The QB is the most important position in all of team sports.

[Forza Azzurri]

Nobody is doubting the offensive line is worse than last year but so is the QB, significantly and is afraid to get hit.

Do you have anything to back that up?

Other than comparing a 4 star QB, who played for a national powerhouse program in high school, to some random zero star QB playing for some random high school in upstate New York?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Thank you !

He's talking about Michigan, not Syracuse. And he's right.

 

[721Comstock]

Nobody is doubting the offensive line is worse than last year but so is the QB, significantly and is afraid to get hit.

If YOU were the MOST-SACKED QB in ALL OF D1 - you'd probably be kinda tired of getting hit too.


He's been sacked 26x so far, and with countless other QB pressures and throw-aways.
That would make ANY QB more than a little gun-shy after 6 games.

Here's the Top 4 (or would that be Bottom 4) most sacked-QB's in the ACC:


Tommy, Bryce Perkins, Jarren Williams, Sam Howell:

QB	135	206	65.5	1,534	7.4	70	12	5	26	142.5
QB	136	209	65.1	1,429	6.8	49	8	6	20	129.4
QB	89	124	71.8	1,074	8.7	54	7	3	19	158.3
QB	123	195	63.1	1,544	7.9	62	15	3	19	151.9

Next highest total is 12.
(although the dual-headed FSU QB has been sacked 22x - 12 & 10.)

Conversely - Football Jesus has only been sacked 3x so far this season.

 

[OrangePA]

it's wild how much times have changed. anyone today with that many interceptions would've drive fans nuts today. He threw interceptions 1 out of every 21 passes. i'm not ragging on him, it's just a different era with different offenses - on the other hand, everyone would be thrilled to have his yards per attempt. no dink and dump, jet sweep passes that aren't passes, nothing cheap

graves is a good example of the passer rating statistic not punishing interceptions enough and punishing completion percentage too much. if he threw 0 interceptions, his rating would've been 151 instead of 142. not that big a difference.

I am pretty sure he was the MVP in three bowl games.

He health really impacted his senior year - a very disappointing year for the Orange. .

He ran and understood the freeze option very well, and placed a lot of pressure on opposing defenses.

I have little doubt that he could play in Baber's offense.

 

[OrangePA]

17th all time in yards per attempt. Damn good company to be in

Bryce petty #4, Matt Johnson #29, RGIII #39, Florence #77. Not ready to give up on this offense, I think this year is an anomaly and I know that's dismissive and easy to say

Passing Yards Per Attempt Career Leaders and Records | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Passing Yards Per Attempt Career Leaders and Records

www.sports-reference.com

Systems are nice and interesting.

But, talent is the ultimate difference maker.

Give DeVito a better OL and he plays better. I think that's pretty obvious.

 

[Millhouse]

Systems are nice and interesting.

But, talent is the ultimate difference maker.

Give DeVito a better OL and he plays better. I think that's pretty obvious.

i dunno, i see a lot BYU and air raid (heavily influenced by BYU) . meyer petrino and kelly in there too

deleone/rogers had a good run here. good landing spot for good black qbs who can run the option but can also throw downfield. low hanging fruit that he plucked and i'm glad they did.

 

[CsonkaStash]

Systems are nice and interesting.

But, talent is the ultimate difference maker.

Give DeVito a better OL and he plays better. I think that's pretty obvious.

No doubt about it and the line is pretty poor but Devito also holds the ball too long. There are times where a quick hit is the play and he is afraid to throw it for some reason. Also, he needs to step up in pocket and/or be more decisive in the pocket and not drop back 20 yards, roll right and throw it away.

His decision making is lacking. People who want the offensive line to take 99 percent of the blame for our sorry offense are wrong. Devito's poor play is not 100 percent contingent on bad OLine play. His stats do not tell the story. I watched the game with NC state multiple times and I know what my eyes see.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

If YOU were the MOST-SACKED QB in ALL OF D1 - you'd probably be kinda tired of getting hit too.


He's been sacked 26x so far, and with countless other QB pressures and throw-aways.
That would make ANY QB more than a little gun-shy after 6 games.

Here's the Top 4 (or would that be Bottom 4) most sacked-QB's in the ACC:


Tommy, Bryce Perkins, Jarren Williams, Sam Howell:

QB	135	206	65.5	1,534	7.4	70	12	5	26	142.5
QB	136	209	65.1	1,429	6.8	49	8	6	20	129.4
QB	89	124	71.8	1,074	8.7	54	7	3	19	158.3
QB	123	195	63.1	1,544	7.9	62	15	3	19	151.9

Next highest total is 12.
(although the dual-headed FSU QB has been sacked 22x - 12 & 10.)

Conversely - Football Jesus has only been sacked 3x so far this season.

