The truth about Trevor

[two3zone]

We have had this same exact discussion for 3 years in a row - we had an epic collapse 2 years ago - we sucked last year - and everyone knows we are a coin flip away from the NIT this year - when ur 2G is an average shooter jacking insane attempts and has ZERO ability to penetrate that's kinda how things play out in guard oriented college basketball

One things I'd wager on is we are gonna be just fine next year

The 2 guard spot is the LEAST of our worries this year.

 

[FrancoPizza]

He is a disruptive presence defensively, plays the top of the zone well.

I think this is an overstatement. He's a hard worker on defense, but his lateral quickness and anticipatory instincts are average. He's not particularly long either. On our better teams he would be the 8th or 9th man.

 

[Ghost]

The 2 guard spot is the LEAST of our worries this year.

People tell me that every year...and then the worry sets in.

 

[jncuse]

Anyone remember Trevor in Chapel Hill last year in the 1st half? Or vs. Florida State in the Dome?

Some "3pt shooters" are just streaky, and that's who is. Unfortunately I don't think he's a 39% from the 3 for the year type guy. He's more likely to give you more 2/8 games than not, with a few 7/10 games sprinkled in. If people respect his 3pt shot it will open up things for others from deep and himself on the drive. But at this point to expect Cooney to be a consistent 3pt shooter, I think taht ship has sailed, it's not who he is.

Mal looks like a player who you can reasonably expect him to shoot around 40% from deep for the year and consistently make 3-4 3's a game without firing up 11 or 12 (although he will have those games)

An average of 3.5 per game? Over 4 years that would give him the most 3 point field goals in NCAA history..

 

[realorange]

Ok then, other than free throws, what exactly does he do well?

If I have to bother listing what has been said many times it won't matter to you.

 

[two3zone]

People tell me that every year...and then the worry sets in.

And at the end of the year it's proven. Last year PG was our biggest issue. The year before that was pretty much everything but PG, this year it's the 5. Putting all the uncertainty on Cooney this year is extremely lazy and not warranted. Is he an excellent guard? No. Is he the biggest hole on this team? Not even close.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think this is an overstatement. He's a hard worker on defense, but his lateral quickness and anticipatory instincts are average. He's not particularly long either. On our better teams he would be the 8th or 9th man.

The advanced analytics disagree with your assesment. He was second on the team in win shares 2 years ago and first in offensive rating, last year I agree he wasn't as good, but he was still the best defender we had at guard. Again he's not as good as some people thought he would be, but your vastly mistaken in your anaylsis according to the numbers. I think his detractors have just as much emotion bringing him down, as the supporters the so called detractors attack continuosly on this board. If you want to be mad we didn't win by more game one, your anger is pointed at the wrong guy. You really should be upset that Roberson through up a donut on the scoreboard, but too many people let their positive and negative emotions get involved when anaylzing said player.

 

[Ghost]

And at the end of the year it's proven. Last year PG was our biggest issue. The year before that was pretty much everything but PG, this year it's the 5. Putting all the uncertainty on Cooney this year is extremely lazy and not warranted. Is he an excellent guard? No. Is he the biggest hole on this team? Not even close.

I was just joking around that he never turns out to be the least of my worries! Rak and G were far less worrisome.
I've never thought he was the biggest hole on the team during his tenure. My big debate is the 35+ minute issue. Otherwise, normal criticism that's termed hatred. The debate is usually reframed though to make it sound worse. He's a solid player, I have no issue with ever saying that.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So where does Cooney end up in the all-time 3 pointers made list for the school?

 

[Oakland]

Without looking anything up - 4th?

So where does Cooney end up in the all-time 3 pointers made list for the school?

 

[Melancer46]

So where does Cooney end up in the all-time 3 pointers made list for the school?

Looking it up, if he matches the 90 3's he hit in his second year, he'll finish tied for 2nd with Rautins. My guess is he'll finish 2nd or 3rd. He's already 7th all-time right now. He's 57 away from 3rd all-time.

 

[Knicks411]

So where does Cooney end up in the all-time 3 pointers made list for the school?

Looking it up, probably third. He's 60 behind Shumpert. He needs just 20 to pass Devo for 4th, so that seems a lock. Would need 93 to pass Rautins, which could be a stretch if he plays fewer minutes

 

[Melancer46]

Looking it up, probably third. He's 60 behind Shumpert. He needs just 20 to pass Devo for 4th, so that seems a lock. Would need 93 to pass Rautins, which could be a stretch if he plays fewer minutes

*57 behind Shumpert and 90 to tie Rautins after he made 3 in the opener.

 

[Knicks411]

*57 behind Shumpert and 90 to tie Rautins after he made 3 in the opener.

Yup my source wasn't updated yet. What did you use?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Just because center is the most glaring weakness this year doesn't mean that it justifies Cooney playing 35+. Nobody is saying he should be benched, just that more of his minutes should go to KJ and FH.

 

[Melancer46]

Yup my source wasn't updated yet. What did you use?

I probably found the same all-time list as you did (had Cooney in 7th at 189 I believe), but I used Sports-Reference to see Cooney's career numbers.

 

[two3zone]

Just because center is the most glaring weakness this year doesn't mean that it justifies Cooney playing 35+. Nobody is saying he should be benched, just that more of his minutes should go to KJ and FH.

