The running game

[CIL]

Jury should still be out on this one. I thought the performance against an inferior opponent was unacceptable.

Unlike last season, I'm not so sure the OL is to blame. CCSU did not always have 8 in the box - so we should have been able to run the ball more effectively.

I think the biggest issue with the run game right now are the running backs. I am not sold on Strickland as an every down back. He has not shown the vision needed to run successfully in a zone scheme. There were probably 3 or 4 occasions where he had a cutback lane open for potentially large gains and he decided to run right up the guard's butt. This continues to be a problem.

We saw the best and worst of Neal last night. In space he is electric and can fly. He makes the defense account for him whenever he is out on the field and can be used in multiple ways. A way I'm not convinced he should be used in consistently between the tackles. He's not strong enough to fight through arm tackles and like Strickland, does not possess great vision. I like him as a third down back used in draw plays, screens, or motion into the slot.

On the plus side, I was really impressed with what Pierre brings to the table. Granted it was against CCSU's second team, which is probably closer to my alma mater Hamilton in talent than Syracuse. Pierre showed excellent burst for a big kid, and demonstrated instinctive running skills. He had a few cut backs, bounced a couple outside, and found daylight anytime he had some. That's how the zone scheme should work.

We also didn't show a ton in our running game today. We pretty much ran dives in a zone scheme all day with a little read option mixed in.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pierre moves up the depth chart sooner than later. Next week will be a good litmus test with where our running game really stands. We know Shafer is going to attack us all game - and we know cutback lanes will be open a lot. I think we'll know as soon as next week if this is same ol same ol with the running game.

 

[SmilinBob]

Pierre has RB instincts. CC just had to plug the middle and the SU backs just ran straight into it.

 

[Nick44]

Is it just me or is there something to be said about an RB hitting the hole too quickly? It seemed in shotgun when Neal would take the ball up the middle, he hit the line almost immediately with his quickness. His quickness was a detriment.

No patience or hesitation to give the lineman 1-2 seconds to setup the block. Remember when the QB use to line up under center before a hand off? That extra 1-2 seconds it would take to give the RB the ball and then hit the hole makes a huge difference IMO. To an extent, they need to watch film of Leveon Bell.

 

[CIL]

Is it just me or is there something to be said about an RB hitting the hole too quickly? It seemed in shotgun when Neal would take the ball up the middle, he hit the line almost immediately with his quickness. His quickness was a detriment.

No patience or hesitation to give the lineman 1-2 seconds to setup the block. Remember when the QB use to line up under center before a hand off? That extra 1-2 seconds it would take to give the RB the ball and then hit the hole makes a huge difference IMO. To an extent, they need to watch film of Leveon Bell.

Leveon Bell is probably an extreme example. All they have to do is go back to Strickland's TD run.

 

[Scotch]

I was watching the second half with the sound off while my wife watched some awful show, and basically was like who the F is #22?! Kid is explosive. To your point, the competition was awful, but he jumped off the screen. Faster than Strickland, way more powerful than Neal. Would love to see more.

I'm no offensive line guru, but I'm concerned. The backs could have absolutely made better decisions, but we weren't getting any push inside. There should have been a number of runs where our guys aren't even touched for 4-5 yards. That wasn't happening. The physical battle in the trenches felt close to a draw on that side of the ball, which is absolutely shocking.

 

[Toga]

Actually the best RB on the team is Erv, but they're not gonna do that. Pierre has possibilities.

 

[Cuse'91]

I don't think we realize how inferior an opponent CCSU was; broadcasters mentioned we were their 1st ACC opponent and only 2nd FBS opponent in school history. I don't care if they had 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11 player's in the box, an ACC offense should be able to open holes and have their backs be efficient against this team. One issue is the OL, do they look good only on paper/height/weight stats?
Another issue is the RBs, are they all just "ball carrying hybrids," with Pierre being the only "real" running back?

 

[Chip]

It's going to be a season long problem. Neal should be in space, it's clear. He's fast and showed some moves on that TD catch that even ACC teams will have trouble stopping. But giving him the ball on the 4 and expecting a between the tackles TD isn't something I'd be placing bets on.

I hope Pierre gets up to speed soon. Just something about Strickland. Head down running as people have suggested perhaps. It's almost like his fate is sealed the moment he gets the ball.

Next week we expose the whole field instead of just relying on the outside and not showing our hand. Philips and Pierce will be much more involved. We'll see if that helps open up the running game.

 

[cuseguy]

We were led to believe that Strickland had improved based on his summer camp performance. But I just didn't see it last night. From the first time I saw Strickland run in high school I thought he was miscast as a tailback. Kinda reminds of Tebucky Jones, who started at SU as running back but was eventually moved to his more natural position at safety. Its too late to move Strickland, so, unfortunately, we'll likely never see his true talent.

 

[RICuse44]

Something to keep in mind that yesterday's dress rehearsal is the first time this line has ever played together in a game. It takes awhile for them to gel and get used to one another. And that's if they were upper class men.

No doubt there is work to do but I'm a lot more concerned about the backs than the line. Agree moe is a 3rd down back. Someone from the Strickland, Perkins, Pierre group needs to emerge. I wouldn't count out Perkins

 

[billsin01]

We were led to believe that Strickland had improved based on his summer camp performance. But I just didn't see it last night. From the first time I saw Strickland run in high school I thought he was miscast as a tailback. Kinda reminds of Tebucky Jones, who started at SU as running back but was eventually moved to his more natural position at safety. Its too late to move Strickland, so, unfortunately, we'll likely never see his true talent.

