There's only been on Coach in the last 35 years

[Alsacs]

I don't believe you'll give the staff credit even if they get to 8 wins. I'm "Missouri" on your fandom. You haven't shown me anything.

No skin at all off my back what one person who I don't know thinks. If you want to question my fandom it is your constitutional right.

 

[Alsacs]

It's not this staff's fault that we aren't discussed on game day. Here is your question, do you think that recruiting is heading in the right direction under this staff? Do you think the defense is heading in the right direction under this staff? Do you think that the offense is heading in the right direction under this staff? My answer is yes to the first two and we will see on the 3rd. no coach or scheme can make up for the lack of talent we had last year. 3 qb's go down. Our speed guys out. It's easy to look creative when you have the players.

The D has been solid under SS for 7 years. The recruiting is not really anything special. I would attribute the uptick to SS being better than Marrone at recruiting and the ACC/IPF helping. I don't think SS is a great recruiter.
I would give the O a complete question mark. This new OC has been too conservative for me, but atleast its better than last year.
I don't think this staff is going to be better than mediocre. Don't get me wrong I want to go 9-3 or better but I don't see it happening with SS.
I don't believe this staff has earned patience. They were hired to continue an upward trajectory. I agree Marrone didn't leave the cupboard full but it wasn't empty and the fact this coach went with McDonald isn't just swept away he has to own that failure.

 

[Fjoinkay]

No skin at all off my back what one person who I don't know thinks. If you want to question my fandom it is your constitutional right.

For me, I don't question your fandom. I have friends who view their teams the way you do, and I don't try to change the way they follow their teams. I just go about it differently, especially with college sports. As much as I want SU football to be featured on Gameday, I believe that its a very big challenge to get to that level. SU had it and lost it like a lot of other programs. It takes time to get back, and it is much more complex than it looks in terms of putting all of the pieces together. I do believe SU will get back. I think being in the ACC helps a ton. I think the improvement in facilities helps. I'm optimistic about Coyle. I believe it helps that SU has been there before even though its been a while now. And I like HCSS and his staff, and I think he can be the guy. I hope so.

I just choose to be optimistic when I follow this coach and these student-athletes. Frankly, last season I was surprised by how upset so many fans were. As soon as T-Hunt went down my expectations went down, mostly due to HCSS's comment in camp last year when he said that he hoped he wouldn't have to play the back-up QBs. He said he liked where they were in their development, but he also strongly implied that they weren't ready. I just thought more people would scale back their expectations as well. When that didn't happen, at times I thought it was important to be a fan and to stick up for the staff and the student-athletes. Their effort last season truly impressed me.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Frankly, last season I was surprised by how upset so many fans were. As soon as T-Hunt went down my expectations went down, mostly due to HCSS's comment in camp last year when he said that he hoped he wouldn't have to play the back-up QBs. He said he liked where they were in their development, but he also strongly implied that they weren't ready. I just thought more people would scale back their expectations as well. When that didn't happen, at times I thought it was important to be a fan and to stick up for the staff and the student-athletes. Their effort last season truly impressed me.

That kind of ignores the failure of the first 5 games, no? Some of those issues were McDonald but not all of them. The D was bad during that stretch. I would agree that we put forth a good effort games 6-10. There is no reason to be upset about those games despite the 1-4 record. However those last 2 games coming off the bye week we were not even competitive.

I think some fans also forget how many disappointments we had in 2013. We weren't competitive against FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, and Northwestern. I didn't expect to come close to winning any of those games but it would have been nice if they weren't over by halftime. Heck Coach P got fired for going 6-6 and having only 2 of those games. Have expectations fallen that far where 2013 is a good season? I mean Marrone went 21-17 his last 3 years with less of those types of games combined over that span.

This year should be a big year for Shafer. He needs to show more than he has.

 

[TheCusian]

That kind of ignores the failure of the first 5 games, no? Some of those issues were McDonald but not all of them. The D was bad during that stretch. I would agree that we put forth a good effort games 6-10. There is no reason to be upset about those games despite the 1-4 record. However those last 2 games coming off the bye week we were not even competitive. I think some fans also forget how many disappointments we had in 2013. We weren't competitive against FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, and Northwestern. I didn't expect to come close to winning any of those games but it would have been nice if they weren't over by halftime. Heck Coach P got fired for going 6-6 and having only 2 of those games. Have expectations fallen that far where 2013 is a good season? I mean Marrone went 21-17 his last 3 years with less of those types of games combined over that span. This year should be a big year for Shafer. He needs to show more than he has.