Isn't it interesting that, those of use who feel the Oline is the problem, are actually coming up with metrics to support/undermine the case while those who are primarily blaming the QB, or at least equally blaming the QB, have not come up with a single stat to support their position...

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Isn't it interesting that, those of use who feel the Oline is the problem, are actually coming up with metrics to support/undermine the case while those who are primarily blaming the QB, or at least equally blaming the QB, have not come up with a single stat to support their position...

Did you not see the pressure rate post that said we were 49th in the nation? Getting sacked 1.5x per 10 drop backs is bad. But that still leaves 8 drop backs where we are doing nothing.

One OL metric has us ranked 84th out of 130. That isn’t good but it also shouldn’t totally hinder the O. Our passing down sack rate is 103rd, but last year we were 123rd and still found a way to average over 12 ppg vs P5 teams.

Everything is broken. SU has rarely had a strong OL. IMO the 2003 was our best when you look at overall talent and depth. That starting line had a 2nd rounder and a 7th rounder to its credit. If we need to strong OL to have offensive success, then we are in trouble.

 

[kcsu]

No doubt about it and the line is pretty poor but Devito also holds the ball too long. There are times where a quick hit is the play and he is afraid to throw it for some reason. Also, he needs to step up in pocket and/or be more decisive in the pocket and not drop back 20 yards, roll right and throw it away.

His decision making is lacking. People who want the offensive line to take 99 percent of the blame for our sorry offense are wrong. Devito's poor play is not 100 percent contingent on bad OLine play. His stats do not tell the story. I watched the game with NC state multiple times and I know what my eyes see.

He backs up in the pocket because Serva is ending up in his lap. Serva is getting destroyed. He is simply being over powered.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Did you not see the pressure rate post that said we were 49th in the nation? Getting sacked 1.5x per 10 drop backs is bad. But that still leaves 8 drop backs where we are doing nothing.

If I am reading that correctly, it is saying that we are getting pressured on 1 out of every 3 dropbacks. How is that measured? How do they determine what constitutes pressure?

 

[FrancoPizza]

He backs up in the pocket because Serva is ending up in his lap. Serva is getting destroyed. He is simply being over powered.

This is the biggest issue and it's not even close. Serva might as well chop block the nosetackle. We lose 15 yards either way but at least Tommy won't have to backpedal.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Did you not see the pressure rate post that said we were 49th in the nation? Getting sacked 1.5x per 10 drop backs is bad. But that still leaves 8 drop backs where we are doing nothing.

One OL metric has us ranked 84th out of 130. That isn’t good but it also shouldn’t totally hinder the O. Our passing down sack rate is 103rd, but last year we were 123rd and still found a way to average over 12 ppg vs P5 teams.

Everything is broken. SU has rarely had a strong OL. IMO the 2003 was our best when you look at overall talent and depth. That starting line had a 2nd rounder and a 7th rounder to its credit. If we need to strong OL to have offensive success, then we are in trouble.

We rank 127th in terms of sacks allowed this year and we are on pace to give up 52 sacks (and that includes games against our weakest competition so the actual total is likely to be higher as we have averaged almost 7 sacks a game against our P5 compeititon. That would annualize out to almost 84 for the season. Last year, as a comparison, we gave up 37 sacks.

I don't know where you are pulling these stats from but I would love to know how they are compiled...any statistic showing that our Oline is better this year than last year, I would question its accuracy...

 

[upperdeck]

its an arbitrary metric though. if you throw a screen and there is pressure is that really pressure?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We rank 127th in terms of sacks allowed this year and we are on pace to give up 52 sacks (and that includes games against our weakest competition so the actual total is likely to be higher as we have averaged almost 7 sacks a game against our P5 compeititon. That would annualize out to almost 84 for the season. Last year, as a comparison, we gave up 37 sacks.

I don't know where you are pulling these stats from but I would love to know how they are compiled...any statistic showing that our Oline is better this year than last year, I would question its accuracy...

Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts.

Not subjectivity to it. Pretty blank and white.

Not all sacks are on the OL just as not all INTs are on the QB. Our OL is not good. But neither is anything else about our O. We need everything to improve.

 

[OrangePA]

i dunno, i see a lot BYU and air raid (heavily influenced by BYU) . meyer petrino and kelly in there too

deleone/rogers had a good run here. good landing spot for good black qbs who can run the option but can also throw downfield. low hanging fruit that he plucked and i'm glad they did.

Yes, and BYU had Robbie Bosco, Steve Young, Jim McMahon and the Detmer brothers.

Meyer had Alexis Smith, Chris Leak and Tim Tebow, and Petrino had the Brohms and Jackson.

Chip Kelly figured that his system was the answer in Philadelphia. So, he got rid of LeSean McCoy, Desean Jackson and Nick Foles - his three best offensive players.

And he won four games, and was out of football for a year.