Not sure he's the athlete Jones is but his inability to make the most of a run is somewhat similar to Jones.

 

[billsin01]

It's going to be a season long problem. Neal should be in space, it's clear. He's fast and showed some moves on that TD catch that even ACC teams will have trouble stopping. But giving him the ball on the 4 and expecting a between the tackles TD isn't something I'd be placing bets on.

I hope Pierre gets up to speed soon. Just something about Strickland. Head down running as people have suggested perhaps. It's almost like his fate is sealed the moment he gets the ball.

Next week we expose the whole field instead of just relying on the outside and not showing our hand. Philips and Pierce will be much more involved. We'll see if that helps open up the running game.

Yeah, I'm not flipping out about the performance b/c good or bad it's hard to feel like it's much a barometer for the season. But if you take all the times we've seen strickland run the ball, I think it's fair to be concerned about his ability to be the main RB in this offense. I actually thought Neal did a nice job between the tackles -- not when the box is stacked, but thought he moved the pile a couple times to pick up a few yards, and squirted through a small opening to fall forward for a couple yards a few times. More than we were getting out of strickland, IMO.

But ultimately it may be a matter of working Pierre in as the season goes along and utilizing a bit more of Philips in that role as you suggest. Will unquestionably be something to watch b/c I wasn't counting 8 guys very often either.

 

[Killdozer]

Is it just me or is there something to be said about an RB hitting the hole too quickly? It seemed in shotgun when Neal would take the ball up the middle, he hit the line almost immediately with his quickness. His quickness was a detriment.

No patience or hesitation to give the lineman 1-2 seconds to setup the block. Remember when the QB use to line up under center before a hand off? That extra 1-2 seconds it would take to give the RB the ball and then hit the hole makes a huge difference IMO. To an extent, they need to watch film of Leveon Bell.

It's just you.....

 

[Shark58]

give Otto Z the rock

 

[Toga]

give Otto Z the rock

Give Ginger Z the rock.

 

[st_machine]

rb spot should be wide open for competition.best way to get your starters to produce is to make them earn it.

 

[upperdeck]

you can open up the competition but we only have a couple more choices.. Perkins and the Fr are the only other 2 really cause they probably want to RS the other FR. A couple more show up next year and everyone is back so then its a real competition.

i think its 33 scheme 33 oline 33 backs. and it changes almost every play. The only thing I saw was the oline was not getting blown up nor creating push, but we havent seen enough of the scheme to know what they are supposed to be doing and I havent gone back and watched enough BG to know.

 

[007]

you can open up the competition but we only have a couple more choices.. Perkins and the Fr are the only other 2 really cause they probably want to RS the other FR. A couple more show up next year and everyone is back so then its a real competition.

i think its 33 scheme 33 oline 33 backs. and it changes almost every play. The only thing I saw was the oline was not getting blown up nor creating push, but we havent seen enough of the scheme to know what they are supposed to be doing and I havent gone back and watched enough BG to know.

33 scheme?

 

[upperdeck]

33% each from what i can see. We focus on making the blocking look like the run/pass every time its the same to make it harder for the D to read.

 

[007]

33% each from what i can see. We focus on making the blocking look like the run/pass every time its the same to make it harder for the D to read.

Ah, you were talking about percentages of blame. Got it.

FWIW, I don't think "scheme" plays much of a factor in the lack of running game production.

 

[AZOrange]

Ah, you were talking about percentages of blame. Got it.

FWIW, I don't think "scheme" plays much of a factor in the lack of running game production.

Upon further review the linemen look lost and the backs even more lost.

 

[PAcuse]

I agree that some of the blocks where pretty awful, but Strickland and Neal both just ran for the spot the where supposed to and didn't really try anything. We need to move Mo to the slot, retire Reily (I really have a bad feeling he is going to get seriously hurt), and start Pierre at RB. Pierre was the only one really making any type of move. It is nice having Pierce and Elmore in for extra blockers but we sure didn't full them by having them line up next to the tackles and try to run up the middle.
Now having said all of that I have a feeling Dino used maybe 6-8 running plays all game and we will hopefully have 3-4 times as many going forward. I know that everyone thinks saying a team was trying to stop the run is an excuse etc, etc CCSU did go all out to stop the run and why not they can go back and say hey D look at this you stopped a P5 teams running attack and build on it for the rest of the season as they really didn't get much more out of the game.

 

[tep624]

I think Pierre is the best option long-term until our next recruiting class arrives. Strickland is a safety playing RB out of necessity and Neal is a slot receiver playing RB out of necessity.

It's unfortunate what went down with Robert Washington. I think he would have helped out our RB depth chart a lot compared with what we have right now. Averaged 5 ypc as a true frosh for a pretty lousy team.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's too soon for this, but is there a certain point where we just don't expect much from the running game at all?

 

[PAcuse]

It's too soon for this, but is there a certain point where we just don't expect much from the running game at all?

If we don't have it going by LSU I would then just expect us to throw it up 70 times a game and hold Dungey's arm together with some duct tape. c