Yes. Expectations are different now than they were. And with good reason: Grob + outdated facilities + BE being seen as a lesser conference without VaTech and Miami = doom.

We've been climbing out for a loooong time.

Also - what was Marrones record over the first 3? And did he ever lose a QB to season ending injury?

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Yes. Expectations are different now than they were. And with good reason: Grob + outdated facilities + BE being seen as a lesser conference without VaTech and Miami = doom.

We've been climbing out for a loooong time.

Also - what was Marrones record over the first 3? And did he ever lose a QB to season ending injury?

But Marrone pulled us out of that which should reset expectations. We shouldn't be thinking like we are coming off of GRob. Shouldn't we compare Shafer to Marrone or the end of P? And why has Shafer been blowout more often than Marrone? What I am saying is throwing away last year, 2013 shoudl have been a disappointment compared to Marrone and 1999-2004 Coach P. Shafer shouldn't get a cookie for that.

 

[dasher]

The D has been solid under SS for 7 years. The recruiting is not really anything special. I would attribute the uptick to SS being better than Marrone at recruiting and the ACC/IPF helping. I don't think SS is a great recruiter.
I would give the O a complete question mark. This new OC has been too conservative for me, but atleast its better than last year.
I don't think this staff is going to be better than mediocre. Don't get me wrong I want to go 9-3 or better but I don't see it happening with SS.
I don't believe this staff has earned patience. They were hired to continue an upward trajectory. I agree Marrone didn't leave the cupboard full but it wasn't empty and the fact this coach went with McDonald isn't just swept away he has to own that failure.

So, despite going 7-6 in the first year in the ACC, it's that darn 3-9 season where we lost 3 qb's that seals the fate of this coaching staff. The cup board, as far as offensive talent goes was very sparse. The guys we still have that were Marrone's, aren't very talented.

 

[Crusty]

But Marrone pulled us out of that which should reset expectations. We shouldn't be thinking like we are coming off of GRob. Shouldn't we compare Shafer to Marrone or the end of P? And why has Shafer been blowout more often than Marrone? What I am saying is throwing away last year, 2013 shoudl have been a disappointment compared to Marrone and 1999-2004 Coach P. Shafer shouldn't get a cookie for that.

We joined the tougher division of the ACC for Pete's sake. The cupboard was also pretty bare and we had a whole new staff and new offense. Way off base.

 

[Alsacs]

So, despite going 7-6 in the first year in the ACC, it's that darn 3-9 season where we lost 3 qb's that seals the fate of this coaching staff. The cup board, as far as offensive talent goes was very sparse. The guys we still have that were Marrone's, aren't very talented.

We have played 21 games in these first 2 years against P5 competition and have only scored 30 points 2 times in those 21 games.
This year we are 1 for 1, but one of those 2 from the first 2 years was last year versus Wake Forest.
Offense was not bare when the coaching staff adapted the power run in 2013 we were quite effective at moving the ball.
I don't think this staff is the real deal. I don't think my opinion is surprising. I can definitely see the other side. I just think we are going to max out at 7-5 under this staff.
KOII outlined how we were blown out 4 times in 2013(NW, Clemson, GT, FSU) I think that is coaching.

 

[CUSU]

We have played 21 games in these first 2 years against P5 competition and have only scored 30 points 2 times in those 21 games.
This year we are 1 for 1, but one of those 2 from the first 2 years was last year versus Wake Forest.
Offense was not bare when the coaching staff adapted the power run in 2013 we were quite effective at moving the ball.
I don't think this staff is the real deal. I don't think my opinion is surprising. I can definitely see the other side. I just think we are going to max out at 7-5 under this staff.
KOII outlined how we were blown out 4 times in 2013(NW, Clemson, GT, FSU) I think that is coaching.

Can coaches get better?

 

[Fjoinkay]

That kind of ignores the failure of the first 5 games, no? Some of those issues were McDonald but not all of them. The D was bad during that stretch. I would agree that we put forth a good effort games 6-10. There is no reason to be upset about those games despite the 1-4 record. However those last 2 games coming off the bye week we were not even competitive.

I think some fans also forget how many disappointments we had in 2013. We weren't competitive against FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, and Northwestern. I didn't expect to come close to winning any of those games but it would have been nice if they weren't over by halftime. Heck Coach P got fired for going 6-6 and having only 2 of those games. Have expectations fallen that far where 2013 is a good season? I mean Marrone went 21-17 his last 3 years with less of those types of games combined over that span.

This year should be a big year for Shafer. He needs to show more than he has.