I have seen that kind of thing too many times, so I don't get too hung up on systems - though I can appreciate how a certain system can help a player or group of players flourish.

Ultimately it's the player that makes the system not the other way around - in my opinion.

Accumulating talent, either by just getting really good players, or by identifying sleeper talent is the most important thing a coach can do. As Coach Mac said, by the time he got to SU he realized that it's 85% talent and 15% coaching.

Right now, it seems that we do not have enough talent, or the talent we have can be developed, but right now is young and needs some time to mature.

That cycle is always an issue for programs that cannot select talent. They gather and develop sleeper talent and by the time that talent matures, the program has a brief period of success.

Last year might be a reflection of that phenomenon. I think we saw same thing in 2012 under Marrone.

And I definitely saw that way back in 1975 and in 1977 under Frank Maloney.

We need to get beyond that cycle. And it starts with really good and really consistent recruiting.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts.

Not subjectivity to it. Pretty blank and white.

Not all sacks are on the OL just as not all INTs are on the QB. Our OL is not good. But neither is anything else about our O. We need everything to improve.

What is the definition of unadjusted sack rate?

 

[TheCusian]

So we are 49th in being under pressure?

Sorry - missed this. It's non-blitz pressure rate allowed. So yeah, 49th is about average. I think where the OL/QB really struggle is with the blitz. Another reason to be worried about Friday.

On the flip side:

 

[FrancoPizza]

We need to get beyond that cycle. And it starts with really good and really consistent recruiting.

Well it's sobering that 4 years in and Dino's success in this area is only marginally better than his predecessors. We need to sell out to find the QB gems that can compensate for otherwise lackluster recruiting. We need to find the Dungeys and flip the Dykes. Our best teams had variable all around talent, but one thing in common - a very good-to-great college QB.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yes, and BYU had Robbie Bosco, Steve Young, Jim McMahon and the Detmer brothers.

Meyer had Alexis Smith, Chris Leak and Tim Tebow, and Petrino had the Brohms and Jackson.

Chip Kelly figured that his system was the answer in Philadelphia. So, he got rid of LeSean McCoy, Desean Jackson and Nick Foles - his three best offensive players.

And he won four games, and was out of football for a year.

I have seen that kind of thing too many times, so I don't get too hung up on systems - though I can appreciate how a certain system can help a player or group of players flourish.

Ultimately it's the player that makes the system not the other way around - in my opinion.

Accumulating talent, either by just getting really good players, or by identifying sleeper talent is the most important thing a coach can do. As Coach Mac said, by the time he got to SU he realized that it's 85% talent and 15% coaching.

Right now, it seems that we do not have enough talent, or the talent we have can be developed, but right now is young and needs some time to mature.

That cycle is always an issue for programs that cannot select talent. They gather and develop sleeper talent and by the time that talent matures, the program has a brief period of success.

Last year might be a reflection of that phenomenon. I think we saw same thing in 2012 under Marrone.

And I definitely saw that way back in 1975 and in 1977 under Frank Maloney.

We need to get beyond that cycle. And it starts with really good and really consistent recruiting.

Was Coach P successful? How was he able to do so with only 3 OL picked in the Top 100 NFL picks and only one other that made the Top 200? The system maximized what he had to work with in OL talent.

 

[Trueblue25]

Lets adjust play calling to benefit our hurt qb, who’s hurt as a result of poor o line performance and poor coaching decisions (unless someone can tell me he sustained an injury aside from the 4th quarter vs HC).

Tommy’s made bad decisions and missed open players. He’s a red sophomore in his first full season starting. He could not be in a less envious position to learn and adjust. But it’s easiest to point the finger at the quarterback.

 

[TheCusian]

Pitt typically likes to leave his corners on an island - if Narduzzi goes that route this year, it could be our way out of not handling sacks well. See single coverage - chuck it deep

 

[OttoMets]

Pitt typically likes to leave his corners on an island - if Narduzzi goes that route this year, it could be our way out of not handling sacks well. See single coverage - chuck it deep

Hope so! And if they do something else...well, I guess we won't have film on that.

 

[OrangePA]

Was Coach P successful? How was he able to do so with only 3 OL picked in the Top 100 NFL picks and only one other that made the Top 200? The system maximized what he had to work with in OL talent.

He certainly maximized his talent.

Coach DeLeone is one of the all-time great OL coaches who clearly developed the OL talent the program was able to recruit. He is doing the same thing at Baylor these days.

And, to be fair, the fact is that the program under P had some overall talent - not top 10 talent as some on this board have presumed - but some pretty solid overall talent.

So, yes, I agree that a good system can help the talent develop and I think Coach P and Coach D - and Coach Mac for that matter - did that quite well.

 

[TheCusian]

Hope so! And if they do something else...well, I guess we won't have film on that.

thanks, man. good stuff