. We just have to continue to layer guys on and slowly our talent will improve.

Very thoughtful post. These are points we all try to make but some have a false reality of where we are and and some people aren't patient enough. They just us to fill the classes with top players and put them out their misery. We all would love that but its not realistic. Unfortunately we have to do it the way you said it.

 

[money3189]

Btw our class is not where we want it to be but its deceivingly good and has more depth than we think. Our 3 lowest rated commits have 3 or more P5 offers ( Hough Fuentes Mags) in last years class our bottom 7 commits had no other P5 offers.

 

[Sudano]

Btw our class is not where we want it to be but its deceivingly good and has more depth than we think. Our 3 lowest rated commits have 3 or more P5 offers ( Hough Fuentes Mags) in last years class our bottom 7 commits had no other P5 offers.

Umm...
We have 5 verbal commits for 2021 with no other P5 offers.