The poor start last season did not help matters. I just thought the defense improved a lot under very difficult circumstances with the offense being completely shut down due to all of the reasons we've discussed. I also hoped for an uptick after the late bye, and the effort was there. For me, it just looked like SU was simply depleted and lacked the bodies at that point. I liked the effort. During the 2014 season, once T-Hunt went down and the OC switch happened I downgraded my expectations. I hoped that the offense would improve along with the defense, but I can understand why that didn't happen especially in light of what we now know- the single cadence etc.

The 2013 season was SU's first season in the ACC and HCSS's first season as a head coach as well as T-Hunt's first season taking any meaningful snaps as the QB. SU had a lot on its plate, and they ended up winning a bowl game. I expected the defense to have problems with Georgia Tech's offense, but I was disappointed with the game plan. I think HCSS took credit for that one. FSU and Clemson were loaded, and FSU won the national championship that season so I wasn't really too upset with those results. The Northwestern game was a disappointment, but again SU ended up going bowling and beating Minny in the bowl. I think most people were excited with that result and that raised expectations for 2014. I think some of the former OC's comments raised expectations for 2014 as well. We've gone over 2014 a lot, so I'll just say the raised expectations after 2013 ended up adding to a lot of frustration among a lot of fans during the 2014 season. I lowered my expectations when T-Hunt went down, and I hoped a lot of other people would too. Maybe they did, but they were not the vocal ones on the board, with a few exceptions.

I believe this 2015 team has a shot at a bowl. I think this team is just as capable as the 2013. It will not be easy, but they have good shot. CMU is the only game that matters right now. I do think the young players will grow leaps and bounds these first 3 or 4 weeks, and I hope they can win a few ACC games down the road that no one expects them to win. At the end of the day Coyle decides who is coach. I'm see myself continuing to support HCSS because I like him, and I don't see any major flaws. I also support Coyle. My hope is that this team reaches a bowl game, and the decision to keep HCSS ends up being a simple one. I realize many people disagree with that hope, and I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. At the same time, I'm entitled to my hope and to my opinion. I try to see this from the student-athlete's perspective. They inspire me with their hard work and resilience. Winning at college football isn't easy. I admire their effort and their courage, and as a gesture of gratitude I do my best to encourage them with my support as an alum and a fan.

 

[Alsacs]

Can coaches get better?

I hope so. I don't question the defense being good enough. I think SS has done enough in preparing the defense. I just want to see a real offense. I love Dungey's potential I just need to see points on the scoreboard.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Can coaches get better?

People improve at their jobs all the time. Some people improve more than others. Not every coach improves. I think HCSS has shown the willingness and the ability to adapt, to adjust and to grow. It's humbling and that's one reason why a lot of coaches don't improve or get stuck in old ideas. HCSS seems flexible, humble, and also competitive enough to continue to improve. I would bet that every great coach in any sport would tell you that he or she grew and continued to grow. I think Coach K said that just recently.

 

[orangenauburn]

We have played 21 games in these first 2 years against P5 competition and have only scored 30 points 2 times in those 21 games.
This year we are 1 for 1, but one of those 2 from the first 2 years was last year versus Wake Forest.
Offense was not bare when the coaching staff adapted the power run in 2013 we were quite effective at moving the ball.
I don't think this staff is the real deal. I don't think my opinion is surprising. I can definitely see the other side. I just think we are going to max out at 7-5 under this staff.
KOII outlined how we were blown out 4 times in 2013(NW, Clemson, GT, FSU) I think that is coaching.

Bulls pit

The entire offensive staff left

As did a senior QB to theNFL and experienced receivers and OL

What was left was not ACC material

 

[CUSU]

I hope so. I don't question the defense being good enough. I think SS has done enough in preparing the defense. I just want to see a real offense. I love Dungey's potential I just need to see points on the scoreboard.

I see it as we need to get the offense on track. Match our recent success on defense with a capable offense and we would have a good team, possibly very good. Yes, we've played two of the easier teams on the schedule so far, but the offense is already better from what I've seen. Less penalties, increased organization, less wasted timeouts due to play calling, the players exude more confidence on the field, have seen some flow to the play calls. I hate to mess with our defensive success when all it takes is possibly one piece to fix the other side of the ball. If Lester doesn't pan out, which I still feel he will, then give Shafer some money to go out and get an OC that will get the job done.

To me the jury is still out on whether they are the "real deal", but I do think that they are getting better.

What would make the staff "the real deal"?

What points on the scoreboard to you need this year?

 

[Alsacs]

Bulls pit

The entire offensive staff left

As did a senior QB to theNFL and experienced receivers and OL

What was left was not ACC material

Jerome Smith was 3rd team all-ACC. Hunt and PTG almost ran for 1,000 combined that year.
The rush offense was not bad that year and when the coaches embraced it we improved offensively.