What has Franklin Howard done to deserve to play over a 5th year senior. I'm sure Howard will be a solid player for us but in all reality he's a 94th rated recruit who probably isn't going to shoot as well as Cooney. I'm not understanding this logic.

 

[FrancoPizza]

What has Franklin Howard done to deserve to play over a 5th year senior. I'm sure Howard will be a solid player for us but in all reality he's a 94th rated recruit who probably isn't going to shoot as well as Cooney. I'm not understanding this logic.

Boeheim is that you? :noidea:

You're attempting to make this a black-and-white, either-or scenario. KJ and FH getting more meaningful time in exchange for a reduction of, say, about 10 minutes of floor time for Cooney somehow translates into those subs playing over him? You're asking what has FH done to deserve more time? Well, he's shown enough flashes -- he seems to have a better court awareness and certainly better driving instincts than Cooney in very limited action. FH also seems to have naturally good anticipation on defense with good length at the top of the zone to boot. Getting the younger guys ready to contribute is something that needs to start before ACC play so that we might have a higher ceiling for the post-season. And fwiw, FH only has to make 30-33% of his 3's to "shoot as well" as shaky potatoes.

But what do I know? Yeah, there's always going to be an 8th or 9th man that everyone is clamoring should get more time. We also know JB plays to win now instead of trying to develop the team for a March run. It doesn't mean we can't point these things out for discussion though.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Season hinges on Joseph getting in the game and amounting to something (which is going to happen this year or next) and G playing SF - if Cooney plays 35 mins plus just book ur tickets now for the NIT - he's fine for some minutes but he is a slow white kid that shoots average and has difficulty getting good looks - and throw in the entire world knows to put an athletic defender on him and u can lock him down completely - he's just not athletic enough to run at this elite level - the ACC is simply the best of the best in terms of players and athletes

Who knows maybe we can be elite defensively and go further than I think or Lydon can totally explode

 

[two3zone]

Boeheim is that you? :noidea:

You're attempting to make this a black-and-white, either-or scenario. KJ and FH getting more meaningful time in exchange for a reduction of, say, about 10 minutes of floor time for Cooney somehow translates into those subs playing over him? You're asking what has FH done to deserve more time? Well, he's shown enough flashes -- he seems to have a better court awareness and certainly better driving instincts than Cooney in very limited action. FH also seems to have naturally good anticipation on defense with good length at the top of the zone to boot. Getting the younger guys ready to contribute is something that needs to start before ACC play so that we might have a higher ceiling for the post-season. And fwiw, FH only has to make 30-33% of his 3's to "shoot as well" as shaky potatoes.

But what do I know? Yeah, there's always going to be an 8th or 9th man that everyone is clamoring should get more time. We also know JB plays to win now instead of trying to develop the team for a March run. It doesn't mean we can't point these things out for discussion though.

How many "flashes" have we seen throughout the years of guys who took years to contribute something, or guys who never really contributed?

"seems" to have better court awareness, doesn't mean he does, I'm sure they look at that in practice.
"seems" to have naturally good anticipation on defense, doesn't mean he does. Another thing I'm sure they look at in practice.

I agree, getting younger guys ready to contribute before ACC play is important, but between Cooney, KJ, G, Richardson I think we're pretty well set in not burning anybody out at the 1 or the 2.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm less "Frank Howard needs to play a lot over Cooney" and more "Cooney shouldn't be playing 35 minutes a night".

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Season hinges on Joseph getting in the game and amounting to something (which is going to happen this year or next) and G playing SF - if Cooney plays 35 mins plus just book ur tickets now for the NIT - he's fine for some minutes but he is a slow white kid that shoots average and has difficulty getting good looks - and throw in the entire world knows to put an athletic defender on him and u can lock him down completely - he's just not athletic enough to run at this elite level - the ACC is simply the best of the best in terms of players and athletes

Who knows maybe we can be elite defensively and go further than I think or Lydon can totally explode

G is 100X a better PG than Joseph. It is not even close. Plus if G is at SF, then Richardson sits. Not smart.

 

[RoatanCuse]

I think this year TC has a much bigger chance of becoming irrelevant than last year. MR, TL, or even FH could come in and do really well on offense. As the year progresses and the freshmen become better on defense TC could see declining minutes. And also KJ will be vying for more PT. There are a lot of forces gunning for TC's PT this year!

I certainly hope so. Simply, it would mean our team is improving overall. JB's choice, of course.

 

[realorange]

I am in absolute awe of so many comments from people who have made solid judgment of (take your pick of player) and how they will, should, shouldn't play for the rest of the season. :noidea:

Let's look at how the team and it's players shake out after Atlantis. Then we can start making some better informed opinions.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

G is 100X a better PG than Joseph. It is not even close. Plus if G is at SF, then Richardson sits. Not smart.

Oh, I was kinda hoping we could get Cooney some minutes on the bench - move G and Malachi to their real positions - now we have a PG and SF that can penetrate somewhat which is a huge problem right now - I'm hoping Joseph dramatically improves this season and we have something to play for - with Cooney playing 37 minutes - everyone on the board knows we are playing for a seed in the NIT