 

[Alsacs]

I see it as we need to get the offense on track. Match our recent success on defense with a capable offense and we would have a good team, possibly very good. Yes, we've played two of the easier teams on the schedule so far, but the offense is already better from what I've seen so far. Less penalties, increased organization, less wasted timeouts due to play calling, the players exude more confidence on the field, have seen some flow to the play calls. I hate to mess with our defensive success when all it takes is possibly one piece to fix the other side of the ball. If Lester doesn't pan out, which I still feel he will, then give Shafer some money to go out and get an OC that will get the job done.

To me the jury is still out on whether they are the "real deal", but I do think that they are getting better.

What would make the staff "the real deal"?

What points on the scoreboard to you need this year?

My opinion is pretty established. I just want to win games as what I would do is not going to happen. Just score points we need to average high 20 PPG.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Bulls pit

The entire offensive staff left

As did a senior QB to theNFL and experienced receivers and OL

What was left was not ACC material

Hunt, Smith, PTG, West, Broyld, Wales, Hickey, Foy, Trudo, and Mackey were absolutely ACC material.

 

[CUSU]

My opinion is pretty established. I just want to win games as what I would do is not going to happen. Just score points we need to average high 20 PPG.

Avg. high 20s, lets see how they do.

 

[Finwad32]

Our offense is going to go through big rough patches this year. It's inevitible with an 18-yr old playing QB. The big question is whether or not the offense is developing. After seeing Dungey vs Wake I still think it's possible to go bowling, but, a healthy dose of patience is going to be necessary at times.

 

[orangenauburn]

Jerome Smith was 3rd team all-ACC. Hunt and PTG almost ran for 1,000 combined that year.
The rush offense was not bad that year and when the coaches embraced it we improved offensively.

And what of QB depth ... Hunt

 

[Alsacs]

And what of QB depth ... Hunt

Drew Allen was brought in. Then Charlie Loeb was a Senior, John Kinder was a QB and then Wilson/Kimble RS'ed.

You said there was nothing on offense. Their was an experienced OL and two really solid RBs. Also, Clark, Kobena, West and McDonald got Bristly Estime.

SS was not taking over a complete rebuild.

 

[orangenauburn]

Drew Allen was brought in. Then Charlie Loeb was a Senior, John Kinder was a QB and then Wilson/Kimble RS'ed.

You said there was nothing on offense. Their was an experienced OL and two really solid RBs. Also, Clark, Kobena, West and McDonald got Bristly Estime.

SS was not taking over a complete rebuild.

They were not ACC material. They were Big East material outside of Smith

 

[TheCusian]

But Marrone pulled us out of that which should reset expectations. We shouldn't be thinking like we are coming off of GRob. Shouldn't we compare Shafer to Marrone or the end of P? And why has Shafer been blowout more often than Marrone? What I am saying is throwing away last year, 2013 shoudl have been a disappointment compared to Marrone and 1999-2004 Coach P. Shafer shouldn't get a cookie for that.

You believe Marrone brought us back? I don't. He left too soon and didn't excel at recruiting (for whatever the reason). He had one very good year and finally figured out a decent college offense almost by accident in 2012. If he'd have stayed for 2-3 more years, I believe it would been built into something sustainable. Expectations get built over time. One season wasn't enough.

On offense, the cupboard was left bare of skill players. Losing the OC hurt.

I'd make the case that Shafer had to start from scratch offensively - based on who left/graduated. He brought continuity to the D. Which is why we did okay in 2013. Which was largely a disappointment. But with a new conference, typically (unfortunate) difficult OOC, and a new QB/System/OC? Okay. 3-9 was the disappointment. And I think Mcit (Shafer's fault) and injuries (out of his control) were the reasons.


No cookies are being handed out. But neither should any pink slips.

 

[TheCusian]

We have played 21 games in these first 2 years against P5 competition and have only scored 30 points 2 times in those 21 games. This year we are 1 for 1, but one of those 2 from the first 2 years was last year versus Wake Forest. Offense was not bare when the coaching staff adapted the power run in 2013 we were quite effective at moving the ball. I don't think this staff is the real deal. I don't think my opinion is surprising. I can definitely see the other side. I just think we are going to max out at 7-5 under this staff. KOII outlined how we were blown out 4 times in 2013(NW, Clemson, GT, FSU) I think that is coaching.

No one is arguing that they are. I'm arguing that judging based on his first two seasons is foolishness. Especially if you punctuate that with something he said at a presser as the reason.